[Archived] Sheffield Wednesday v Rovers

[Neal]

I went to the game. Unlike the previous two games, our ball retention was poor today. We didn't look comfortable in possession and punted forward endlessly. Cairney was quiet today although he worked hard.

And this is IN MY OPINION why we concede so many goals. We don't take care of the ball, particularly after we score. Our best passer is Cairney, he protects the ball much better than anyone else we have...

To be honest I'm sick of saying it and sick of seeing it.

[Al]

With all due respect Stuart but what qualifications do you or I have to judge that he is a better scout than a manager or a better manager than a scout? Football Manager is rather like Prime Minister it's a job we all feel we can do better than the person who is doing it. However, there is a reason that we aren't and that's because we are not qualified to do it and wouldn't be very good at it when push comes to shove. We base our opinions on what we see on a Saturday afternoon. We have no idea what has gone on in training during the week. We have no idea if players are carrying injuries or have personal problems that impact on their game. In fact we know very little out the inner workings of team preparation and what really goes on a football club. I wonder how many of us would enjoy seeing people wander off the street and telling us that we aren't very good at our own jobs - whatever it may be - by people who really know nothing about it?

You are morphing into Chaddy. Have a look at yourself. You are not a super fan.

[Leonard Venkhater]

And this is IN MY OPINION why we concede so many goals. We don't take care of the ball, particularly after we score. Our best passer is Cairney, he protects the ball much better than anyone else we have...

To be honest I'm sick of saying it and sick of seeing it.

Agreed. My biggest bugbear...

[Neal]

I went to the game. Unlike the previous two games, our ball retention was poor today. We didn't look comfortable in possession and punted forward endlessly. Cairney was quiet today although he worked hard. Conway too wasn't his usual swashbuckling self. Williamson worked hard and was my man of the match.

Rhodes had chances to sew the game up and I am annoyed at his selfish attitude to some extent. I have seen for a while his disinterest in providing assists for his teammates. It has to be all about him! I know he has to score goals as a striker but I hope bowyer talks to him about the bigger picture here.

Keane was repeatedly beaten by their winger and had a poor game ( great goal though).

We had a couple of throw ins in their right back spot very late on and missed dunny at that point. If he had been playing he would have kept possession and we would have won the game. (Is he injured?).

Bowyer came over at the end and pointed to the floral tribute in the lower tier. He seemed to be conveying that remembering the death of the 96 was the overriding priority of the day and that some perspective should be put on things. This annoyed me too. An outpouring of vicarious grief is one thing but everyone paid respects to the tragic victims prior to kick off and that was that!

Tommy spurr sustained an injury fifteen minutes or so from the end (groin, left side I think) and should have come off. I cannot understand why he was left on! I am no advocate of Marcus, but why have him on the bench if you stubbornly refuse to bring him on. Alternatively, kilgallon to left back, Keane to centre and Kane on would have addressed the issue.

We have stupidly thrown away the chance of promotion this year from a really poor quality division and bowyer will undoubtedly pay the price.

All in all, a sorry, but totally avoidable state of affairs.

Good post by the way, totally agree.

[No Nay Never]

I went to the game. Unlike the previous two games, our ball retention was poor today. We didn't look comfortable in possession and punted forward endlessly. Cairney was quiet today although he worked hard. Conway too wasn't his usual swashbuckling self. Williamson worked hard and was my man of the match.

Rhodes had chances to sew the game up and I am annoyed at his selfish attitude to some extent. I have seen for a while his disinterest in providing assists for his teammates. It has to be all about him! I know he has to score goals as a striker but I hope bowyer talks to him about the bigger picture here.

Keane was repeatedly beaten by their winger and had a poor game ( great goal though).

We had a couple of throw ins in their right back spot very late on and missed dunny at that point. If he had been playing he would have kept possession and we would have won the game. (Is he injured?).

Bowyer came over at the end and pointed to the floral tribute in the lower tier. He seemed to be conveying that remembering the death of the 96 was the overriding priority of the day and that some perspective should be put on things. This annoyed me too. An outpouring of vicarious grief is one thing but everyone paid respects to the tragic victims prior to kick off and that was that!

Tommy spurr sustained an injury fifteen minutes or so from the end (groin, left side I think) and should have come off. I cannot understand why he was left on! I am no advocate of Marcus, but why have him on the bench if you stubbornly refuse to bring him on. Alternatively, kilgallon to left back, Keane to centre and Kane on would have addressed the issue.

