[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[Mike Graham]

If I was a Yeovil fan and saw their performance described as "fighting for their lives" I would be a bit unhappy.

There was no fight, or anything else, in Yeovil that night.

And no fight from Rovers. A pathetic performance followed by yet more Keanesque comments from GB.

[AllRoverAsia]

This is not a go at Bowyer but more the difficulty faced by any Manger in building a team in the abscence of job security. Makes ''Forward planning'', ''building for next season'' and ''they can see what we are trying to do'' nonsense:

http://www.aefca.eu/sites/default/files/LMA%20End%20of%20Season%20Statistics%202012-13.pdf

[Waggy76]

If the owners really want promotion , they have to appoint a new manager ...

Who ?.

advertise the position and see who applies ....I suspect there will be better suited applicants then the present incumbent. ?

Nice guy Bowyer but unfortunately just not up to the job as manager....

Our squad is flawed but not as flawed as the league , we should be in a play off position now !,

There is so little quality in the league it is not true !

[Mike E]

Fair enough Mike. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to put forward a different viewpoint. The bottom line to all this is the finances though. Seems to me, the one thing that the supporters of this slowly, slowly approach never comment on is the finances.

I agree with you on that tbh. But if others are like me then it's because of 2 things:

Not being very bright with finance stuff.

Just being glad that we appear that much better on the pitch (which is, after all, what I pay for).

[Baz]

Ok for all those who said review at the end of the season...

Whats your opinion now?

Also, for those that said back... What are your expectations for next season?(automatic promotion, play-offs, same as now, etc) how long into next season would you want before you reviewed that decision? (Some have said christmas, but by then it may be too late if we get off to a poor start and you are expecting automatic promotion).

[Roverthechimp]

Fair enough Mike. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to put forward a different viewpoint. The bottom line to all this is the finances though. Seems to me, the one thing that the supporters of this slowly, slowly approach never comment on is the finances.

In my opinion the owners have probably been told some truths - namely that they have spunked 55 million on bad advice and blew the chance of a quick recovery last season. Erase the nominal sum of 50 million from the equation (what promotion will instantly wipe off the debt) and look at the current business situation and suddenly the approach makes more sense. Build a squad from the ground up based on a realistic upper championship budget (ie turnover + maximum owner input) and try to recreate the earlier model of signing young/damaged players and selling 1 per season when their value has increased to supplement turnover. Meanwhile reserve another 8 million to payoff contracts IF ffp becomes a genuine threat without weakening the "current" business model.

In this situation Bowyer is doing a fantastic job. Few of us were overjoyed with the signings of Gestede, Marshall, Cairney, Evans, Conway, Spurr or Killgallon but i'm guessing each and every one of them has increased in value by 250 - 750,000 and Gestedes value will soar if he continues current form next season. We are close to playoffs and form is such that a push at automatic promotion can't be ruled out next season and the season after that whilst the annual losses will be lower each year whilst turnover should increase as the team becomes more competitive, more attractive for tv matches and the stench slowly dissipates. Failing promotion sell the player whose value has increased the most and who can be replaced by signing the next batch of "hopefuls".

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Ok for all those who said review at the end of the season...

Whats your opinion now?

Also, for those that said back... What are your expectations for next season?(automatic promotion, play-offs, same as now, etc) how long into next season would you want before you reviewed that decision? (Some have said christmas, but by then it may be too late if we get off to a poor start and you are expecting automatic promotion).

I'm one of those to vote to review at season end.....it's now back in the hands of fools....we ain't going up, they are covering losses, they have no concept of English football.....the baby is in an incubator, the Loons alone know, but do they????

[Stuart]

We can only judge Bowyer's first season as a successful one, if he gets a fair crack at a second.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I'm one of those to vote to review at season end.....it's now back in the hands of fools....we ain't going up, they are covering losses, they have no concept of English football.....the baby is in an incubator, the Loons alone know, but do they????

