[Archived] Season Tickets and Stand Closures

[West Yorks Rover]

I remember excited chatter at the start of Venkys reign [of terror] that they might finish the job. More chance of them replacing the Riverside with giant mirror than rebuilding the stand.

In fact, pack everyone into two and a half stands and stick a big mirror up... I think I've just solved our conundrum, gumboots!

Ah !

Giant solar panels, no leccy bills !

[tomphil]

I remember excited chatter at the start of Venkys reign [of terror] that they might finish the job. More chance of them replacing the Riverside with giant mirror than rebuilding the stand.

In fact, pack everyone into two and a half stands and stick a big mirror up... I think I've just solved our conundrum, gumboots!

At least with the old Riverside they had a valid excuse to shut it when bits started falling off and put people in other parts. Certainly added to the atmosphere. Perhaps deggsy will be shuffling round in the dark with his screw driver come August.

Stuart! They, the ones we don't mention, would then turn up, just to look at themselves!

Ah the JW massive you mean, bit touchy them lads ...

[Mercer]

Pricing your product in the market place, and when to implement price increases, is one of the trickiest issues a business may face.

My guess is the number of 'real' season tickets (paid for by supporters as opposed to the freebies possibly created by the club to swell the numbers) is about 8,000.

Put a tenner on and that gives you an extra £80,000 which is chicken s h I t in the scheme of things.

And how can you justify pricing a ticket in JW centre at twice the cost of BBE / Riverside - absolute commercial illiteracy.

Where Rovers presently are, there is little danger of 'devaluing the product' as some have referred to.

Any additional value from a price increase would almost certainly be eroded by a lower number of ticket sales.

I would slash the price and aim to sell an additional few thousand more tickets and ensure that the relativities between 'standard' (BBE / Riverside) and premium (JW centre) are far closer.

Fans aren't interested in jam tomorrow. Reach the promised land and then start clawing back your value.

[Ben-2000]

The best that could be hoped for where fans pockets are concerned would be a price freeze, however would an increase to £249 really put off many existing ST holders?

[thenodrog]

I remember excited chatter at the start of Venkys reign [of terror] that they might finish the job. More chance of them replacing the Riverside with giant mirror than rebuilding the stand.

In fact, pack everyone into two and a half stands and stick a big mirror up... I think I've just solved our conundrum, gumboots!

Arsenals North Bank was quite effective a decade or so ago.

[gumboots]

I'd have no idea how to fill the ground Stuart. I just don't think selling cheap season tickets and then fining people for not attending would work. I think it would be unworkable in terms of collecting extra cash and even if you put it in the t & cs i think you'd find it hard to enforce. Success is what fills grounds. Our club has not had success for a while now, not even in relative terms and until it does our local population, and in particular the large numbers of asian heritage families in Blackburn and the kids of all backgrounds will not get behind the team. They see the clubs success or lack of it as a reflection on them. Burnley shirts are reappearing because for them getting to the premier league is the pinnacle of success - staying there would be dreamland. Get Rovers back up there and playing well and crowds will increase. How you get the club there is another problem

[ABBEY]

the answer to all that is ...get the venkys out and get the fans back all on the same hymn sheet until then it wont happen.

[thenodrog]

Could you cover the debt if they did abbey? I certainly couldn't. Our creditors would liquidate us in quick time. There would be no club left. If that decision was yours alone would you emulate a roman emperor and ceremoniously give the thumbs down?

[Hasta]

the answer to all that is ...get the venkys out and get the fans back all on the same hymn sheet until then it wont happen.

I think you're wrong Abbey. If we were in the top two come Easter next year there would be a huge increase in home attendance. If we got promoted that would become permanent. Whilst there will be a number of people with your views, there will also be a hell of a lot like my mate who is waiting to see if the Wigan game has anything riding on it before attending. At the moment nobody actually believes we can go up. Change that mentality (by actually making it possible) and people will come back through the turnstiles.

[AndyNeil]

the answer to all that is ...get the venkys out and get the fans back all on the same hymn sheet until then it wont happen.

Not trying to pick a fight, but how many people said that they'd come back when Kean went? Not many have...even if Venkys saw sense and put the club up for sale, who'd buy it?

[ABBEY]

Could you cover the debt if they did abbey? I certainly couldn't. Our creditors would liquidate us in quick time. There would be no club left. If that decision was yours alone would you emulate a roman emperor and ceremoniously give the thumbs down?

the decision wont be mine though.

