[Archived] Great Expectations (Beyond Back or Sack)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

At every other club I can think of 47er, it's simple, - if the manager doesn't perform, he gets the sack. Nothing else matters and there's nothing else to it. The manager comes in, gets on with the job and is judged continuously, purely on how he does with results on the pitch. Here we have something totally different and the owners are open to being used. There's mileage and cash in friendship with the owners, dragging things out, taking it slowly, persuading Mrs D that things are improving and Bowyer knows that. His comments in the press, tell "me" that that's the way he personally would like to go. That will make a coach who never expected this kind of opportunity a multi millionnaire, if it comes off. He might never get another chance.

Cynical? Maybe. Football's full of characters who's only concern is their personal prosperity.

Den, life is full of characters who's only concern is their personal prosperity. Football is just a magnifying glass for this trait given the rewards available.

[den]

Den, life is full of characters who's only concern is their personal prosperity. Football is just a magnifying glass for this trait given the rewards available.

Yes, precisely Tyrone.

[47er]

At every other club I can think of 47er, it's simple, - if the manager doesn't perform, he gets the sack. Nothing else matters and there's nothing else to it. The manager comes in, gets on with the job and is judged continuously, purely on how he does with results on the pitch. Here we have something totally different and the owners are open to being used. There's mileage and cash in friendship with the owners, dragging things out, taking it slowly, persuading Mrs D that things are improving and Bowyer knows that. His comments in the press, tell "me" that that's the way he personally would like to go. That will make a coach who never expected this kind of opportunity a multi millionnaire, if it comes off. He might never get another chance.

Cynical? Maybe. Football's full of characters who's only concern is their personal prosperity.

I guess the crux is whether or not the manager hasn't performed. People on here seem pretty evenly divided. At the start of the season I predicted we'd finish 9th and all through it I've been saying we would not be promoted. So from that point of view Bowyer has performed but not spectacularly as his groupies seem to believe.

There does seem to be the basis of a good team here so I supported him being given till Christmas (without voting on it).

I did not want him to be appointed, I wanted an experienced manager but given the Raos propensity for disaster I have no faith in any future decision they make. So for me, he gets to start next season.

However, it makes no difference what I or any other supporter thinks, the Raos are a law unto themselves.

The only real end to our woes IMO will be when the Raos leave. Until then it's all around the margins.

But the next post is quite likely to say we can't survive without them!

[chaddyrovers]

Who is Bowyers agent?

who says he has got one?

[Simon Says]

who says he has got one?

It would be a surprise if he hasn't.

[den]

I guess the crux is whether or not the manager hasn't performed. People on here seem pretty evenly divided. At the start of the season I predicted we'd finish 9th and all through it I've been saying we would not be promoted. So from that point of view Bowyer has performed but not spectacularly as his groupies seem to believe.

There does seem to be the basis of a good team here so I supported him being given till Christmas (without voting on it).

I did not want him to be appointed, I wanted an experienced manager but given the Raos propensity for disaster I have no faith in any future decision they make. So for me, he gets to start next season.

However, it makes no difference what I or any other supporter thinks, the Raos are a law unto themselves.

The only real end to our woes IMO will be when the Raos leave. Until then it's all around the margins.

But the next post is quite likely to say we can't survive without them!

I wasn't making a judgement on how he's done so far, I was making a judgement on the "plan". Stretching things out benefits only one person at the club, - the manager. Talking about three transfer windows, remembering where we were and needing time can only result in lower targets - again, who benefits from that? It's simple for me. Get in a manager who wants results today and every day. Who knows where we'll be two years from now? This last season, or next season might have been, or will be our best chance.

[47er]

3 transfer windows is only 17 months away though? Considering the shambles we were in on the field and considering we are still a shambles everywhere else does it not take that long if you are on a very limited transfer budget with orders to cut costs even further?

You think his motives are venal, could it not be that, given the situation, his time-lines are simply realistic?

I'm offering the possibility and giving him the benefit of the doubt. You could be right and "Rip-Off Ewood"could still be underway.

It doesn't feel like that though to me tbh.

[Waggy76]

Come off it Waggy. I appreciate the break in the off season will mean the habit of not losing won't be as prominent. But tell me honestly, if you discount the fact the club is in the PL and not the Championship, would you feel more confident going into next season if you supported Newcastle or Rovers?

