[Archived] Why no Watford thread? Watford v Rovers, 25th March, KO: 7.45

[thenodrog]

We seem to have a mini awful run followed by a really good one,

Apart from Leicester and Burnley I'd say that is standard practice for every club in this Division.

[K-Hod]

a. I rem the excitement from some when Ince was named manager. It was a disaster as I predicted it would be.

b. I rem the excitement from a number on here when Allardyce was sacked and Kean brought in. It was an unmitigated disaster also as I predicted but which may well turn out to be the main reason for the death of the club.

Do you want that to risk all that happening again? **

If you believe that there is a better manager out there who is keen to manage us under the Venkymob and working with severe financial constraints then name him as a possibility / suggestion. Until then any opinion to bin off the relatively safe hands of Gary Bowyer is a worthless one.

** just as an aside cos I cant be bothered looking back but what were your opinions on a & b K-Hod?

I was willing to give Ince a chance as I would with any manager of BRFC, especially as he'd done alright at a lower level, he was clearly nowhere near the level of his predecessor or his replacement as it turned out.

I was very concerned when Mr Allardyce was relieved of his duties, and with good reason it turned out!

Malky Mackay has worked under a crackpot owner, and got a team promoted from this league. I'd have had Mick McCarthy in a heartbeat before Ipswich snared him as well!

[DE.]

No that isn't what I think. I'm saying that if we believe that Bowyer isn't the man for us, then I would like the club to be proactive in finding a better manager. If they can find the right man and he's willing to come, then replace Bowyer with the new manager. If we can't find who we want then Bowyer stays. It's what clubs do.

I'm sure your view is that you wouldn't want that to happen because of a fear of getting someone worse. There's a big difference there. Bottom line for me is that if the judgement is that a manager isn't the right man for a club, he has to go. Simple as that really. It's how you go through the process of replacing him that's important.

No absolutely not, I'm actually in agreement with you. If I believed that our owners would appoint a better manager then I would support looking elsewhere for a manager with greater experience. Unfortunately I have no confidence Venky's will do that and in fact believe such a change could cause the club to implode even further so it would be illogical for me to want Bowyer removed.

[Commondore]

Went tonight. Few points I'd make.

I couldn't believe how we started. We didn't have a recognised right winger and Watford spotted it within about 3minutes. Kane was completely exposed and Evans and Dunn appeared to be arguing over who should be covering across. Their goal came from that side initially. Dunn lost his man to let the cross in and Spurr had let his man across him to prod home. Awful defending.

Anyway, credit to Bowyer, he shifted Conway to RW and we instantly looked more balanced. Not sure how because it left us with no LW.

Gavlar: you thought Spurr played well? I thought he was poor, particularly in possession and going forward. He's slow, has a crap touch and can't pass. Throw ins are useful though.

Kane was just as bad. Got stitched up a couple of occasions and seems to lack confidence when going forward. Little bit blind alley to me.

Kilgallon and Keane generally dealt well with Deeney and other lad who drifted out wide quite a lot, again recognising our lack of a winger.

Williamson was tidy on the ball generally but really lacks the ability to see the game. He keeps hold of it for far too long. He's got a league one thought process IMO. Played well within his capabilities though.

Evans drives me mad with his passing. At times he seems to get the simplest of passes wrong, literally 10 yards. First half particularly he made 3 or 4 hopeless passes. He's a good lad though, up and down and likes a challenge. He's not a world beater but he's solid.

Conway played well. Just unfortunately might lack a yard of pace which is a shame. Very decent player at this level though. Tidy on the ball, works incredibly hard, good set pieces and seems to have an eye for goal.

Dunn - he's far and away the most talented played on the field and do I wish he was 22 again. Lovely controlled finish for the first and brilliant play for the second. I feel far more comfortable when he has the ball at his feet and genuinely makes you feel like something could happen when he plays. Was blowing out of his arse after the Conway goal and should have been taken off. Think Taylor must have shagged Bowyers Mrs - he should be seeing more game time than this.

Rhodes - never ever looked like getting into the game. Huffed and puffed for the first half with perhaps one or two nice touches to feed the ball out wide. I've said it before, he chases around but that really is the bare minimum you would expect from any striker. The problem he's got is that he seems happy to be beaten by defenders, almost as if he gives up. Second half completely anonymous. I'm wondering if he had a shot all game? I can't believe a lad with so much ability in front of goal can be so completely crap at every other aspect of football.

Gestede - such a handful for the opposition all game. Could and probably should have had more than one. Think he went through and saved by almunia in the first half and then perhaps headed over when almunia was in no mans land. What fantastic header though! Excellent in the air and not bad back to goal. Showed some super touches to find Dunn or Conway etc. He's not perhaps the most technically gifted but he was by far and away our biggest threat tonight.

Bowyer - I'm really intrigued by this formation of one winger and three cm's, including Dunn. He's almost asking Gestede to play left wing which is a travesty to be honest. Fair enough, he spotted his mistake and stifled their left hand side by moving Conway over.

