[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[darrenrover]

Can anyone think of a current manager who has successfully made the transition from coach at the same club?

[tkturner]

I think Bowyer has taken the team as far as he can in my opinion...

Listening to his after match interviews I have found him to be pretty uninspiring to be honest and some of our performances (especially Bolton and Bournemouth) have shown no grit or fight...

In my profession as a team manager (whilst being a totally different industry) I am responsible for picking up the unit and individuals when times are bad.

I am also there to motivate, keep more high and drive us on to achieve things which is something I just don't get when I hear Bowyer talking...

Also, it's worth noting that I also have to change things when the results are not great, I expect time to be able to do that but also expect a degree of pressure from my own bosses during that time.

With the Venkys silence we don't know if this is happening...

Could it be will vs skill?

Conduct vs capability?

This team has some talent in it for sure so are the poor performances a conduct problem? And is Bowyer the type of guy who can dish a few stern words out? I'm not convinced...

The following is taken straight from our official website believe it or not!

BLACKBURN ROVERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC PLC

Our football philosophy

At Blackburn Rovers, our philosophy for the game remains constant.

In accordance with our motto of ‘Arte et Labore’ (by skill and hard work), a strong work ethic, dedication, honesty, a sense of team, and an individual and collective desire to be the best, embrace everything our teams represent.

From the First Team and throughout the Academy, we recognise the need to be clear, consistent and committed in our approach to player development. It is essential that training sessions show the relationship between practice and the real game, encouraging players to be independent decision makers.

All Blackburn Rovers players are expected to be able to defend as an individual, to react quickly in transition, offensive and defensive. When playing on the counter-attack, our players are required to make a quick decision whether to retain or play the ball depending on the shape of the opposition at that moment.

Our players are also coached to know how to defend as a team, whether pressing from the front, or dropping off and holding.

All of our teams are encouraged to play out from the back, make the pitch big in possession and control the tempo of the game, playing forward and making passes that take opponents out of the game.

Our players are coached to express themselves at the right time and the appropriate area of the pitch, playing quickly in and around the box and being creative in wide areas. Above all, our teams are expected to display a competitive and winning mentality.

[Jimmy612]

Can anyone think of a current manager who has successfully made the transition from coach at the same club?

Hughton did well at Newcastle before being sacked somewhat harshly after promotion straight back and looking solid enough in the Prem.

Lennon has done well at Celtic (in very easy circumstance)

Sherwood started like a house on fire and it's going down the swanny now (not ready)

Oh and laddio at Barcelona isn't doing a bad job either

I know what you're saying though - it's a very very difficult step to make and few manage it

[1Joerover]

GB has brought some stability into the club, much needed ever since Venkys took over. Yes the performances may be sometimes lack luster but the squad is becoming worse with or without him. Tbh with our current squad we're no where near the level required to challenge for promotion (baring Rhodes). And even with a new manager; given venkys' lack of transfer investment, would struggle to improve the squad much.

Personally, with our current squad, I'm more then happy to be sitting middle table in the Championship. No real risk of relegation and an outside change of playoffs. Not bad for an average team.

[tomphil]

If your a paying supporter you wouldn't be happy with the repetitive nature of the tactics and defeats, far from it !

[Parsonblue]

I thought he was on a rolling contract and it just carries on unless we sack him? Could be wrong tho.

That's correct. If they decide to part company I think they have to pay him 12 months salary.

[jim mk2]

Bowyer's at a tipping point I feel - a fourth successive defeat and another pathetic performance at the weekend and his position will start to become untenable. The likelihood is he will muddle through to the end of the season and then probably realise he is not cut out to be a manager (and not really enjoying it) and offer his resignation.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

GB has brought some stability into the club, much needed ever since Venkys took over. Yes the performances may be sometimes lack luster but the squad is becoming worse with or without him. Tbh with our current squad we're no where near the level required to challenge for promotion (baring Rhodes). And even with a new manager; given venkys' lack of transfer investment, would struggle to improve the squad much.

Personally, with our current squad, I'm more then happy to be sitting middle table in the Championship. No real risk of relegation and an outside change of playoffs. Not bad for an average team.

I understand your point but when a team looks unfit and devoid of ideas then you have to question the manager. This week has proved that he is uninspiring and lacks motivational and tactical nous to make a difference. His substitutions on Wednesday night were predictable and served to make the team's performance worse.

ON Sunday did you see his attempts to raise the team when the equaliser went in. It was laughable.

This team is not great but a strong manager could add that little extra which could gets us higher with better motivation.

[barry_]

76% saying sack and/or review position at the end of the season.

TickTock.

[thenodrog]

Can anyone think of a current manager who has successfully made the transition from coach at the same club?

