[Archived] Great Expectations (Beyond Back or Sack)

[USABlue]

We wont go anywhere if we concede as many goals as we have done this season.

Surely has to offer Robbo at least 12 months.

Robbo, why? If you dont want to see as many goals conceded might want to think abour replacing him. With who? Now thwre is the problem

[Majiball]

We might have had a budget for the youth team along with the first team. Difficult to say. He's only 17 though so I doubt he's on 2k a week. I don't think it's advisable to ignore all youth prospects in favour of bringing in players for the first team, we brought in a more than adequete amount there.

He supposedly had premier league teams after him, they will happily part with that kind of money for a youth team player. You should check out Liverpool academies car park for the players, there must be a couple of millions quids worth of motor vehicles there. There's no way he turned down the kind of money those clubs can offer just to sign for Rovers on some £200 a week. I just think at a time where our finances are out of control more prudence should be sought in spending it. Mahoney may turn out to be great business in 3-4 years, but in 3-4 years we could be shafted if not promoted.

[DE.]

He supposedly had premier league teams after him, they will happily part with that kind of money for a youth team player. You should check out Liverpool academies car park for the players, there must be a couple of millions quids worth of motor vehicles there. There's no way he turned down the kind of money those clubs can offer just to sign for Rovers on some £200 a week. I just think at a time where our finances are out of control more prudence should be sought in spending it. Mahoney may turn out to be great business in 3-4 years, but in 3-4 years we could be shafted if not promoted.

If Liverpool or any other premier league team genuinely wanted him, they would have had him. Are you saying we outmuscled them financially? I can't see that. The reason we got him is most likely because the bigger clubs weren't sure about him and are happy to let us test him out before bidding £1-2m further down the line if he turns out to be decent. In this league 18 year old players can easily play regularly if they have the talent.

If we do go bust, I'm sure people won''t be pointing to buying three U21 players as the reason for it, regardless!

[Majiball]

If Liverpool or any other premier league team genuinely wanted him, they would have had him. Are you saying we outmuscled them financially? I can't see that. The reason we got him is most likely because the bigger clubs weren't sure about him and are happy to let us test him out before bidding £1-2m further down the line if he turns out to be decent. In this league 18 year old players can easily play regularly if they have the talent.

If we do go bust, I'm sure people won''t be pointing to buying three U21 players as the reason for it, regardless!

Robbie Cotton at Blackburn Rovers was on a supposed 5K a week. If your willing to pay 500K for a player you don't pay him scholarship wages of £70.00 a week.

My point is and always was spunking 200K here and there adds up to bigger amounts at the end. 3 potential kids or 1 1st 11 player, which would you choose?

[DE.]

Considering how bloated our first team squad is already, I'd rather get some younger players in who we can call upon when the higher paid first teamers inevitably leave and need replacing on a pittance.

[Baz]

How many did he bring in that we're free? 10 or 11 I think. Don't know what cairney,gestede and Conway cost but only Evans and Marshall merited any transfers sum out of the other new players. In the same period he sold for about £5 mil and let some high earners leave on loan (dj,best). I'm not bowyer but I don't think his replacement for those players, if he could choose freely, would be Varney, feeney and dabo.

Soueys signings here: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/blackburn-rovers/transfers/verein_164_2000_default_default_alle_a_default.html

Net spend 900k.

Have a look at the names of some of those signings, and more importantly to me you can see the plan. For my money, bowyer has a scattergun approach to his signings, how long where we left with 2 centre halves, with 2 dodgy keepers but wingers aplenty. Yes some have worked out ok, but how many of those in Sounesses list didnt?

[Baz]

Robbo, why? If you dont want to see as many goals conceded might want to think abour replacing him. With who? Now thwre is the problem

I'd think about replacing him if we had a better alternative, we don't, I wouldnt trust Bowyer to pick someone better, and as a priority its easier to keep him than look and spend budget on a replacement, therefore keep him.

If you want to reduce goals conceded, surely its midfield, defence and formation you need to look at too.

[thenodrog]

Soueys signings here: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/blackburn-rovers/transfers/verein_164_2000_default_default_alle_a_default.html

Net spend 900k.

