[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Not had a season ticket for 3 seasons now, but will probably get one next. Glory hunter that I am!!

Likewise.

Next season could be promising IF we hold this side together over Summer.

[Stuart]

Bolton missed out on the play-offs on the last day last season and struggled to recover their form into this.

I think we are going to spend most of the Summer worrying about what Venkys do and whether we can hold out against offers for our better players.

[rhodie]

Just hoping we can do a deal with United to keep Keane either permanently or for the rest of next season.

[Husky]

I'm pretty sure most Burnley fans would have accepted mid-table mediocrity at the start of the season, yet we all know where they've ended up.

[Husky]

Bolton missed out on the play-offs on the last day last season and struggled to recover their form into this.

I think we are going to spend most of the Summer worrying about what Venkys do and whether we can hold out against offers for our better players.

Probably.

I'm fairly sure there isn't overwhelming evidence to suggest teams that finish pretty high in the league always better themselves the next season.

And even if there was, surely it would just end up the same with all the clubs getting better so maintaining the status quo.

I wouldn't expect the so-called big clubs to be as bad next season; Leeds, Birmingham (if they don't go down) etc. There's another supposed big club coming up in Preston North End Wolverhampton Wanderers. Wigan, QPR or whoever doesn't go up will be stronger.............teams coming down from the Prem can be hit and miss - but they're not normally Yeovils.

We're not assured of keeping our current team together either. Keane might end up back at Man Ure. God knows what is gonna happen.

As I and other have said before several times, the league this year has been poor, I don't think it's such a great achievement to have ended up 'slightly better than Bournemouth and not as good as Brighton'. I've gone to Ewood thinking we could have won against any of the teams that came...........there wasn't anything to be scared of. Alas for me the season has ended in promising yet ultimate failure.

[TBTF]

Probably.

I'm fairly sure there isn't overwhelming evidence to suggest teams that finish pretty high in the league always better themselves the next season.

And even if there was, surely it would just end up the same with all the clubs getting better so maintaining the status quo.

I wouldn't expect the so-called big clubs to be as bad next season; Leeds, Birmingham (if they don't go down) etc. There's another supposed big club coming up in Preston North End Wolverhampton Wanderers. Wigan, QPR or whoever doesn't go up will be stronger.............teams coming down from the Prem can be hit and miss - but they're not normally Yeovils.

We're not assured of keeping our current team together either. Keane might end up back at Man Ure. God knows what is gonna happen.

As I and other have said before several times, the league this year has been poor, I don't think it's such a great achievement to have ended up 'slightly better than Bournemouth and not as good as Brighton'. I've gone to Ewood thinking we could have won against any of the teams that came...........there wasn't anything to be scared of. Alas for me the season has ended in promising yet ultimate failure.

I agree with you Husky.

I think it was John Williams who always used to say that the size of your payroll broadly equates to where you end up in the league at the end of the season. In that respect we have failed abysmally-so too have QPR in only making the play offs though they might redeem themselves yet. You cannot spend £30million on your playing squad wages and never having been in the top 6 at any stage of the season and call it a success-progress yes, but not a success. Burnley have made a mockery of us-and others to be fair.

This is a shocking division in reality and never having made the top 6 is poor in the final analysis. Top 6 in this standard with what we are spending is a minimum requirement and yet we ain't been in there at any point over 46 games. I'd be happy to be proved wrong on Saturday with an unreal sequence of results.

To think we have missed out again , will record another huge loss for the season , get all these loan players we sent out back again in Summer and start all over again takes some dose of optimism .

[TBTF]

John Williams ensured astuteness. Who has been assuring our astuteness prior to Bowyer's signings? The cretins that built our payroll up on dross have long gone. What can the current staff do about it now other than try to get those players off the books or at least put them to good use on their disproportionate wages?

Contrary to your viewpoint I'd say we've done well at getting most of the garbage out of Ewood, even if only temporary. I think the terminations in contracts signify what terrible decisions were made in the past to bring these players in. No doubt we've made serious losses but you can only hope we've lost less than we would have if they'd have seen their contracts out.