He seems to not want to make a change, ever. Tricky tonight because we were playing relatively well and seeing more of the ball. Rhodes should have been taken off and so really should Dunn after an hour.

Final point. What on earth is this 'everyone back' mentality on corners? We've just seen a perfect example tonight of how to counter attack from a corner (watfords third), and when they got a corner we had 11 men in our own box. Stupidity IMO.

I am frustrated by Bowyer in many ways. I want us to have a manager that can recognise opportunities and change the side accordingly. He doesn't seem to have that. Only problem is..... Who do we appoint and how can we trust those numpties to make the right decision.

Oh.... Point was probably just about fair, although we edged it in terms of performance.

It seems to me that Bowyer wants to play with a diamond formation, but employs Williamson on one of the wings to help Evans cover the middle of the park. We're still leaking goals though (5 in 2 now), and for all the excitement of having our best attacking players in their preferred roles on the pitch I don't think it's a sustainable tactic.

[broadsword]

Yes well I think we are answering different questions

"what should the club do?"

"what is the correct decision to take for the club given that it won't take it anyway and even if it did the next one would be incorrect. Which doesn't make sense unless they had a transient attack of common sense"

[Commondore]

a. I rem the excitement from some when Ince was named manager. It was a disaster as I predicted it would be.

b. I rem the excitement from a number on here when Allardyce was sacked and Kean brought in. It was an unmitigated disaster also as I predicted but which may well turn out to be the main reason for the death of the club.

Do you want that to risk all that happening again? **

If you believe that there is a better manager out there who is keen to manage us under the Venkymob and working with severe financial constraints then name him as a possibility / suggestion. Until then any opinion to bin off the relatively safe hands of Gary Bowyer is a worthless one.

** just as an aside cos I cant be bothered looking back but what were your opinions on a & b K-Hod?

It's not a thenodrog-post without at least one gratuitous self-reference...

[thenodrog]

It seems to me that Bowyer wants to play with a diamond formation, but employs Williamson on one of the wings to help Evans cover the middle of the park. We're still leaking goals though (5 in 2 now), and for all the excitement of having our best attacking players in their preferred roles on the pitch I don't think it's a sustainable tactic.

It's a conundrum and is increasingly coming back to Jordan Rhodes as the square peg. Rhodes is an excellent sniffer of course but if we are looking for a solid midfield to protect the defence and provide width we need to play a midfield 5 and that means Gestede is the much better and stronger bet up top. To further his career Jordan Rhodes needs a rule change to allow football teams to field 12 men.

[sharpysharps]

Would have taken a draw before the game but looking back at it it felt a bit like the Leds away game last season. We seemed to be the better team but somehow found ourselves chasing the game in stoppage time.

Happy that the team showed the character to comre back and get the goal at the end but disapointed that they got themselves into that posotion having led.

[den]

No absolutely not, I'm actually in agreement with you. If I believed that our owners would appoint a better manager then I would support looking elsewhere for a manager with greater experience. Unfortunately I have no confidence Venky's will do that and in fact believe such a change could cause the club to implode even further so it would be illogical for me to want Bowyer removed.

We're on the wrong thread, aren't we!

Sorry DE, I just find that so difficult to comprehend. You're happy-ish that Venky's found Bowyer who is an improvement on the previous incumbents, yet you think they can't find better than him? What's so special about Bowyer that makes you think that while they have improve on the last four managers, there's little chance they could improve on him?

It's muddled thinking to me DE.

[martonrover]

Whilst people compare this to last seasons capitulation at Watford to show how far we've come its worth noting that just a month ago we did the exact same at Bolton.

We seem to have a mini awful run followed by a really good one, let's hope we can continue it and get a win at weekend then against Brighton

And while they've been on a good run of late, Watford are below us in the table, (and we're heading for the Play Offs when they beat us so soundly last season).

To make headway you have to go on a run of wins and that's something we are seemingly incapable of.

[DE.]

We're on the wrong thread, aren't we!

Sorry DE, I just find that so difficult to comprehend. You're happy-ish that Venky's found Bowyer who is an improvement on the previous incumbents, yet you think they can't find better than him? What's so special about Bowyer that makes you think that while they have improve on the last four managers, there's little chance they could improve on him?

It's muddled thinking to me DE.

They stumbled on him by accident den. They didn't select him because they had a thought-out process in place. They got lucky and I doubt they'll get lucky again.

[Hekla]

Sorry guys did we get beat? It would seem so from some of these comments.

[McClarky]

Despite what everyone says there will be no stability while these clowns remain in charge and signing 19 players in a season just looks like a club whose finances are out of control. Who is making these signings? Surely not the manager because if he was he surely wouldn't be ignoring them or loaning them out to other clubs.

Take Dabo as an example. Surely he wouldn't be sat at 0 appearances after 2 months at the club if GB wanted him. He's someone who's played at a much higher level than this and is highly thought of so why is he not playing? Personally I'm not bothered who the manager is because we are going nowehere as a club until there is a change at the top and some structure is put in.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Sorry guys did we get beat? It would seem so from some of these comments.