Some improvement then! Last time they left the baby in the conservatory with the Alsatians, while Scudamore and co were Haringey Social Services..

I worry too, but as none of us have the foggiest idea what the plan is, going forward, we don't even know what to think. The next few weeks should reveal a bit more though...

[perthblue02]

Expected to finish mid table at the beginning of the season and despite two or three results going against us looking like we will finish 8th, so on expectations done better than expected.

Would like to see someone experienced alongside him to help address his shortcomings and put a barrier between him and his boys ,and a leader on the pitch brought in if funds allow. Pretty confident he will come back from Pune with a enhanced rolling contract and if the managerial set up stays as is with no experience brought in it really is a case of wait and see regarding learning from mistakes.

If it is to be believed that he is in sole control of playing matters then on balance him and his scouting team have done well, as the decent players brought in offset the squad fillers. No doubt the increase in certain players values will be met well in Pune.

Unfortunately if the play safe philosophy was one done with the sole intention of hitting a top ten target then that is a major concern, to many still serving self interests at Ewood .

[Steve Moss]

Ok for all those who said review at the end of the season...

Whats your opinion now?

Also, for those that said back... What are your expectations for next season?(automatic promotion, play-offs, same as now, etc) how long into next season would you want before you reviewed that decision? (Some have said christmas, but by then it may be too late if we get off to a poor start and you are expecting automatic promotion).

I changed my vote from review at the end of the season to full backing next season.

My expectations this season were mid-table security (and dreamed of a play-off place). He more than exceeded my expectations.

Next season my expectation is a play-off place (or better).

I believe Gary Bowyer has shown what he and this squad is capable of, which means they should be consistently in the top 6 next season. Though I would not panic if they dropped from time to time to the 8th-10th spot, sometimes stuff just happens.

And regardless of what happens, I would not replace Gary Bowyer at any point next season unless we spend several weeks mid-table or worse. Again, he's shown what this squad can do and they are more than capable of digging themselves out of the occasional hole.

Assuming Gary Bowyer can shift a few high earners (DJ Campbell, Best, Etuhu and Orr spring to mind) then I would give him free rein (within an agreed upon budget) to reinforce the squad as he sees fit. I would support him in keeping the current top 18 (including Robbo and Rhodes) on-board, as they're settled into the side and we don't want to go backwards. We're close to sealing the deal and this is not the time to unnecessarily pinch the pennies.

[Tom]

Expected to finish mid table at the beginning of the season and despite two or three results going against us looking like we will finish 8th, so on expectations done better than expected.

Would like to see someone experienced alongside him to help address his shortcomings and put a barrier between him and his boys ,and a leader on the pitch brought in if funds allow. Pretty confident he will come back from Pune with a enhanced rolling contract and if the managerial set up stays as is with no experience brought in it really is a case of wait and see regarding learning from mistakes.

If it is to be believed that he is in sole control of playing matters then on balance him and his scouting team have done well, as the decent players brought in offset the squad fillers. No doubt the increase in certain players values will be met well in Pune.

Unfortunately if the play safe philosophy was one done with the sole intention of hitting a top ten target then that is a major concern, to many still serving self interests at Ewood .

Thanks for expressing my near exact thought much better than I could myself

I also has us down as around 12th I think but the frustrations have come from how open the league is and how achievable it's seemed to be - to give the manager his due maybe we only got frustrated because he got us within touching distance.

Next year he has to prove that he and the team can go one better

[Beta Ray Bill]

I've said from the start of the season we'd be outside of playoffs but inside top 10. I've also said this division is full of inconsistency and apart from 2 or 3 teams each year, it just depends on who is slightly less inconsistent than the rest who gets the playoffs.

Unfortunately we've been too inconsistent until recently (although even then it's been fairly up and down but not as extreme result wise). I voted reassess at end of season and believe he's earned first 15 matches next season to see if the trend at the end of this continues.

Keep the core squad and hope they stay fit and the first team needs limited signings to have a decent stab.