Yes but we still had the wherewithal to be able to bring in 19 players under GB (on top of the crap we had) some of which were a complete waste of wages eg Marrow, Dabo, Songo . That is a luxury that not many in this league could work on especially the season after you have just lost £36 million !!

Like I said, progress yes , success I don't think so. But its all about opinions.

Our players will have cost us £60 million for the last 2 seasons in a bang average division where we haven't even been in the top 6 . That's about 5 times what Burnley and many others would have spent in the same period. We are entitled to expect better. I bet even Venkys think they should have better for their money but that's another story for another thread and the reap what they sow.

[phili]

John Williams ensured astuteness. Who has been assuring our astuteness prior to Bowyer's signings? The cretins that built our payroll up on dross have long gone. What can the current staff do about it now other than try to get those players off the books or at least put them to good use on their disproportionate wages?

Contrary to your viewpoint I'd say we've done well at getting most of the garbage out of Ewood, even if only temporary. I think the terminations in contracts signify what terrible decisions were made in the past to bring these players in. No doubt we've made serious losses but you can only hope we've lost less than we would have if they'd have seen their contracts out.

Not really, most of the players we have loaned out, we are paying over 75% of their salaries, plus the 19 new players signed. We paid up Murphy and a few others contracts to fund the 19 new players. At this moment I wouldn't be surprised if our wage budget this year hasn't actually increased on last years.

To fund our wage budget you have got to say a playoffs position is a minimum target each season even if it is to increase our media income (playoff teams have a larger number of broadcast games etc)

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I think the issue here is that our wage budget doesn't actually equate to quality players on the pitch which is probably unlike other teams. We've probably got the likes of Leon Best, Rochina etc on a fortune. That's not Bowyer's fault. He's clearly trying to get the deadwood out. With the wages we're paying we should be expecting a top half finish if it wasn't for the fact that many of those contracts were agreed by the clowns in charge before GB took control.

[Neal]

It's tough to work out how well we're going to do next season, a lot will depend on the form of Gestede and Rhodes, if we can stay injury free (e.g. Burnley) and how well we start. I know a lot of people look at QPR and Wigan if they don't go up, personally I think Rovers best starting 11 is better than both but I will refrain from discussing how I feel we've underachieved and missed opportunities etc... If this team stays together & Gaz can find the courage to attack teams then we're more than capable of promotion. Next season can't be another of ifs and buts... It's time to go for it Gaz, a full season and a bit in charge... You will be judged.

[47er]

And of course there is no point. You can speculate all you want of course. Nobody can stop you, but you do have to know that in our case it's unlikely to happen even were bowyer sacked. They haven't got much right so far so with or without the suspicion or suggestion of agent involvement Stuart talks about it's highly improbable that a good sensible appointment would be made.

We are singing out of the same hymn book here Gumboots! My response is directed at those who continue to ask that stupid question.

[blueboy3333]

It's tough to work out how well we're going to do next season, a lot will depend on the form of Gestede and Rhodes, if we can stay injury free (e.g. Burnley) and how well we start. I know a lot of people look at QPR and Wigan if they don't go up, personally I think Rovers best starting 11 is better than both but I will refrain from discussing how I feel we've underachieved and missed opportunities etc... If this team stays together & Gaz can find the courage to attack teams then we're more than capable of promotion. Next season can't be another of ifs and buts... It's time to go for it Gaz, a full season and a bit in charge... You will be judged.

we've scored 27 goals in the last 11 games. Why do you think the attacking side of our game is the problem?

[Neal]

we've scored 27 goals in the last 11 games. Why do you think the attacking side of our game is the problem?

I'm not saying it is, what I'm implying is that this team performs best when it's allowed to attack... Surely the performance against Yeovil and contrasting performances at Birmingham and Charlton prove that?