Swansea?

Bowyer's at a tipping point I feel - a fourth successive defeat and another pathetic performance at the weekend and his position will start to become untenable. The likelihood is he will muddle through to the end of the season and then probably realise he is not cut out to be a manager (and not really enjoying it) and offer his resignation.

Not a chance. Who the hell resigns these days?

[jim mk2]

Not a chance. Who the hell resigns these days?

Holloway at Palace, Zola at Watford, Graham Turner at Shrewsbury. And that's in the past 4 months.

[Brfcrule1]

I've gone for keep till the end of the season then review depending on who might be available in the summer.

I am though very sceptical expecting Venkys to approach Malky McKay is about as realistic as me going out with Emma Willis.

I would be more terrified of them appointing Judan Ali their track record in appointing an experienced manager fills me with no confidence.

I also think clearing the carnage that the 3 incompetent fools before him assembled was always going to take time the 3 portuguese rejects and the rest of the rubbish they signed,and then for the lunes from Pune to offer such lucrative contracts to such rubbish players was adding insult to injury.

The fact the bald headed fool thought Orr deserved a 6 figure salary beggars belief.

For that alone the bald headed one should have been put in the electric chair to suffer.

Even with Best Baldilocks should have been shot and to get rid of them will be difficult to nigh on impossible.

Maybe those on twitter should make it impossible for Orr & Best to ever come back but to get rid will be hard.

Yes GB has made mistakes but he has done a lot right here I also think the owners have to take a huge portion of blame for putting GB under huge pressure for making this out as a promotion season as I believe now that was always unrealistic.

As has been said if the Trotters had sacked Freedman earlier they would never have gone on an unbeaten 3 game run and they have had an awful season up to now.

For me GB should start next season and a decision at Christmas depending where we are should be made then.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I am not one for randomly sacking managers and historically neither are our club. But that is only relevant if you have the right man for the job.

Is Bowyer the right man for the job?

In many ways when appointed he was absolutely perfect for the role, managing and pursuing 'a return to decency agenda', helping restructure the squad and cleansing the cesspit of deceipt that had infiltrated. That was enough for me back then and I was happy he took on the position.

But that was only ever going to be a shorter term role and once the new platform was established, who now best to take the club forward?

Bowyer after working so hard laying the platform? Someone proven and qualified, that could work with what has been put in place?

Lasting credit and thanks to Bowyer for all he has done. A decent job, presumably for a decent amount of money, a job well done at a time when 70% of our employees underperformed with seeming glee.

On the footballing side however, embracing and taking on the new job, he simply took the experiences gleaned from his normal role and adapted them ever so slightly creating what is often an advanced youth team now representing the club at first team level. Once Dunn and Robbo pack up, Williamson is sidelined, and new young players are sourced the average age will lower further.

Restructuring the squad took a lot of skill and expertise hence the thanks to Bowyer. It also takes time and GB is of course correct in saying two or three more windows are needed.

Another year? Two? Mmmm.

I'm niggled. My main worry being that I know what squads are like. Egos, bitching, moaning, back-biting, in fighting, agendas, ulterior motives, you name it. You can only play eleven. Eleven into 26 doesn't go. Try keeping all of them happy over many days, weeks and months. Even though young, this group will still have massive egos, agents whispering, inflated imaginations and growing bank balances.

Therefore a very strong personality is needed to maximise the unit effectively and work the percentages vital at professional level.

Is Bowyer the right personality longer term to take this group forward? Depends on our ultimate goals and aspirations but if wanting a hunger driven, hardened and aggressive unit pushing all out for promotion then a little sadly I don't think so. It would be a nice dream to think a young manager with a young team could enjoy quick success, but somewhat unlikely.

Bowyer is well paid for his work. Let's not feel sorry for anyone.

It's long overdue and now time to get the most suitably qualified applicant available from a world wide market place for one the top 30 jobs available in professional English football.

[tonygreenbank]

Ive just returned from 5 days up north taking in family, friends and footy. The first 2 were great but how the footy let me down! I was left feeling very sad leaving Ewood on Wednesday night as I was shocked how poor the performance was. I had the thought during the game that it was like watching the Reserves in the 60`s and 70`s admittedly with a bigger crowd but thinking that they were wearing blue and white and there were some skilful touches although rarely but they wouldnt get near the first team; then I realised they are the first team!!

Then I looked across at Gary Bowyer and wondered what he was thinking as his team struggled and being outplayed by Bournemouth.

I was going to put my comments in the match thread but Ive just seen this one and the majority of comments reflect my own thinking.

He has done some good things which everyone accepts but is he the manager to take the club to the next level namely promotion candidates? I dont think so. He does not appear to be an inspirational figure or have the charisma which stands him out at least with the senior professionals in the team.