Maybe momentum is the wrong term, but the side should go into next season with a level of belief which wouldn't exist if we had been spanked in the last 12 games.

I appreciate that Rovers under Bowyer threw away the playoff opportunity, but after the last few horrendous seasons i'm not going to be made to feel guilty about looking forward to next season and seeing tentative signs of promise. I've had enough of frittering away my summers thinking about another nightmare season looming large.

Not sure , what Newcastle United has too do with anything ...

But the last time Newcastle were relegated they came back 1st time has champions , we are looking forward to stability for another season !

[Leonard Venkhater]

That is a good question

I could guess!

AAAGH! Don't tell me that!!!!

That would be like Jesus being represented by ..Max Clifford!!!...Well, you know what I mean....

[lraC]

who says he has got one?

An earlier post eluded to the fact that he does have one. I have never heard of him or anyone else talking about one. It came as a shock that our former youth team manager had an agent. I suspect that Bowyer doesn't have one to be honest and as a fan probably hope he doesn't. So far as I am concerned, the agents involved with transactions since out sale to the current owners, seem to have done nothing but damage!

[chaddyrovers]

I dont think Bowyer does have an agent. he wouldnt have needed one in the past and so i dont think he would have hired one this summer.

but we should see. maybe Kamy or other ITK might kno if he does. Nixon doesnt think he does but not 100% certain.

[patrickvalery]

Not sure , what Newcastle United has too do with anything ...

But the last time Newcastle were relegated they came back 1st time has champions , we are looking forward to stability for another season !

What Newcastle did 3-4 years ago, when FFP was a Platini pipe dream has nothing to do with anything. But the current situation there is relevant. They have had an awful end to the season. The players look like they can't be bothered, the fans are up in arms and the management seem to be facing the sack. I picked them as an example because they sum up how it feels to enter a summer on a downer. You think the ill feeling and poor run to the end of the season will help them when recruiting this summer? You think the fans who arrive on the first day of next season will be ready and willing to cheer the club on? The poor form the club has had during 2014 can impact on the start of next season. Whereas our good form can have the opposite affect. The squad seem happy and believe that progress is a very real possibility. This good feeling spreads. The players can expect to come back in to a vibrant atmosphere during pre-season. That has to be a positive going into next season does it not?

Then again i guess we might discover Bowyer has shamelessly recruited an agent in the next five minutes and the doom merchants will be out in force.

Sometimes Rovers fans amaze me. I'm no Rovers Fan who sees the world through rose tinted glasses, but sometimes it does feel as if some folk aren't happy unless theyre bloody miserable.

[Waggy76]

Newcastle are 9th in the Premier , we were roughly there when the Venkys came into town.....

I need say no more !

[patrickvalery]

Newcastle are 9th in the Premier , we were roughly there when the Venkys came into town.....

I need say no more !

But i'm not questioning the ability (or lack thereof) of Venky's. We all know they're a shambles. And i did say in my first post to you to discount the divisions we respectively occupy.

I won't argue with you that the club has fallen from grace in the most ungraceful manner possible. But sometimes it feels as if all the angst and frustration felt by the fans get directed at the one man (Bowyer) who has made a good fist of restoring some pride back into the club. Well, the eleven who wear the blue & white halves every saturday anyway.

[mattjansen]

I can't for the life off me see the good thing in sacking Gary now, he totally reformed the squad and brought in the players he wants and sent a few packing. Given the status when he took over he has done wonders, the base are British and also a few locals. Although we could be a lot better at closing games I think that comes with people settling in the team, with Dann out and both Henley and Kane losing form we haven't had a good back four for most of the season. But that's something im sure Gary will assess during summer.

Besides from defence I think we have a very good squad that can continue this good thing were on, bringing someone new in just starts the whole thing over. What if the big name don't like the players we got? Back to square one

[Willie Eckerslike]

It's pretty obvious that we have had the best season for a few years but we still finished 23 points behind second and were never in the top six at any point.

Even when they door to the play offs was open in front of us we didn't manage to get through it.

So the question isn't whether Bowyer has turned a poor outfit into a better one but whether you think that he and his coaching team can improve us significantly enough to get us into the top two next season.

I think we are looking at a similar season again next time if we keep things as they are on the management and coaching front.

