[Archived] Second Striker Syndrome

[thenodrog]

Childish? I guess everyone must seem like a child from your perspective. you see Theno you do this all the time to others on here, so I'm quite amused you call me a child as truly it's a reflection of yourself. You can dish it, but god you cannot take it, can you?

I notice no-one else is disputing that we knock it long to JR too much? , If others had then you might be right but alas you've been given your medicine and now you want revenge, cause it tasted bad. And you call me a child? Buy a mirror.

No Theno I haven't been in a couple of matches, but alas they've been on TV, so I've seen enough. We can continue down the expertise routeway if you like, but I suggest you look up how knowledge is formed before you do.

If you remember I don't do 'your ways', I'm a poxy theorist apparently and theory tells me Golf is for whatever day i decide it is.

Toys thrown well out by Doctor Football I see.

My personal thoughts is someone in the hole, linking Rhodes to the midfield more and bringing the midfield more in to play. Say a fit Dunn/Rochina could contribute 10 goals, but more importantly could bring the likes of Marshall, Evans, King, Cairney and Conway more into the game offensively - that could be massive. If the right player and formation could get more out of these players, and get each of the above mentioned scoring a couple more goals each, we'd be in a much healthier position.

Granted, this is a tad simplistic, but I believe the general principal holds up.

It is way too simplistic BB. It means dropping our best target man.

[Majiball]

Toys thrown well out by Doctor Football I see.

TBH Theno your reply had me in stitches and I'm not surprised by the above as deflection is your tactic when you cannot retort. I didn't throw my toys out I threw it all back in your face and the best your all mightyness can come back with is it was him not me. LOL childish Theno, childish, your like an older version of chaddy with about 2 more IQ points.

[Baz]

Personally I think the problem is partially that the ethos for most of the team is just give it to Jordan, he scores the goals. If you keep repeating the same actions it makes the oppositions defensive work much easier. How many times with JR playing on his own up front do you see our central midfielders running past him, trying to get on the end of something? We are lucky if they get further than 10 yards past the halfway line more than twice a game excluding set pieces. How many times do you see them get the ball, commit a defender and take them on?

How many goals have we had from midfield in open play this season between them all (and we know there are plenty of them)?

Yes JR isnt the finished article, Rudy is promising as a partner, but theres plenty of others who arent pulling their weight in the goals stake too.

I'd also question how many goals from set pieces from our centre halves, and how many assists from our full-backs too.

[Blue blood]

Another general principle that could be applied to your reasoning is that Rhodes shouldn't need a foil to help others create chances. This is of course all speculation, but no player exists in a vacuum on the pitch, and maybe with a bit more footballing intelligence Rhodes would score a few goals less but contribute more assists and thereby raise the total amount of Rovers' goals?

Absolutely agree, no player is in a vacuum - but I don't think Rhodes is the type of player who will either through passing or physicality (let's be honest neither of those are attributes he excels at) bring about even a moderate number of assists. Therefore the options as I see it are either maximize what he is good at - finishing - or can him and get in someone else who will compliment the team more.Truth be told I can't see the second option being possible for us financially, hence we need to see how we best can utilize the skills he has

Toys thrown well out by Doctor Football I see.

It is way too simplistic BB. It means dropping our best target man.

Not really the thread is about how we get the best out of Rhodes, and that's how I think it can be done. And there is evidence (with Rochina from last season, and the albeit very brief cameo together vs. Derby) that this works. Whether this is the best thing to do - well we've another thread about that.

[roversfan99]

Rochina was terrible v Derby and it was a blessing when his running down blind alleys and never passing was replaced by Best that day, who bullied their defence and scored.

[Amo]

Rochina was terrible v Derby and it was a blessing when his running down blind alleys and never passing was replaced by Best that day, who bullied their defence and scored.

Not how I remember it. Rhodes & Rochina had Derby on the backfoot. It's no coincidence that once Rochina went off (for Best), Derby started to dominate.

[roversfan99]

No they didn't, every time Rochina got the ball, he ran into Derby defenders and gave the ball away. He also messed up a few dangerous set pieces by trying to be clever.

When Best got into the game his physical presence upset the Derby defence and created chances, and he got that late goal.

[Amo]

No they didn't, every time Rochina got the ball, he ran into Derby defenders and gave the ball away. He also messed up a few dangerous set pieces by trying to be clever.

16.58: An enjoyable first half, which Blackburn were in control of until Rochina was forced off seven minutes before the break. Derby soon won a penalty minutes later and have called (and made) the shots since. Just the one goal in it so far though.

17.03: Best's introduction for Rochina seemed to disrupt Blackburn's rhythm but I just wonder if a tactical half-time team-talk will help Rovers regain an attacking stance in the second-half - they did start very well.

Nigel Clough's outfit meanwhile haven't looked at their best but this has been a decent game so far with both sides showing promise on the ball.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2383714/Derby-v-Blackburn--live-Championship.html

[Stuart]

Not really the thread is about how we get the best out of Rhodes, and that's how I think it can be done.