[Ben-2000]

Taken from the Fans Forum minutes:

5. Season Tickets 2014/15

GC stated that there was no final agreement on pricing for 2014/15 as it was not yet clear in which division the team would be playing. JW asked about the truth in recent rumours that some areas of the ground may be closed for next season. There was discussion about the practicality of any closures and recognition of the probable resistance of existing season ticket holders in affected areas. GC said that ideas for change would always be considered and in fact had been every year in close seasons. The primary motivation for any changes would be to consolidate the support to improve atmosphere in the ground and not to save money.

JL asked whether it would be possible to stage the payments for parking to make it more affordable for fans. GC replied that he would make enquiries and report back.

[stanhillrover]

Ultimately playing in half empty stadia isn't a problem limited to Blackburn Rovers. The fact is that most clubs in this league, especially those who have experienced better times in recent years, cannot get close to filling their ground.

Middlesbrough have 20,000 empty seats every week. Sheffield Wednesday have crowds of 23,000 in a 40,000 stadium. Leeds have 15,000 empty, Ipswich 12,000 empty Wigan and Bolton have similar crowds to us.

Despite spending most of the season in the top two Burnley have had average crowds around 11,000 and a half empty stadium. Its only when promotion was within reach their crowds swelled slightly.

Unfortunately its just the 'way it is' in football. Unless you are clear at the top all season and certainties for promotion like Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle or a League One/Two club riding the crest of a wave like Bournemouth then you are going to have a lot of empty seats.

Rovers probably suffer more from this phenomenon than most. That's partly because the events of the last 20 years mean some feel that Championship football is below them having become accustomed to the top flight, in contrast to others like Sheffield, Ipswich, Watford and Derby who have had it nowhere near as good as us and so are probably very happy to be going watching decent Championship football.

Part of the problem is having a fantastic stadium built to be the home of the Champions at a time when 25,000 plus could be guaranteed through the gates. I suppose one thing that disappoints me is that whilst clubs like Leeds and Forest seem to have capitalised on their former glories and have attracted new supporters from their glory days who have stuck with them, for Rovers it doesn't seem to be the case. Considering our achievements in recent years we have pretty poor support from around the country when you might have expected new supporters to follow the club after 1995.

Most teams in this league have never had the need for a 30,000 stadium, Rovers did have the need for it and have shown even in the last four years that they could come close to filling it in the top league.

I don't think that poor crowds are a problem restricted to Rovers. The club still needs to do its upmost to shift as many tickets as possible and should aspire to gates of 14,000 - 15,000 a week in this division. That is the level being achieved by clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Middlesbrough and Birmingham and I see no sensible reason why Rovers should not be at a similar level. Talk of people staying away until Venkys go is getting tiresome and doing nobody any favours.

I don't buy for one minute that the club are considering closing parts of the stadium to 'improve atmosphere'. The only motivation driving Shaw and co. is the possibility of saving some money. I find it incomprehensible that whilst we continue to pay eye watering wages to dross like Leon Best, DJ Campbell and David Goodwillie that club management are considering shutting parts of Ewood to save a few thousand pounds a fortnight. Yet another example of inconsistencies at the club. Presumably Shaw wants to reduce running costs to the bare minimum so he can report back to India and demonstrate what a great job he's been doing at getting the club on an even keel. All the while his bosses are allowing £100,000 a week out on players who have no future at the club.

[Stuart]

Interesting comments from Rangers shareholder, Sandy Easdale:

Asked whether they would be in sufficient number in order to sustain Rangers in the short-term, Easdale said: "We've got all the numbers; me and [chief executive Graham Wallace] are confident and the board's quite confident that we'll meet those numbers.

"To answer the question, some of the fans will say when I answer it that, that it's blackmail or we're putting them into emotional blackmail.

"But I would say that, in 140 years, a lot of boards and directors came and went but there's only been one club.

"If you're loyal and you support the club, then come out and support the club. It doesn't matter who's running the club or who wants to run the club; the main thing is the loyal supporters need to come out, by a man, and stand by the club.

"That's what the club's been built on: loyalty."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27142340

Could similar be applied to Venky's tenure? Emotional blackmail or not, football clubs are ultimately based on loyalty of their supporters.

[West Yorks Rover]

Ultimately playing in half empty stadia isn't a problem limited to Blackburn Rovers. The fact is that most clubs in this league, especially those who have experienced better times in recent years, cannot get close to filling their ground.

Middlesbrough have 20,000 empty seats every week. Sheffield Wednesday have crowds of 23,000 in a 40,000 stadium. Leeds have 15,000 empty, Ipswich 12,000 empty Wigan and Bolton have similar crowds to us.