[Steve Moss]

Regardless what this last week brings, Gary Bowyer has more than earned another season as manager.

[patrickvalery]

Yes but we still had the wherewithal to be able to bring in 19 players under GB (on top of the crap we had) some of which were a complete waste of wages eg Marrow, Dabo, Songo . That is a luxury that not many in this league could work on especially the season after you have just lost £36 million !!

I'm not sure i'd say that was a luxury. More a necessity really. The squad, whether we like it or not, needed revamping. Too many bad eggs and too much disillusion to turn it all around. Yes Bowyer has brought in 19 of his own players, but as you mentioned above, most have been extremely low risk and a good few notches down the pay scale. By my reckoning if Best is on £35k p/w and we are paying 75% of that, then its a saving of £8750 pw. I wouldn't mind betting the three names above don't command much more than that between them. Marrow is a lower league plodder, Songo was unattached and Dabo is a loanee who may even be paid by his parent club for all we know.

I will happily admit that any money spent on the likes of Feeney and Varney is a waste. But on the whole i think that Bowyer has done a sterling job of getting shut of big earners and replacing them with much cheaper and more fit for purpose options. Even if it is temporarily in a lot of cases.

I've heard a good few posters say that Bowyer has been very fortunate to have been allowed to sign these players. I can't say i really see it that way. A good manager will always push his superiors to bring in new talent. Thats part of the job imo. If the fact we have brought these players in is to be criticised then it should be directed at those who agree to Bowyers requests. He has to take direction from them regarding finances. If they say its possible to sign Mr X Mr Y and Mr Z and its crippling us then they should shoulder the blame not Bowyer. He can't be expected to lift a resigned squad, get them fit and motivated, plan his tactical approach to twice weekly matches and then in the evenings mull over our balance sheet. And lets be perfectly honest, if his 19 players hadn't come in then we would probably be looking at relegation rather than an outside chance of making the play offs.

This 'fortunate' tag which he seems to have been labelled with can be viewed two ways. Many would say Bowyer was fortunate to be given his opportunity at a good size club with very good facilities. Thats true. But rewind back to last summer and i'd bet an awful lot of managers weren't casting an envious eye in his direction. The Rovers hot seat had become one of the least attractive in the land. Bowyer has grasped the nettle and, although its now ridiculed by many of the clubs own fans who craved it so much, he has steadied the ship. Tackled in part a ludicous wage bill and assembled a squad with pockets of talent and pockets of potential. And to cap it all off he has finished the season exceptionally close to a play off spot. Okay, an experienced manager might have got those precious few extra points which would see us sitting in the play off positions, but that ship has sailed. I believe that all things considered he has made a decent fist of it and to change now would put a spanner in the works.

I very rarely comment on specific match debate because i just can't get up to Ewood very often. When you factor in accomodation, fuel and a belly full of beer it probably costs me the equivalent of a season ticket each time i come up. I fully accept that this means i don't get the bigger picture which those who attend week in week out can see. As such, these dour performances which many speak of isn't played out in front of me and i probably don't feel the full frustration which others do. I guess its these question marks which hang over the man for many fans. Because from where i'm sitting, we have seen a good number of examples where this squad looks like they are verging on becoming a decent little side. Its for that reason i want Bowyer to be given until next Christmas at least.

[thenodrog]

I think the issue here is that our wage budget doesn't actually equate to quality players on the pitch which is probably unlike other teams. We've probably got the likes of Leon Best, Rochina etc on a fortune. That's not Bowyer's fault. He's clearly trying to get the deadwood out. With the wages we're paying we should be expecting a top half finish if it wasn't for the fact that many of those contracts were agreed by the clowns in charge before GB took control.

Indeed so. Short of a few horses heads in a few beds we can't erase the wrongs done in the past until those stupid and maliciously drawn up contracts run down. I might be way wrong but seems apparent to me that the club has drawn a final line under some flaky members of the squad last summer and moved forward from there, Hence the new signings.