We have stupidly thrown away the chance of promotion this year from a really poor quality division and bowyer will undoubtedly pay the price.

All in all, a sorry, but totally avoidable state of affairs.

It was quite obvious to anyone that he was applauding the fans for upholding the clubs excellent reputation on a difficult day, as he eluded too in his interview.

[Steve Moss]

We're going to win the league!

This year or next!

Stay cool, we'll make it. One way or the other.

[Parsonblue]

I don't need to be a good Rovers manager, I just need the the club to pick one who is.

I 'judge' him as a good scout based on the players I have seen. I 'judge' him as a poorer manager because in a very poor league we are midtable with our nearest neighbours tearing up the league with nothing BUT a better manager.

With all due respect, I don't think you would be quite so one-eyed about it if it weren't a guy you know so well from the youth and reserve side of the game. His record isn't that much better than Steve Kean, and is far inferior to the much maligned Tim Sherwood.

Thanks but it goes without saying that every post I make is my opinion. It's kind of implicit. I can't see that I can type "in my opinion" after every statement.

As you say Stuart it is a game of opinions. In my opinion he has the potential to become a very good manager and that's an opinion I would hold even if I hadn't seen him over the years at youth and reserve level. Patience is required. Do you remember when Ken Furphy arrived to rebuild the club in 1971? Although young in comparison to previous managers he was very experienced but still took a season to get the club stable in the Third Division before we could move forward and mount a promotion challenge - which failed - the following season. The directors still stuck with him until he opted to move to the top flight with Sheffield United. One suspects that if this messageboard had been around at that time folk would have been calling for his head. However at the time the fans got behind him and the foundations were put in place for Gordon Lee to build on THREE YEARS later.

[hollowsr]

Can't believe people are blaming Bowyer for us only drawing. Fault is squarely at Keane's and Varney's doors. Keane had chance to launch it to Cairney who would have been free in the Wednesday half, instead he tried to play a chipped ball which got easily intercepted, no excuse when he had the whole Wednesday half to play with and then Varney was beaten to easily and once he was beaten he should have pulled the guy back but instead he just let him skip past

Very poor mistakes there as well as for the first goal as well.

Few other thoughts

Keane is never a right back, he seems scared to go and get close to a mine with the ball at his feet, reason for the 2nd goal today, think he will make a very good centre back but never a right back.

We need someone tall in centre mid, when teams launch it at us in last few minutes Hanley and Kilgallon have to mop up everything as Williamson, Lowe and even Evans are too small, if we had someone taller and with a bit of bulk they could also help out with this

As people say Conway wasn't as effective today as he has been.

Gutted to only draw but I have faith in the team and Bowyer for now as long as we get some key additions next season. Think next year we have to be at the top end of the table from the go.

At the end of the day though the memorials before the game prove that there is far more to life than football

[Riverside67]

As I keep saying Parson I hope you are right. It all just seems a long way off now.

No doubt the biggest question arising from this season is Bowyers ability to turn a game back in his favour when it is drifting away. Yesterday confirms he is still better at doing it the other way round.

The Tony Field era was a geat one and probably my first real Rovers hero. Furphy did a great job with no money but the remaining 7000 fans stuck with the team after the debacle of the 7 1 loss to Shrewsbury. Not sure that commitment is still there.

[Stuart]

Can't believe people are blaming Bowyer for us only drawing.

The defenders being in that position is a consequence of allowing the opposition get back into the game.

The manager is always the one to carry the can. Always has, always will.

That won't change because Bowyer's a nice guy; because he's still learning; because he loves the club; because Venkys own us; or because of the last three years.

[Waggy76]

Can't believe people are blaming Bowyer for us only drawing. Fault is squarely at Keane's and Varney's doors. Keane had chance to launch it to Cairney who would have been free in the Wednesday half, instead he tried to play a chipped ball which got easily intercepted, no excuse when he had the whole Wednesday half to play with and then Varney was beaten to easily and once he was beaten he should have pulled the guy back but instead he just let him skip past

Very poor mistakes there as well as for the first goal as well.

Few other thoughts

Keane is never a right back, he seems scared to go and get close to a mine with the ball at his feet, reason for the 2nd goal today, think he will make a very good centre back but never a right back.