I think the playing staff are better than a mid-table position and I`m sure a more experienced manager with motivational skills would get that extra from many of them.

This of course begs two questions:

Firstly, who would advise the owners as to the qualities of another manager as recent history doesn`t look hopeful? Secondly, which managers with motivational skills would want the job?

My feeling is that Rovers is still a big name in football and an attractive prospect to football people.I remain confident that such people are out there!

Gary Bowyer is a decent man and has been a good servant to Rovers. He deserves to remain with the club in an Academy role or some other capacity.

I am undecided when the change should happen but i firmly believe that it should in time for next season.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

The following is taken straight from our official website believe it or not!

BLACKBURN ROVERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC PLC

Our football philosophy

At Blackburn Rovers, our philosophy for the game remains constant.

In accordance with our motto of ‘Arte et Labore’ (by skill and hard work), a strong work ethic, dedication, honesty, a sense of team, and an individual and collective desire to be the best, embrace everything our teams represent.

From the First Team and throughout the Academy, we recognise the need to be clear, consistent and committed in our approach to player development. It is essential that training sessions show the relationship between practice and the real game, encouraging players to be independent decision makers.

All Blackburn Rovers players are expected to be able to defend as an individual, to react quickly in transition, offensive and defensive. When playing on the counter-attack, our players are required to make a quick decision whether to retain or play the ball depending on the shape of the opposition at that moment.

Our players are also coached to know how to defend as a team, whether pressing from the front, or dropping off and holding.

All of our teams are encouraged to play out from the back, make the pitch big in possession and control the tempo of the game, playing forward and making passes that take opponents out of the game.

Our players are coached to express themselves at the right time and the appropriate area of the pitch, playing quickly in and around the box and being creative in wide areas. Above all, our teams are expected to display a competitive and winning mentality.

Can I have my money back then?

[thenodrog]

The fact the bald headed fool thought Orr deserved a 6 figure salary beggars belief.

For that alone the bald headed one should have been put in the electric chair to suffer.

Even with Best Baldilocks should have been shot and to get rid of them will be difficult to nigh on impossible.

Maybe those on twitter should make it impossible for Orr & Best to ever come back but to get rid will be hard.

Unless of course there was a %age slice for Baldilocks and his fat bum chum.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Ive just returned from 5 days up north taking in family, friends and footy. The first 2 were great but how the footy let me down! I was left feeling very sad leaving Ewood on Wednesday night as I was shocked how poor the performance was. I had the thought during the game that it was like watching the Reserves in the 60`s and 70`s admittedly with a bigger crowd but thinking that they were wearing blue and white and there were some skilful touches although rarely but they wouldnt get near the first team; then I realised they are the first team!!

Then I looked across at Gary Bowyer and wondered what he was thinking as his team struggled and being outplayed by Bournemouth.

I was going to put my comments in the match thread but Ive just seen this one and the majority of comments reflect my own thinking.

He has done some good things which everyone accepts but is he the manager to take the club to the next level namely promotion candidates? I dont think so. He does not appear to be an inspirational figure or have the charisma which stands him out at least with the senior professionals in the team.

I think the playing staff are better than a mid-table position and I`m sure a more experienced manager with motivational skills would get that extra from many of them.

This of course begs two questions:

Firstly, who would advise the owners as to the qualities of another manager as recent history doesn`t look hopeful? Secondly, which managers with motivational skills would want the job?

My feeling is that Rovers is still a big name in football and an attractive prospect to football people.I remain confident that such people are out there!

Gary Bowyer is a decent man and has been a good servant to Rovers. He deserves to remain with the club in an Academy role or some other capacity.

I am undecided when the change should happen but i firmly believe that it should in time for next season.

Whole heartedly agree with this but think the change should be sooner rather later. People who say give him to the end of the season but what will this achieve. It just puts off the inevitable. If he wins a few more games what then? Another season of bland unimaginative football at best.

It is best to make the decision now, get an experienced person in to assess strengths and weaknesses then they have the summer to prepare for next season.

The problems with keeping them are:-

i. will a new man want his predecessor working under him?

ii.if he returns to his old job, do we sack his replacement for that job or do we stay loyal to him as well?

[ABBEY]

Ive just returned from 5 days up north taking in family, friends and footy. The first 2 were great but how the footy let me down! I was left feeling very sad leaving Ewood on Wednesday night as I was shocked how poor the performance was. I had the thought during the game that it was like watching the Reserves in the 60`s and 70`s admittedly with a bigger crowd but thinking that they were wearing blue and white and there were some skilful touches although rarely but they wouldnt get near the first team; then I realised they are the first team!!