To be fair to the OP, that's not what the thread is about. It's about the need (or not) for a second striker to weigh in with double figures for the season.

[thenodrog]

To be fair to the OP, that's not what the thread is about. It's about the need (or not) for a second striker to weigh in with double figures for the season.

Maybe a taj early but Gestede has scored 5 in 17 matches to date. Thats about 13/14 over aq season.

btw talking of him when he powered a header toward the goal v leicester which hit Rhodes virtually on the line and was cleared could anybody at the middle / far end of the Riverside see whether there was a Leicester player behind Rhodes or would it have gone in?

[scotchrover]

Rochina was terrible v Derby and it was a blessing when his running down blind alleys and never passing was replaced by Best that day, who bullied their defence and scored.

Completely disagree with you. I thought Rochina was a real threat before the injury with his role of linking the midfield and attack. After he went off, we didn't look as threatening, which makes me wonder if most of pre-season training had gone into Rochina being a playmaker.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

We have several players who could contribute more goals in Gestede, Dunn, King etc. if Rovers tactics were better.

IMO it is the manager and his use of players which is the problem at times.

Injuries haven't helped this season but neither has the way Rovers play.

This thread has mentioned Danny Ings and his energy but Burnley arrived with a game plan of long ball but targeted into our weak areas and then play from there. We also play long ball but its with no intention of keeping it.

Leicester also had a game plan. They attacked with pace. They would go up the pitch fast not giving our defence time to settle. When we attacked especially in the first half, Leicester had time to go and have a brew before we got to their penalty box.

I honestly believe with a good manager we have the players to contribute more than 10 goals apiece and the players to change tactics. Sorry to say we haven't the manager to help them achieve this.

[roversfan99]

16.58: An enjoyable first half, which Blackburn were in control of until Rochina was forced off seven minutes before the break. Derby soon won a penalty minutes later and have called (and made) the shots since. Just the one goal in it so far though.

17.03: Best's introduction for Rochina seemed to disrupt Blackburn's rhythm but I just wonder if a tactical half-time team-talk will help Rovers regain an attacking stance in the second-half - they did start very well.

Nigel Clough's outfit meanwhile haven't looked at their best but this has been a decent game so far with both sides showing promise on the ball.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2383714/Derby-v-Blackburn--live-Championship.html

I saw the game and don't need a report to tell me that Rochina kept over running the ball into dead ends and trying to do everything himself.

[Majiball]

However it clearly highlights others saw things differently to you

[somersetrover]

If we are going to play 2 upfront next season which I hope we do, then we are going to need another striker. Varney could be a 4th choice and cover on the wing, but be we need something better to come in for Rhodes or Rudy and indeed compete with them for a place in the team. A couple names I thought of were O'Grady at Barnsley he scores goals in a struggling team and if they go down we could get him at a decent price. The other name I thought of was Macheda at United, we could certainly get him on loan and maybe even on a permanent as he isn't going to make it at United and this season at Brum and Donny two struggling clubs he has scored goals. I think we only need one striker brought in a we also have King who can play there and Dunny who can play the withdrawn role.

[roversfan99]

I hope we don't because if Rhodes stays, he looks terrible in a front 2 and is unable to read any of the flick ons from Gestede. If he isn't here I would prefer Gestede/someone else to hold the ball up with people like Marshall, Conway, Dunn, King, Judge etc running forward in support.

Why would we want Varney to cover the wings? We have Marshall, Conway, King, Judge and Taylor.

[Tom]

For me Varney is a wing / forward version of Lowe

A willing runner but you are just as well not giving him the ball if you want to create something

Lowe serves a purpose but I can't see how Varney does

[Stuart]

Lowe serves a purpose

That's some subtle humour, bro.

[Tom]

Right back

[JAL]

For me Varney is a wing / forward version of Lowe

A willing runner but you are just as well not giving him the ball if you want to create something

Lowe serves a purpose but I can't see how Varney does

Just what is the point of Varney another poor signing from the Bowyer era..

[DE.]

Varney's only on loan and played 7 games. Relax.

Conway alternatively has been an excellent signing so far.

[Majiball]

All these excellent signings and we're still mid-table fodder. If excellent signings only get us there, what type will we need to push on from last season? Stumpedously outstanding perfectionist signings? They're decent nothing more as our results and performances show.

[Tom]

Brilliant signings are only brilliant if you get the team playing right

For as good as Cairney has looked he's been wasted in more games he's been deployed effectively in

[Blue blood]

All these excellent signings and we're still mid-table fodder. If excellent signings only get us there, what type will we need to push on from last season? Stumpedously outstanding perfectionist signings? They're decent nothing more as our results and performances show.

Without trying to hijack the thread - I suggest that it indicates that the manager can spot a player but lacks the tactical nous to do anything with them. I.e. he's not the man for the gig.

If only we'd got Bowyer promoted to a scout rather than manager.