We need someone tall in centre mid, when teams launch it at us in last few minutes Hanley and Kilgallon have to mop up everything as Williamson, Lowe and even Evans are too small, if we had someone taller and with a bit of bulk they could also help out with this

As people say Conway wasn't as effective today as he has been.

Gutted to only draw but I have faith in the team and Bowyer for now as long as we get some key additions next season. Think next year we have to be at the top end of the table from the go.

At the end of the day though the memorials before the game prove that there is far more to life than football

Why did we sign varney ?, that one baffles me ...

[arbitro]

As you say Stuart it is a game of opinions. In my opinion he has the potential to become a very good manager and that's an opinion I would hold even if I hadn't seen him over the years at youth and reserve level. Patience is required. Do you remember when Ken Furphy arrived to rebuild the club in 1971? Although young in comparison to previous managers he was very experienced but still took a season to get the club stable in the Third Division before we could move forward and mount a promotion challenge - which failed - the following season. The directors still stuck with him until he opted to move to the top flight with Sheffield United. One suspects that if this messageboard had been around at that time folk would have been calling for his head. However at the time the fans got behind him and the foundations were put in place for Gordon Lee to build on THREE YEARS later.

That was then and this is now and without rose tinted glasses I'm sure both Furphy and Lee made mistakes and certainly signed some duds. In that era all we had was the LET reporting under the great Alf Thornton or to actually see the match. Now we have wall to wall coverage of football and hours of analysis. From this I believe that football fans are far more savvy with respect to tactics, team set up and general play and through this there will be more criticism, and most of it I believe to be constructive in our case.

We all want Rovers and Bowyer to be successful but on the evidence of this season I honestly can't see it happening. I truly hope I am wrong.

[tkturner]

I was working yesterday so was only following it on the BBC website, I was impressed to see us go 3-1 ahead and was thinking "wow, we are actually having a proper go at this and the playoffs might just be on"

When it went to 3-2 and not much time left I just knew we wouldn't see it through...

I called us a top ten team but outside of the top 6 this year and we are pretty much that...

We threw away a huge opportunity yesterday and although we might not have gone up via the playoffs it would have been huge just to have been in there in my opinion.

Now we have the summer to come and will this seasons shortfalls have any bearing on bigger decisions from the owners etc and disrupt what decent work has been done so far to get back to some level of normality both on and off the field?

[chaddyrovers]

It was quite obvious to anyone that he was applauding the fans for upholding the clubs excellent reputation on a difficult day, as he eluded too in his interview.

exactly. I thought the Rovers fans were fantastic yesterday and it was very emotional day being there and something I defo will never forget. I was proud to be there.

Can't believe people are blaming Bowyer for us only drawing. Fault is squarely at Keane's and Varney's doors. Keane had chance to launch it to Cairney who would have been free in the Wednesday half, instead he tried to play a chipped ball which got easily intercepted, no excuse when he had the whole Wednesday half to play with and then Varney was beaten to easily and once he was beaten he should have pulled the guy back but instead he just let him skip past

Very poor mistakes there as well as for the first goal as well.

Few other thoughts

Keane is never a right back, he seems scared to go and get close to a mine with the ball at his feet, reason for the 2nd goal today, think he will make a very good centre back but never a right back.

We need someone tall in centre mid, when teams launch it at us in last few minutes Hanley and Kilgallon have to mop up everything as Williamson, Lowe and even Evans are too small, if we had someone taller and with a bit of bulk they could also help out with this

As people say Conway wasn't as effective today as he has been.

Gutted to only draw but I have faith in the team and Bowyer for now as long as we get some key additions next season. Think next year we have to be at the top end of the table from the go.

At the end of the day though the memorials before the game prove that there is far more to life than football

very good summary there.

Keane struggle yesterday against Antonio for the last 20 mins of the game. But Keane sloppy pass cost us the game.

also very annoyed at Rhodes for being greedy and not pass to Gestede for a open net.

My man of the match was either Lowe or Gestede.

I think Bowyer has now build a good 16/17 man squad and will 3 or 4 additions this summer should be challenging for promotion next season for sure.