Then I looked across at Gary Bowyer and wondered what he was thinking as his team struggled and being outplayed by Bournemouth.

I was going to put my comments in the match thread but Ive just seen this one and the majority of comments reflect my own thinking.

He has done some good things which everyone accepts but is he the manager to take the club to the next level namely promotion candidates? I dont think so. He does not appear to be an inspirational figure or have the charisma which stands him out at least with the senior professionals in the team.

I think the playing staff are better than a mid-table position and I`m sure a more experienced manager with motivational skills would get that extra from many of them.

This of course begs two questions:

Firstly, who would advise the owners as to the qualities of another manager as recent history doesn`t look hopeful? Secondly, which managers with motivational skills would want the job?

My feeling is that Rovers is still a big name in football and an attractive prospect to football people.I remain confident that such people are out there!

Gary Bowyer is a decent man and has been a good servant to Rovers. He deserves to remain with the club in an Academy role or some other capacity.

I am undecided when the change should happen but i firmly believe that it should in time for next season.

We said the said the same that it was like an 80's reserve game on weds night..

Overall there should of been a players apology and them handing match fees back because they stole money by pretending to pros's .

[Gav]

No point sacking Bowyer, he's not the problem in my opinion, getting rid of Venkys is the only way the club can progress.

Yes Bowyers tactics are suspect, his substitutions bizarre at times, but he's just carried us through a very turbulent period in the clubs history after Keant, Appleton and Berg, and deserves a lot of credit for that.

But with those idiots in Pune at the helm we’re going nowhere fast, so whilst Bowyer is of limited ability, I think I’d rather have him than let Shelfy and those fools choose a replacement.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I've gone for keep till the end of the season then review depending on who might be available in the summer.

I am though very sceptical expecting Venkys to approach Malky McKay is about as realistic as me going out with Emma Willis.

I would be more terrified of them appointing Judan Ali their track record in appointing an experienced manager fills me with no confidence.

I also think clearing the carnage that the 3 incompetent fools before him assembled was always going to take time the 3 portuguese rejects and the rest of the rubbish they signed,and then for the lunes from Pune to offer such lucrative contracts to such rubbish players was adding insult to injury.

The fact the bald headed fool thought Orr deserved a 6 figure salary beggars belief.

For that alone the bald headed one should have been put in the electric chair to suffer.

Even with Best Baldilocks should have been shot and to get rid of them will be difficult to nigh on impossible.

Maybe those on twitter should make it impossible for Orr & Best to ever come back but to get rid will be hard.

Yes GB has made mistakes but he has done a lot right here I also think the owners have to take a huge portion of blame for putting GB under huge pressure for making this out as a promotion season as I believe now that was always unrealistic.

As has been said if the Trotters had sacked Freedman earlier they would never have gone on an unbeaten 3 game run and they have had an awful season up to now.

For me GB should start next season and a decision at Christmas depending where we are should be made then.

I always thought I was against capital punishment until the genius of Steve Keane changed my mind.

In fact, I would pay a six figure sum for Percy Wetmore to use the dry sponge effect...

[Mike E]

Whole heartedly agree with this but think the change should be sooner rather later. People who say give him to the end of the season but what will this achieve. It just puts off the inevitable. If he wins a few more games what then? Another season of bland unimaginative football at best.

It is best to make the decision now, get an experienced person in to assess strengths and weaknesses then they have the summer to prepare for next season.

The problems with keeping them are:-

i. will a new man want his predecessor working under him?

ii.if he returns to his old job, do we sack his replacement for that job or do we stay loyal to him as well?

We sack that arse Hendry, ofc! Problem solved!

[lraC]

Oh does it? I thought it showed that no one is daft enough to even think about matching the ludicrous fee that we paid for him, thus, no where else to go.

Trust me if anyone had come in with a 'decent' bid for Rhodes he would have been long gone. Unfortunately for us he isn't worth half of what we paid for him - something I've been saying since about December 2012.

Eight million pounds what on earth were they thinking

I agree that we paid to much for him, but think of this. Without him last season, we would almost certainly have been relegated. Given this, possibly paying £3m to much, might not be as bad as it seems.

[lraC]

Just a thought, would you rather be a Wolves fan right now, who go in to todays game on the back of a streak of 8 wins in a row, or a Rovers fan, given our current slump? I use Wolves as an example, as they slipped out of the top flight, at the same time as us and had a similar season to us, last year.

[tomphil]

That's why it's so difficult at the min because the man we are rightly questioning and the striker a few love to moan about are probably the only reasons we ain't under Wolves right now.

[lraC]

That's why it's so difficult at the min because the man we are rightly questioning and the striker a few love to moan about are probably the only reasons we ain't under Wolves right now.

Spot on, hence the question.