Difficult to see what else could have been done other than to close the doors to rectify the wrongs and scams of the recent past. I think thindians have learnt a hard lesson.

[mattjansen]

Although a little to late we have over the last eleven played won five and drawn six, and against the likes off QPR, Leicester, Brighton and Ipswich. Also playing the likes of millwall,brum,Yeovil,Sheffield aint easy when they are fighting for their lives. Hopefully GB can get them to start next season like we end this. The longest streak since 94/95

[den]

I'd like an explanation too, as I must have also missed it.

None so blind as those who won't see.

In effect, the owners have given bowyer around £16m to spend on fees and wages, while clearing out a whole load of players no-one wanted. What would Saxton, Lee, Furphy etc have thought about that?

[AggyBlue]

In effect, the owners have given bowyer around £16m to spend on fees and wages, while clearing out a whole load of players no-one wanted. What would Saxton, Lee, Furphy etc have thought about that?

The owners are backing the manager and you're complaining

[blueboy3333]

I'm not saying it is, what I'm implying is that this team performs best when it's allowed to attack... Surely the performance against Yeovil and contrasting performances at Birmingham and Charlton prove that?

Not the Yeovil match again! The only match in the last 11 when we haven't scored at least 2 is once again used as the stick to beat Bowyer. Maybe it was just a bad performance against a team fighting for their lives. It happens, just as it happened to Wigan at the weekend.

[imy9]

None so blind as those who won't see.

In effect, the owners have given bowyer around £16m to spend on fees and wages, while clearing out a whole load of players no-one wanted. What would Saxton, Lee, Furphy etc have thought about that?

I have seen that argument from yourself a number of times. I would say that compared to last season:

Spurr

Keane/Kane

Conway

Marshall

Cairney

Evans

Gestede

are all first 11 players and to integrate that number of player into a team in such a short of space of time is pretty impressive. As well as taking a team almost relegated last season to the brink of the playoffs!

Possibly the reason why the last 11 games have been better than before? Players gelling together perhaps.

£16 million on wages and fees?

There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics!

[DE.]

None so blind as those who won't see.

In effect, the owners have given bowyer around £16m to spend on fees and wages, while clearing out a whole load of players no-one wanted. What would Saxton, Lee, Furphy etc have thought about that?

You're still not explaining where you're getting the £16m figure from.

[Majiball]

And the reason why debate on here is so fruitless:

http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/30280-brum-away/page-27#entry1507868

People cannot remember conversations they had with the same person not 3 days ago.

[den]

You're still not explaining where you're getting the £16m figure from.

In a reply to you on the brum thread

http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/30280-brum-away/page-27#entry1507868

You will note that I said it's a silly game arguing wage bills, but the point remains that Bowyer hasn't had any of the interference that Berg or Appleton had, only had to sell one player that he would have played and was given possibly the second highest amount of cash to invest, out of the whole league. He decided to spend that outlay on 19 different players,

[Black Burn]

In a reply to you on the brum thread

http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/30280-brum-away/page-27#entry1507868

You will note that I said it's a silly game arguing wage bills, but the point remains that Bowyer hasn't had any of the interference that Berg or Appleton had, only had to sell one player that he would have played and was given possibly the second highest amount of cash to invest, out of the whole league. He decided to spend that outlay on 19 different players,

Isn't that offset by letting go of more than 12 players from our club, especially the big wage earners such as Pederesen, Murphy, Nuno Gomes, Martin Olsson, etc? And the Portuguese contingent.

So that 16 million pounds in wages is offset by the 16 million we have to pay these big wage earners and other terminated contract players anyway. So he didn't really invest anything, everything was brought right back to zero.

Sorry, accounts isn't my strong point, so I have difficulty in following you here.

If he brought in an additional 19 players without getting rid of anybody, you might have a point. But he got rid of more than 12 players, terminated contracts, etc. That means we saved on those wages anyway. That really isn't a capital for investment, is it?