[Archived] Great Expectations (Beyond Back or Sack)

[jim mk2]

Bowyer's no different to any other employee in any other walk of life - he's in a good, well-paid job and he wants to keep it for as long as he can. There aren't many employees who would put their company (or club's) position above their own. He can be accused of sycophantism but that goes with the territory of many ambitious people in competitive organisations.

[Blueandwhitemike]

Reading his comments in the LT it seems like the three windows is more about getting rid of the deadwood than bringing players in. I was surprised by it as i think he's had two and the summer will be three so that should be enough for him to make it his team.

[martonrover]

Reading his comments in the LT it seems like the three windows is more about getting rid of the deadwood than bringing players in. I was surprised by it as i think he's had two and the summer will be three so that should be enough for him to make it his team.

If he thought Desai would buy it he'd be saying he needed another ten windows.

[den]

Bowyer's no different to any other employee in any other walk of life - he's in a good, well-paid job and he wants to keep it for as long as he can. There aren't many employees who would put their company (or club's) position above their own. He can be accused of sycophantism but that goes with the territory of many ambitious people in competitive organisations.

Glad you agree with me about Bowyer Jim.

However I certainly don't think many managers act that way.

[mattjansen]

Glad you agree with me about Bowyer Jim.

However I certainly don't think many managers act that way.

Might get you wrong here but do you mean that many put their club before themselves ?

[Amo]

How many windows did it take Souness to get us automatically-promoted? Two?

[JBiz]

How many windows did it take Souness to get us automatically-promoted? Two?

Different time, different league, different back story and a different squad.

Souness did not inherit a team chock full of overpaid aged dross.

[den]

Might get you wrong here but do you mean that many put their club before themselves ?

Yes I do.

Obviously they're all prepared to jump ship if something better comes up, but this argument of bringing in 21 players, then saying he needs another two or three transfer windows on top of that is insulting to the intelligence. If Dyche had taken that approach, preserving a draw against Yeovil, making no subs in games we weren't winning etc - would Burnley have gone up automatically? No, they wouldn't.

[Amo]

Souness did not inherit a team chock full of overpaid aged dross.

Peacock, Ward, Ostenstad, Blake, Frandsen, Dailly, Grayson et al?

[JBiz]

I'm not saying he inherited world beaters, but he certainly didn't have 4/5 players earning 100% of the clubs entire turnover.

[Amo]

I'm not saying he inherited world beaters, but he certainly didn't have 4/5 players earning 100% of the clubs entire turnover.

I'm sorry, but has Bowyer been hamstrung in bringing in players? He brought in two teams' worth of players last season.

[JBiz]

I'm sorry, but has Bowyer been hamstrung in bringing in players? He brought in two teams' worth of players last season.

And also released or paid off another 20? The expensively assembled agent advised or Portuguese dross. Let's not kid ourselves, the comparison you suggested is pointless and a bad example.

[Amo]

And also released or paid off another 20? The expensively assembled agent advised or Portuguese dross. Let's not kid ourselves, the comparison you suggested is pointless and a bad example.

Only because it bursts your bubble.

If the unloading of all this deadwood had hogtied Bowyer from bringing in his own targets, then your argument would have merit. As it stands, you can't deny that Bowyer has had virtually free rein to sign a huge turnover of new players.

[mattjansen]

Only because it bursts your bubble.If the unloading of all this deadwood had hogtied Bowyer from bringing in his own targets, then your argument would have merit. As it stands, you can't deny that Bowyer has had virtually free rein to sign a huge turnover of new players.

How many did he bring in that we're free? 10 or 11 I think. Don't know what cairney,gestede and Conway cost but only Evans and Marshall merited any transfers sum out of the other new players. In the same period he sold for about £5 mil and let some high earners leave on loan (dj,best). I'm not bowyer but I don't think his replacement for those players, if he could choose freely, would be Varney, feeney and dabo.

[patrickvalery]

Don't mean to nit-pick, but i'm not sure Souness had to deal with transfer windows at all. He was fortunate to be able to bring in players when he saw fit which would boost the squad for the run in and cover for injuries. I'm pretty sure the window system came in much later and if you ask most managers, it is a hinderance. Rovers under Souey and Uncle Jack had some serious clout and when he flet the squad needed improving he rarely got told no.

[DE.]

Players brought in: O'Sullivan, Judge, Eastwood, Kane, Taylor, Campbell, Kilgallon, Marrow, Spurr, Cairney, Evans, Songo'o, Tumwa, Marshall, Gestede, Mahoney, Dabo, Conway, Varney, Keane, Feeney.

U21:: O'Sullivan, Tumwa, Mahoney

On Loan: Kane, Varney, Keane, Feeney, Dabo

First Team: Judge, Eastwood, Taylor, Kilgallon, Campbell, Marrow, Spurr, Cairney, Evans, Marshall, Gestede, Conway, Songo'o

Breaking down his transfers rather than referring to a figure constantly makes things a little clearer, and that's without considering the amount of players released/sold.

The U21 players can be dismissed as they'll be on a low wage and all clubs need to sign younger players for the future.

The loan players we currently have are a bit of a disappointment. Haven't seen anything of Dabo, no idea what he's here for. Kane was worth a punt but hasn't had a good season. Varney and Feeney are hard workers but lack quality - however they've only been here since March so no major loss there. Keane has been excellent and much needed after Dann's departure.