Despite spending most of the season in the top two Burnley have had average crowds around 11,000 and a half empty stadium. Its only when promotion was within reach their crowds swelled slightly.

Unfortunately its just the 'way it is' in football. Unless you are clear at the top all season and certainties for promotion like Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle or a League One/Two club riding the crest of a wave like Bournemouth then you are going to have a lot of empty seats.

Rovers probably suffer more from this phenomenon than most. That's partly because the events of the last 20 years mean some feel that Championship football is below them having become accustomed to the top flight, in contrast to others like Sheffield, Ipswich, Watford and Derby who have had it nowhere near as good as us and so are probably very happy to be going watching decent Championship football.

Part of the problem is having a fantastic stadium built to be the home of the Champions at a time when 25,000 plus could be guaranteed through the gates. I suppose one thing that disappoints me is that whilst clubs like Leeds and Forest seem to have capitalised on their former glories and have attracted new supporters from their glory days who have stuck with them, for Rovers it doesn't seem to be the case. Considering our achievements in recent years we have pretty poor support from around the country when you might have expected new supporters to follow the club after 1995.

Most teams in this league have never had the need for a 30,000 stadium, Rovers did have the need for it and have shown even in the last four years that they could come close to filling it in the top league.

I don't think that poor crowds are a problem restricted to Rovers. The club still needs to do its upmost to shift as many tickets as possible and should aspire to gates of 14,000 - 15,000 a week in this division. That is the level being achieved by clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Middlesbrough and Birmingham and I see no sensible reason why Rovers should not be at a similar level. Talk of people staying away until Venkys go is getting tiresome and doing nobody any favours.

I don't buy for one minute that the club are considering closing parts of the stadium to 'improve atmosphere'. The only motivation driving Shaw and co. is the possibility of saving some money. I find it incomprehensible that whilst we continue to pay eye watering wages to dross like Leon Best, DJ Campbell and David Goodwillie that club management are considering shutting parts of Ewood to save a few thousand pounds a fortnight. Yet another example of inconsistencies at the club. Presumably Shaw wants to reduce running costs to the bare minimum so he can report back to India and demonstrate what a great job he's been doing at getting the club on an even keel. All the while his bosses are allowing £100,000 a week out on players who have no future at the club.

The last time we were relegated : -

1st season average gate 19,000 +

2nd 20,000 +

The fans have had the p*ss taken out of them and many have said enough is enough.

I totally agree about Shaw, he's a ' small time ' operator, thinking he can impress the Rao's by saving a few bob, which in

reality is an absolute drop in the ocean, and will only serve to upset the fanbase further.

[AndyNeil]

If the prices were the same as they are now and we were in the Premier League competing, there is no doubt in my mind we'd still be getting 18,000+ for most home matches.

The reason a lot of people have stopped going is we got relegated - simple.

[tomphil]

Ultimately playing in half empty stadia isn't a problem limited to Blackburn Rovers. The fact is that most clubs in this league, especially those who have experienced better times in recent years, cannot get close to filling their ground.

Middlesbrough have 20,000 empty seats every week. Sheffield Wednesday have crowds of 23,000 in a 40,000 stadium. Leeds have 15,000 empty, Ipswich 12,000 empty Wigan and Bolton have similar crowds to us.

Despite spending most of the season in the top two Burnley have had average crowds around 11,000 and a half empty stadium. Its only when promotion was within reach their crowds swelled slightly.

Unfortunately its just the 'way it is' in football. Unless you are clear at the top all season and certainties for promotion like Leicester, West Ham, Newcastle or a League One/Two club riding the crest of a wave like Bournemouth then you are going to have a lot of empty seats.

Rovers probably suffer more from this phenomenon than most. That's partly because the events of the last 20 years mean some feel that Championship football is below them having become accustomed to the top flight, in contrast to others like Sheffield, Ipswich, Watford and Derby who have had it nowhere near as good as us and so are probably very happy to be going watching decent Championship football.

Part of the problem is having a fantastic stadium built to be the home of the Champions at a time when 25,000 plus could be guaranteed through the gates. I suppose one thing that disappoints me is that whilst clubs like Leeds and Forest seem to have capitalised on their former glories and have attracted new supporters from their glory days who have stuck with them, for Rovers it doesn't seem to be the case. Considering our achievements in recent years we have pretty poor support from around the country when you might have expected new supporters to follow the club after 1995.

Most teams in this league have never had the need for a 30,000 stadium, Rovers did have the need for it and have shown even in the last four years that they could come close to filling it in the top league.