Robbo

Spurr

Hanley

C/B

R/B

Marshall

Cairney

Evans

Conway

Gestede

Rhodes

Obviously the backup needs some consideration too but a fit first team writes itself ; Willowe excepted!

[47er]

I predicted we'd finish 9th and it looks like we'll finish 8th so we have just missed out which is what most people, from memory, thought.

Last season we nearly got relegated, this season we were still in with a chance of the play-offs in the last week.By any criteria that is progress of a substantial nature and Bowyer does deserve a second season on that basis.

It's true that, at times, his misjudgements have cost us critical points that would have seen us get there. But a more experienced manager might not have had the same acumen in the transfer market and might not have assembled a squad which would have got us to that point in the first place.

I'm not expressing myself well but I hope you see what I mean.

I repeat that if I were the Raos I'd think Bowyer was manna from heaven and if he could keep on finding players like Gestede and Conway for next to nothing I'd employ him forever. Stressing that's not my viewpoint but I suspect it will be their's.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

For those who want to get rid of Bowyer, what did you expect at the begiinning of the season?

Surely no one expected us to be guaranteed play off contenders? And surely you'd concede that it's only down to Bowyers signings of Cairney, Gestede, Spurr etc that got us as close as we did.

We are going to miss out by a point or two which hurts but with our recent run of form I can't say Bowyer hasn't deserved another crack.

Next season we need to be occupying the play off spots. Any less come December time and then a change might be needed.

[blueboy3333]

For those who want to get rid of Bowyer, what did you expect at the begiinning of the season?

Surely no one expected us to be guaranteed play off contenders? And surely you'd concede that it's only down to Bowyers signings of Cairney, Gestede, Spurr etc that got us as close as we did.

We are going to miss out by a point or two which hurts but with our recent run of form I can't say Bowyer hasn't deserved another crack.

Next season we need to be occupying the play off spots. Any less come December time and then a change might be needed.

Like 47er i predicted 9th back in Summer/early autumn so there must be a thread somewhere on here with all our predictions on.

[den]

Ok for all those who said review at the end of the season...

Whats your opinion now?

Also, for those that said back... What are your expectations for next season?(automatic promotion, play-offs, same as now, etc) how long into next season would you want before you reviewed that decision? (Some have said christmas, but by then it may be too late if we get off to a poor start and you are expecting automatic promotion).

Quite a few fans would keep half of Bowyer even if we were to be at the bottom of the league next season, simply because the Raos wouldn't employ anyone better .

The judgement on Bowyer will come when, not if, the owners pull the plug and it all caves in. If we get to that point, then sticking with him will prove to have been a failure of huge proportions, because this is a league - certainly this season - where we should have done much better.

Saying that we've done better or worse than we thought we would do, simply explains why we can't make money from a bookie. It means our judgement before the event was wrong.

[mattjansen]

Just looking at statistics we have under GB played 61 games and only lost 16, meaning we have picked up points in 45 games. Meaning we have picked up points in 73% of all games, not too bad and with improvement in tactics and proper cover in defence we can only look up next season. Hopefully GB learns to grab games and kill them off, certainly he is aware that's a problem as I reckon he ain't dumb.

[Darmond]

Back GB.

1st half of season compared to 2nd half & there has clearly been progress.

GB was tasked with assembling a young squad & developing it. That is what he has been doing & that is why we have had inconsistency at times this year.

This inconsistency could manifest itself as not winning when we should, getting the players used to playing in pressure games or maybe even not carrying out the Manager's tactics as well as he would like (not that we as fans would find that out).

So next year, we have a nucleus of good players continuing to learn how to get the most out of each other. GB will be able to target players that fit with what we already have rather than starting with a blank canvas.

Rovers as a destination for good players should be an easier sell this summer as we are improving & appear to have good team spirit among the core of our squad. Also with fewer players needed, we can be a bit more choosy.

This makes a big assumption that Venkys will look to keep the finances as they are (ie GB works on a modest budget & Venkys absorb all the other significant costs already incurred & eject big earners where it is reasonable - as in "not Rhodes").