With all due respect Stuart but what qualifications do you or I have to judge that he is a better scout than a manager or a better manager than a scout? Football Manager is rather like Prime Minister it's a job we all feel we can do better than the person who is doing it. However, there is a reason that we aren't and that's because we are not qualified to do it and wouldn't be very good at it when push comes to shove. We base our opinions on what we see on a Saturday afternoon. We have no idea what has gone on in training during the week. We have no idea if players are carrying injuries or have personal problems that impact on their game. In fact we know very little out the inner workings of team preparation and what really goes on a football club. I wonder how many of us would enjoy seeing people wander off the street and telling us that we aren't very good at our own jobs - whatever it may be - by people who really know nothing about it?

Very good post there ParsonBlue.

Bowyer is still the right manager for us. he has brought in some very good players in and not cost us a lot of money like Cairney, Gestede and Conway plus some others.

it is also worth noting that we now have a PROPER scouting department in place at the request of Bowyer. so I think they deserve some praise aswell.

I will also apologise for my armchair fan comment yesterday. was abit uncalled for. But I still maintain that people at the game can give better view and report of the game tho.

Looking forward to the next game

[roverandout]

http://blog.melschwartz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/needle-record.jpeg

[Tom]

Good on you for apologising Chaddy

In the spirit of fairness I will apologise for my retort I just felt it was a bit OTT

[roverandout]

I accept your apology chaddy

[thenodrog]

Problem is who would you bring on and take off? Dunn would have been ideal for Rhodes but not available. A solid cm after 65 minutes but again nobody on bench. Take off conway, Rhodes or gestede for an inferior player? Think Bowyer got it right and the players have to take responsibility for this one.

Quite right. Shame for Bowyer that we dont still have the likes of Ped and N'Zonzi. Plenty on here have a continual requirement for a handy scapegoat.

I thought they had " a good chat with the players" this week to cut out the silly mistakes.

They probably did but problem is they didnt invite the Sheff Wed players.

is that the number to ring when you can't get a job at Rovers?

Samaritans perhaps?

It's just a shame for Maj that Jim'll Fix it has finished eh?

[thenodrog]

I am frustrated with bowyer this season. He has been very good in the market and has bought players that shouldHe seemed a lot more adventurous at the start of the swain and Evans and cairney dominated games in the centre. We played some bloody good football and pinned teams back. Then Evans got injured and for some unknown reason he decided that cairney wouldn't play central anymore.

Surely thats when he discovered that JR doesn't have enough in his locker to play the role of target man in front of a 5 man midfield.

[J*B]

Got to disagree on Pedersen Theno! The emergence of Conway (for 100k!!) has just underlined how bog average MGP was for his final years, for me. Great in his prime, but Conway is such a better left winger.

[thenodrog]

The thing is though Varney wasn't brought on until the 92 min anyway, why didn't GB react earlier, maybe after they pulled it back to 2-3

on 72 mins.

We might then have lost 4-3. It's an 'if my autie had balls' isn't it?

[thenodrog]

Interesting stuff regarding GB coming on at the end has one thinking of Stephen Kean applauding the fans at Wigan.

Maybe cos Bowyer was at that game as a 17 year old Forest fan.

[Al]

Good old Chaddy. Apologises but repeats the same thing over and over again.

Genuine question Chaddy. Is English really your first language? It's like trying to read a letter from a five year old. Do you never read it back before you press the "post" button?

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Went to the game and having had chance to stew things over I believe we we were actually very lucky to come away with a draw. Yes we scored 3 goals and led 3-1 but never at any time in the game did I feel we were completely in command.

The reason we scored 3 goals was that the Wednesday defence was quite poor and couldn't properly get to grips with Rhodes and Gestede. Listening to Radio Sheffield on the way home several of their fans agreed that defensively they were poor including Kirkland the keeper.

We didn't really retain the ball very well, often easily knocked off by some robust challenges from Wednesday players (pretty much the same as last season). They certainly played the better and more inventive football with lively wing play and a target man who caused us problems every time they attacked and grabbed two of their goals.

Yes it's extremely disappointing to not win (particularly conceding at the deathh but we could actually have lost this match!!!

A few poor decisions from the referee including failing to spot that the ball was over line before a cross for their second goal and a free kick given to them in injury time when a bounce up appeared to be appropriate and this ultimately led to their last goal.

But a vast improvement from the display there last year.

[Blue Cabbage]

Chaddy has said before he is dyslexic, cut him some slack