I don't think that poor crowds are a problem restricted to Rovers. The club still needs to do its upmost to shift as many tickets as possible and should aspire to gates of 14,000 - 15,000 a week in this division. That is the level being achieved by clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Middlesbrough and Birmingham and I see no sensible reason why Rovers should not be at a similar level. Talk of people staying away until Venkys go is getting tiresome and doing nobody any favours.

I don't buy for one minute that the club are considering closing parts of the stadium to 'improve atmosphere'. The only motivation driving Shaw and co. is the possibility of saving some money. I find it incomprehensible that whilst we continue to pay eye watering wages to dross like Leon Best, DJ Campbell and David Goodwillie that club management are considering shutting parts of Ewood to save a few thousand pounds a fortnight. Yet another example of inconsistencies at the club. Presumably Shaw wants to reduce running costs to the bare minimum so he can report back to India and demonstrate what a great job he's been doing at getting the club on an even keel. All the while his bosses are allowing £100,000 a week out on players who have no future at the club.

Great post, problem is Brum, Boro and one or two others support has levelled or bottomed out at what it is now for a few years. here in Blackburn going off past history it keeps going down. It shouldn't do in the modern day after all the new fanbase the glory years built even despite the crackpots from Pune. The hardcore from an area this size with a club of Rovers stature should stay around 12/13k i.e approx. 10% of the population but it won't. It's bred into a lot to turn their backs when times are hard at the club sadly.

[West Yorks Rover]

If the prices were the same as they are now and we were in the Premier League competing, there is no doubt in my mind we'd still be getting 18,000+ for most home matches.

The reason a lot of people have stopped going is we got relegated - simple.

It appears though that a hell of a lot more have stopped going this time around, at least 5-6000 more than last time,

the reason seems pretty obvious to me.

[tomphil]

It appears though that a hell of a lot more have stopped going this time around, at least 5-6000 more than last time,

the reason seems pretty obvious to me.

Jack was still around last time and it was only a few years after winning the league, we really were in a false position then. Retained plenty of the 'new' support and everyone knew we'd go back up so a complete different mindset around the place. Of course Venkys & co's damage is the main reason in the last few years but people wouldn't have stuck around for long last time I don't reckon.

[West Yorks Rover]

Jack was still around last time and it was only a few years after winning the league, we really were in a false position then. Retained plenty of the 'new' support and everyone knew we'd go back up so a complete different mindset around the place. Of course Venkys & co's damage is the main reason in the last few years but people wouldn't have stuck around for long last time I don't reckon.

No I appreciate what you say but the fall off has been truly dramatic, in fact it started in the Prem in their 1st full season.

We dropped 2,500 average from the previous season.

[ABBEY]

If the prices were the same as they are now and we were in the Premier League competing, there is no doubt in my mind we'd still be getting 18,000+ for most home matches.

The reason a lot of people have stopped going is we got relegated - simple.

I know quite a few who have given up 100% on it until the lunes go . .. Simpler

[tomphil]

No I appreciate what you say but the fall off has been truly dramatic, in fact it started in the Prem in their 1st full season.

Yes true. If they'd have (or been able) to sack that p##### after relegation I think we'd have retained a few thousand more and have similar to Bolton who lost 5k on relegation.

[cn174]

The last time we were relegated : -

1st season average gate 19,000 +

2nd 20,000 +

Would be interesting to see how it changed within those two seasons. I'm guessing in the first year it started off relatively high before tailing off as we were complete pants. then in the second season the attendances increased as we got closer to promotion.

As an aside, I've just dug out our season tickets which were for the Blackburn End Upper:

1999-2000 = £299

2000-2001 = £289

2001-2002 = £365

[Mercer]

Still think we are seeing gate numbers massaged upwards for all sorts of reasons.

IMV, we have had a number of games where attendances have been sub 10,000.

I also suspect games are played with season ticket numbers which I think are overstated by the creation of free season tickets to be used at the club's discretion ('ghost tickets') eg count as part of the gate!

Find it difficult to believe anything that comes out of Ewood Park these days.

[West Yorks Rover]

Would be interesting to see how it changed within those two seasons. I'm guessing in the first year it started off relatively high before tailing off as we were complete pants. then in the second season the attendances increased as we got closer to promotion.

As an aside, I've just dug out our season tickets which were for the Blackburn End Upper:

1999-2000 = £299

2000-2001 = £289

2001-2002 = £365

I am only guessing, someone might know, but even regardless of the average gate, we must have sold 5-6k more ST's in either

of those relegated seasons than we sold this season or last.