Have a look at the names of some of those signings, and more importantly to me you can see the plan. For my money, bowyer has a scattergun approach to his signings, how long where we left with 2 centre halves, with 2 dodgy keepers but wingers aplenty. Yes some have worked out ok, but how many of those in Sounesses list didnt?

George Weahs cousin.

Tbh any comparison is apples and pears. Our recent history has destroyed our standing. Back then us and Fulham were the championship clubs to be at.

[thenodrog]

I'd think about replacing him if we had a better alternative, we don't, I wouldnt trust Bowyer to pick someone better, and as a priority its easier to keep him than look and spend budget on a replacement, therefore keep him.

If you want to reduce goals conceded, surely its midfield, defence and formation you need to look at too.

Not enough. There should be 11 defenders when the opposition is in possession. Pulis has illustrated the worth of that philosophy at palace and Barcelona have built their success on it.

[Rover_Shaun]

George Weahs cousin.

The, forever, stick to beat him with. It was funny though LOL

It was all going pete tong when he left but he's still the 2nd most decorated Rovers manager since 1928.

That team he build in 2001 shows what you can do when you spread the wealth and don't blow your budget for the next few years on a luxury striker.........albeit Souness was blessed with a few good players from when we went down like Duff, Jansen and Flitty,

[Jimmy612]

The, forever, stick to beat him with. It was funny though LOL

It was all going pete tong when he left but he's still the 2nd most decorated Rovers manager since 1928.

That team he build in 2001 shows what you can do when you spread the wealth and don't blow your budget for the next few years on a luxury striker.........albeit Souness was blessed with a few good players from when we went down like Duff, Jansen and Flitty,

It was all going Pete Tong at least a year before that. Amoruso, Ferguson, Stead (God love him for his 6 goals), Dickov (never a bad word to say about him but first choice striker???). The season we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was desperate; The state he left us in when Hughes came in was absolutely tragic. How he dug us out of that I'll never know.

[47er]

The, forever, stick to beat him with. It was funny though LOL

It was all going pete tong when he left but he's still the 2nd most decorated Rovers manager since 1928.

That team he build in 2001 shows what you can do when you spread the wealth and don't blow your budget for the next few years on a luxury striker.........albeit Souness was blessed with a few good players from when we went down like Duff, Jansen and Flitty,

And Dunny don't forget!

[Blue blood]

A few thoughts on next season:

Is it a question of what we expect or what we need?

What we need is promotion. Anything else is financial suicide - if it's not too late.

There may be some debate as to how good we are. There's none about what we need. With our finances, we have to get promoted next season - this has to be the target - regardless of how realistic this is, because if we don't get it, we'll be in so much debt and trouble it's untrue. Not scaremongering but any cursory glance at our finances or financial figures concerning the club will show this is true.

On this season's performances play-offs is a minimum expectation

At times we've been unplayable. We've a good core squad of players. Despite a rookie manager and a new team, we've got within shouting distance of the playoffs. In fact had we not shot ourselves in the foot (repeatedly) by throwing away points we should comfortably have been in the playoffs. A bit more continuity and Bowyer having more experience, along with keeping the team together, suggests we should progress to the play-off places. This is assuming Bowyer has learnedfrom his mistakes.

Is Bowyer learning?

If so then we have a good shout at promotion. If not, we're just going to waste another season. I think most people would say he's done a decent job - the question mark remains over whether he can step it up a level. Namely by learning from his mistakes and wising up tactically. I've a few reservations on this score, but as it looks like he's staying this will perhaps be the most crucial improvement needed for us to gain promotion.

Finally I'm a tad worried about Bowyer thinking we need 2 or 3 more windows. It seems to be buying himself a lot more time and getting in excuses - a very worrying trend in Rovers managers. Firstly it's inaccurate as with better tactical acumen we should have got playoffs AND he's already brought a large number of players in. It's misleading to suggest that there's masses of work to be done in shaping the team. He's got a team capable of getting there and he's already done a lot of work to the squad.

Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, given our finances in 3 windows time we'd be selling our team, not having it completed. 3 windows from now if we weren't about to get promoted, we'd be looking at life with no parachute payments. Not sure how he thinks we'll have Gestede, Cairney et al here with an even bigger financial black hole looming. If Bowyer genuinely thinks it'll take 3 windows to be ready for a promotion push or be properly ready to mount a challenge we're in trouble. By then the finances must well and truly have taken their toll on us, and we'll be looking down not up.