I didn't listen this time and opted to watch the Manchester derby instead, Some great skill on show for all our goals. Their pen looked very harsh to me.

It sounds from Bowyer's interview like we were denied a stonewall pen?... even after Rudy's fantastic header?!

I do not think it would require a great deal to turn this team into promotion candidates. All my (supporter) experience tells me we need an experienced tactician, who can proactively influence a game. Not sure if it is fair to judge Bowyer in a context, where so many players have been unavailable to him. But I do remain unconvinced.

As regards, proactive substitutions etc, I know fans complained about Souness, Hughes, Allardyce and Hodgson on that score.Funnily enough, I remember Moyes' clever substitutions turning a league cup game v Preston on its head...against a future England manager too.

A difficult decision awaits and I do worry.

It will be like leaving the decision on whether I should have brain surgery to a group of used car salesmen, who.... sacked my consultant!

[Neal]

So are you saying we're stuck with Bowyer until he resigns?

I don't believe this to be true, and if it was me who owned Rovers (yes, I know it's Venky's and "they would appoint another wally" or whatever, but I'm talking about what is the best option now) then I would bin Bowyer, get Mackay or Davies in and tell them they have to horse-trade to get the wage bill down.

An experienced man could get more out of a smaller squad and would pay for himself.

That's how I see it.

I agree, you could put this squad of players in the hands of a good experienced manager with no money to spend and quite positive they would at least make the playoffs.

[rog of the rovers]

When I compare the Rovers teams that were smashed 4-0 at Watford last season and that drew 3-3 last night, it's clear that Bowyer has really turned things around and put together a team that has the potential to really go places. I couldn't have said that about the team that capitulated and looked completely disinterested last time I was at Vicarage Road...

Watford 4-0 Rovers - 20/4/13

Watford - Alumnia, Doyley, Pudil, Cassetti, Chalobah, Ekstrand (Briggs), Hogg, Anya (Murray), Abdi, Deeney, Forrestieri (Vydra)

Manager - Zola

Goals - Deeney 52, 61. Abdi 76, Briggs 75

Rovers - Sandomierski, Kane, Dann, Givet (Rekik), Ms Olsson, King (Nuno Gomes), Williamson, Jones, Dunn, Best, Rhodes (Morris)

Caretaker Manager - Bowyer

Players in bold played last night. Watford (7) Rovers (4)

Players in red no longer at the club or out on loan. Watford (4) Rovers (8)

Really does show how much change their has been in 11 months!

[roveranout]

Quick question,

Why did Dunny play 90 minutes last night when he was brought off after 60 mins against Burnley and was on the bench for the games between Bournemouth and Leicester?

Not really sure this is how i'd treat him personally.

[DE.]

Rekik, what an utter turd he was.

Now playing on loan at PSV, mind, so maybe Appleton just murdered his ability whilst he was here.

[Jimmy612]

Quick question,

Why did Dunny play 90 minutes last night when he was brought off after 60 mins against Burnley and was on the bench for the games between Bournemouth and Leicester?

Not really sure this is how i'd treat him personally.

My reading of it when I was there is that the game was finely balanced and IMO Bowyer did not have a clue what change to make to increase our chance of winning it, hence he did nothing until we went 3-2 down and threw Varney on as last minute desperation.

Having said that, the bench was quite bland. Midfielders were Dabo and Taylor basically. I thought Taylor should have come on as soon as we went 2-1 up, replacing Dunn, and Varney should have replaced Rhodes too. That way Varney could have offered more defensively and provided another good outlet to ensure we kept hold of it. I'm sure Bowyer would have been thinking similar but then they went and got the equaliser.

[Tom]

Was it Varney that went down under a challenge when Rudy headed in?

Also who floated the ball in for the goal nice knock that

[den]

They stumbled on him by accident den. They didn't select him because they had a thought-out process in place. They got lucky and I doubt they'll get lucky again.

The Raos would argue that he was appointed because of his record as caretaker, therefore nothing to do with luck. You need luck when appointing any manager DE.

[DE.]

The Raos would argue that he was appointed because of his record as caretaker, therefore nothing to do with luck. You need luck when appointing any manager DE.

If you trust them to appoint a manager better than Bowyer then that is fine den. I don't, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard!

[somersetrover]

Was it Varney that went down under a challenge when Rudy headed in?

Also who floated the ball in for the goal nice knock that

It was Kilgallon who put the ball in, it was a lovely knock indeed. Distribution is one area where Kilgallon is a big improvement on Dann.

[den]

If you trust them to appoint a manager better than Bowyer then that is fine den. I don't, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard!

Ok mate. Stay as we are then.

Our last 6 games at the business end of the season when the play offs were the aim, (19 players brought in), we took 5 points out of a possible 18. I don't get where the enthusiasm for next season comes from. If that's the best we can do, bring on administration. The sooner, the better. (Not really, but that's what it makes you feel like).

[Majiball]

If you trust them to appoint a manager better than Bowyer then that is fine den. I don't, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard!

Surely through the law of averages we're due a decent manager from the Venky's they can't always pick duds?