[bazza]

This season has been GB's first as a rookie manager. He is learning the trade. He has had to learn fast and I think he has improved over the season.

He has made mistakes in his purchases, in his team selection, in his substitutions and the timing of them but experience and mistake-making are the best way to learn.

He has a lot of work to do this summer with ridding the club of unwanted players, bringing in a few more in key positions, promoting the young players who he thinks will make the step-up (e.g.Jack O'Connell) and sorting out his backroom staff, fitness and training methods; a Herculean task if ever there was one.

I am quite happy to leave him in charge for the foreseeable future.

[roverandout]

I think I would give him until Christmas, he deserved till then to see where we come midway through the season, these last dozen results have been promising, as long as rovers strengthen in the summer, I think a play-off place is the least we should expect

[yoda]

Don't know why people think a play off spot is the panacea, we only ever won one!

[roverandout]

yep and I was there!!!

[Rover_Shaun]

It's a difficult one regarding Bowyer. And one made harder to call by the lack of truth emanating from Ewood Park regarding the clubs true financial picture and the owners future plans once the parachute payments dry up.

I too am of the opinion that Bowyer may not have what it takes BUT the last 12 matches have made it harder to dispense with his services. In fact it would be pretty nonsensical, even with the massive question marks surrounding Bowyer's ability when the chips are down, to get rid of him now

At the beginning of the season I said I would be happy with mid table, based on the last 3 years. We have done better than that, however the final position is tinged with disappointment that we couldn't make the play-offs in what is a league bereft of any quality. It was there for the taking all season.

The question is:

Have we got as high as 8th because of Bowyer?

or

Have we finished as low as 8th because of Bowyer?

We need a manager who is adroit in all facets. I'm not interested in some hypothetical future value of any signings he makes. I just want a manager who can spot a player AND set up a team. We seem to have one without the other. Will that change next season given the defence is a constant colander and Bowyers favourite player is a donkey?

If the club is facing financial Armageddon once the parachute payments end then giving Bowyer time could be another huge and fatal mistake or an inspired decision.

If promotion is needed and we are off the pace by Xmas he has to go but then we will have lost a full season for a new man as he will need half a season to bed in leaving just one full season to get the club promoted and stave off the flying monkeys.

What I do know is that it just wouldn't be Rovers if there weren't shades of grey

[AllRoverAsia]

After following Rovers for 50++ years I have come to realise that I have no bloody idea what to expect for next season.

[tomphil]

The main thing for me about the argument of 'is it really progress or just stability' is the fact we now have a core of good players and a great platform to build on where as this time last season we didn't appear to have that. I'll view it as a bit of progress although the desire to settle for stability has probably cost us points at times this season which is annoying. No excuse next season unless Venkys pull it to bits we should comfortably make the play offs not withstanding a catalogue of injuries.I don't think for one minute we're good enough to go straight up or walk it to the play offs, it'll be a battle but one we are capable of. Is Bowyer the man to lead us there ? Still have my reservations but the last 11 games or so would say he is. .Game on !

[47er]

I wasn't making a judgement on how he's done so far, I was making a judgement on the "plan". Stretching things out benefits only one person at the club, - the manager. Talking about three transfer windows, remembering where we were and needing time can only result in lower targets - again, who benefits from that? It's simple for me. Get in a manager who wants results today and every day. Who knows where we'll be two years from now? This last season, or next season might have been, or will be our best chance.

In a previous post Den, you wrote "at every other club I can think of.....if the manager doesn't perform he gets the sack" so you were making a judgement on how he's performed this season and that's what I responded to!

I think he's done a good job in the circumstances, you don't. But only the Raos make that decision and until that changes we will continue to face crisis. Agree on that?

[den]

In a previous post Den, you wrote "at every other club I can think of.....if the manager doesn't perform he gets the sack" so you were making a judgement on how he's performed this season and that's what I responded to!

I think he's done a good job in the circumstances, you don't. But only the Raos make that decision and until that changes we will continue to face crisis. Agree on that?

Well I was saying that this "three transfer windows" criteria, coupled with his rebuttal of anything negative being said against the team performances, while making comments aimed at the owners rather than the fans in the LT, is a sign of him putting his personal position, before the clubs position.

However, I accept your views as well.