I think a lot of the teams having success in the Championship this year started that work last year. Also the teams coming down may get their prep for the Championship next season wrong so I would expect us to do well next season.

However if GB does start badly, maybe FFP implications may affect if we would get rid of him or not.

[Willie Eckerslike]

Just looking at statistics we have under GB played 61 games and only lost 16, meaning we have picked up points in 45 games. Meaning we have picked up points in 73% of all games, not too bad and with improvement in tactics and proper cover in defence we can only look up next season. Hopefully GB learns to grab games and kill them off, certainly he is aware that's a problem as I reckon he ain't dumb.

Too many draws though. In the current top 10 in the Championship, no team has drawn more games than us and no team has won fewer matches than us.

As well as Bowyer might have done compared to last season, I still don't think he has enough tactical skill to hold onto those precious winning positions or change a game so we get three points instead of one.

And I don't think he is going to acquire those skills during the summer.

[windymiller7]

Just changed my vote from "Give him til the end of the season & re-assess" to " Let him carry on".

I've seen enough in the last 10 games or so to believe he deserves so build on the improved performances (Yeovil aside) and see how things go at the beginning of next season.

I like the look of many of the players he's brought in for a relative pittance (Gestede, Conway, Cairney, Marshall etc) so think he does have an eye for a bargain.

I think the critical one (leaving off-field antics aside) will be how we fair in the market for a keeper and a centre back. If we can either sign him permanent or get him on a season long loan I'd love to see Michael Keane stay which would sort that problem provided Songo'o can be 4th choice. We'd also have cover for RB in him & Lowe for Henley. Assuming Henley recovers his form. Either way I'd start next season with a back four of TS MK GH MK if he stays.

Just hope we give Wigan a real hiding on saturday to finish the season.

COYB

[Black Burn]

Too many draws though. In the current top 10 in the Championship, no team has drawn more games than us and no team has won fewer matches than us.

As well as Bowyer might have done compared to last season, I still don't think he has enough tactical skill to hold onto those precious winning positions or change a game so we get three points instead of one.

And I don't think he is going to acquire those skills during the summer.

You forgot to add that no team has gone on an 11-match unbeaten run either. Not to mention that we were doing worse in the first half of the season and nowhere near the top 10 then. For the most part we were stuck around 11 to 15?

[Willie Eckerslike]

You forgot to add that no team has gone on an 11-match unbeaten run either. Not to mention that we were doing worse in the first half of the season and nowhere near the top 10 then. For the most part we were stuck around 11 to 15?

I was making the point that if Bowyer continues making lots of draws without converting them to wins next season (or converting wins to draws), we won't be doing much better than now.

An 11 match unbeaten run isn't going to get us promoted if it consists of more draws than wins (and is preceded by 3 defeats like this one is)

[Old Bay]

I don't think it was all that long ago that I posted my wait till the end of the season, but still. I'd go with back him. I do believe there was some disappointments, but I think he's done well enough to get a chance to move into next season at the helm. I think he's done well in the transfer market and brought stability. I was hopeful for just a quiet stabilizing type of season and we got that. If it wasn't for the financial issues (which are valid concerns) I don't know if Bowyer would be judged so harshly (especially in comparison to the dreck we've had over the last 3 seasons).

[Roverthechimp]

Too many draws though. In the current top 10 in the Championship, no team has drawn more games than us and no team has won fewer matches than us.

As well as Bowyer might have done compared to last season, I still don't think he has enough tactical skill to hold onto those precious winning positions or change a game so we get three points instead of one.

And I don't think he is going to acquire those skills during the summer.

I would argue that this could "failure" could be levelled at the players - i think virtually every manager on the planet when winning games and seeing the opposition make 3 attacking substitutions would throw on an extra midfielder/defender and tell the players to "keep it tight"... I think Bowyer has the tactical acumen but can he blend a little more "experience" into the squad so that we can "park the bus" when required?