First team signings - how anyone can complain is beyond me. Of the 13 there, 8 have contributed very well to the team. Campbell wasn't even a GB signing so it'd be very harsh to criticise him for that one. Judge and Marrow have been loaned back out, and will both be on wages low enough that we're making no major loss on them. Eastwood is alright as a reserve keeper, although I'm not sure what the point of Songo'o is.

There are many legitimate gripes regarding Bowyer, but the transfer market simply isn't one of them IMO.

[Howler]

He's done a pretty good job in my view, not sure what else we could reasonably expect at the start of teh season.

Deserves to stay on and review the postion 10-15 games in if we have a poor start. We have the makings of a good team, especially with Conway and Gestede added. Needs to find a good keeper though.

[Majiball]

Mahoney cost 100K down with up to 500K on top, he will be getting paid well as other clubs where after him. You can't just dismiss that and he's played once for the 1st team anyway. Even if he's only on say 2K a week, that is 200K spent on a player we released for free. Pennies make pounds, it all adds up. Put all the players you have dismissed together and we could have bought one quality player for our 1st 11, improving our chances of getting promoted.

[DE.]

We might have had a budget for the youth team along with the first team. Difficult to say. He's only 17 though so I doubt he's on 2k a week. I don't think it's advisable to ignore all youth prospects in favour of bringing in players for the first team, we brought in a more than adequete amount there.

[Amo]

Don't mean to nit-pick, but i'm not sure Souness had to deal with transfer windows at all. He was fortunate to be able to bring in players when he saw fit which would boost the squad for the run in and cover for injuries. I'm pretty sure the window system came in much later and if you ask most managers, it is a hinderance. Rovers under Souey and Uncle Jack had some serious clout and when he flet the squad needed improving he rarely got told no.

We had a negative-spend in Souey's promotion season.

Like any manager, Bowyer has to live within his means, but he's had more money to spend on players than most in this division, with the freedom to make transfers and loan signings when needed. It doesn't bode well if Bowyer genuinely believes he needs another two transfer windows before he has a squad capable of getting promoted. Sounds like he's already getting his excuses in early.

[Daremz]

Lots of sensitive talking on this one and after our final run, everybody is looking forward to the start of the new season. Three facts to sum it up from my point of view:

• Our strike force and attacking midfielders/wingers are as good as it gets in the Championship. If we don't lose any of those players (in which, for some reason, I have quite some faith) we can expect a lot of them next season

• Our defense is extremely weak. We can't seem to 'kill' matches by just parking the bus and concede way too many goals in the final stages

• Compared to one year ago, there finally seems to be some strategy throughout parts of BRFC.

A combination of that's enthusiasm, skepticism & realism.

How can we become a certain contender over the summer/next season?

- In terms of new players: two quality CB's (Duffy on loan from Everton and a throughout experienced CB, although I don't have a clue who that should be) and a David/Jermain Jones type of defensive midfielder should give us the balance we need. If Robbo leaves, a quality new goalkeeper is vital too.

- In terms of tactics: play like we play vs. Wigan, Brum and Wednesday over the last few matches. Go out and attack them.

[JBiz]

We had a negative-spend in Souey's promotion season.

Like any manager, Bowyer has to live within his means, but he's had more money to spend on players than most in this division, with the freedom to make transfers and loan signings when needed. It doesn't bode well if Bowyer genuinely believes he needs another two transfer windows before he has a squad capable of getting promoted. Sounds like he's already getting his excuses in early.

There is a real difference between assembling a squad for promotion and "sorting the squad out"

We have millions flying out the windows every week on players who have never been picked for one reason or another. Most with at least 18 months left?

Best is the only player I would even moderately rate but his attitude is proven to be poor. Including him Orr, Robbo, DJ, goodwillie, Dickson, and a few others- they're combined wages will likely be more than the rest of the squad.

The odd one out is DJ (as the only one signed by GB) as he would likely have played if not for gambling allegations. We needed to be out of the headlines so he had to leave.

[broadsword]

Any manager that gets shot of Bradley Orr can't be all bad.

[Rover_Shaun]

- In terms of boardroom: The start is there, but Venky's will stay...

Eh? What? How?

[patrickvalery]

We had a negative-spend in Souey's promotion season.

Like any manager, Bowyer has to live within his means, but he's had more money to spend on players than most in this division, with the freedom to make transfers and loan signings when needed. It doesn't bode well if Bowyer genuinely believes he needs another two transfer windows before he has a squad capable of getting promoted. Sounds like he's already getting his excuses in early.

Did we? I must admit I wouldn't have a clue about that. I bow down to your superior knowledge on that toppers. And thats not meant to be nearly as sarcastic as it sounds by the way.

Im not looking to get into an argument about it. I was just saying that Souey didn't have to build his squad during predetermined windows and that he was fortunate to be in a club which had some muscle back then. Due to huge debt, inept administrators and owners and ffp on the horizon, we aren't that same force anymore.

And also, im not sure Bowyer said he needs 2-3 windows to get a squad capable of promotion. Didnt he say "back to where we should be"? Conjecture of course, but who knows where Bowyer thinks we should be. Maybe he shares the opinion of many on here that think we should still br mid table in the PL. Is 2-3 windows with that aim so bad?