[K-Hod]

In some respects, there has been progress made, the league doesn't lie, and we're higher than we were last season.

But, when the play-offs were there for the taking, and we didn't grasp it, that will be a black mark against Bowyer for me.

We only 'went for it' when it was too late...

[mattjansen]

If Bowyer genuinely thinks it'll take 3 windows to be ready for a promotion push or be properly ready to mount a challenge we're in trouble. By then the finances must well and truly have taken their toll on us, and we'll be looking down not up.

"Bowyer believes the club is still at least two transfer windows away from having a squad ‘back to where it should be’."

What i think he means by that is a squad without all the deadwood and actually being able to use a full squad that has cover in all areas, imagine yourself putting the salaries given to DJ,Best,Etuhu and Goodwillie on players that can actually contribute to the team.

[Blue blood]

"Bowyer believes the club is still at least two transfer windows away from having a squad ‘back to where it should be’."

What i think he means by that is a squad without all the deadwood and actually being able to use a full squad that has cover in all areas, imagine yourself putting the salaries given to DJ,Best,Etuhu and Goodwillie on players that can actually contribute to the team.

It's a pretty ambiguous statement at best. Personally to me it seems to be remarks made for India promoting himself for longevity. And even if your interpretation is correct - it's a reasonable interpretation - it's still very worrying.

One we don't have that time, two which manager doesn't have players that don't fit in and drain the resources, and three this season showed we don't need to have the full squad to be able to get near the playoffs - we could (perhaps should?) have made it with the squad we have. Even with this interpretation it seems to be excuse central at best, and a silly comment to make.

[den]

What i think he means by that is a squad without all the deadwood and actually being able to use a full squad that has cover in all areas, imagine yourself putting the salaries given to DJ,Best,Etuhu and Goodwillie on players that can actually contribute to the team.

And if he brings in another 8 players with that money, what happens to the 21 he's already brought in?

Plan, what plan?

Crazy for any club, never mind one losing millions.

[Rover_Shaun]

The season we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was desperate;

In souness's last full season we finished 15th a full 11 points clear of the drop having won 4 and drawn 1 of the last 6 games. Including beating Man Utd at Home and Everton Away

Albeit with those 6 games left we were 16th, joint 3rd from bottom on goal difference. It wasn't as desperate as the year after when we got off to a terrrible start under Souness.

However without Souness we'd have been languishing in the Championship with a cloud over us, akin to the present day under Bowyer, and he won the league cup. So now that time has passed we can thankfully gloss over the last desperate days of a team and manager still trying to come to terms with the higher league and just remember the promotion and league cup win

Ah, for the glory days of the WHOLE Souness era compared to now

[mattjansen]

It's a pretty ambiguous statement at best. Personally to me it seems to be remarks made for India promoting himself for longevity. And even if your interpretation is correct - it's a reasonable interpretation - it's still very worrying.

One we don't have that time, two which manager doesn't have players that don't fit in and drain the resources, and three this season showed we don't need to have the full squad to be able to get near the playoffs - we could (perhaps should?) have made it with the squad we have. Even with this interpretation it seems to be excuse central at best, and a silly comment to make.

I cant think of any other team that has that much deadwood in the squad, certainly not with that amount in salary, might be wrong. Its kinda funny with the playoffs, not many thought it was possible because the squad was not good enough, then its Garys fault and the squad should have coasted it.

And if he brings in another 8 players with that money, what happens to the 21 he's already brought in?

Plan, what plan?

Crazy for any club, never mind one losing millions.

Five was loans and are gone, two were defenders which need replacing aparently. Dont think we need eight players, defence needs three or four depending on Olsson leaving or not, Songo given chance, O'Connell given chance.

[Rover_Shaun]

Songo'o hasn't had a chance because like Marrow and Judge he isn't up to it.

Some odd panic signings were made in the early days of the summer as well as Dabo

Will Bowyer ever explain Dabo? LOL

[thenodrog]

The, forever, stick to beat him with. It was funny though LOL

It was all going pete tong when he left but he's still the 2nd most decorated Rovers manager since 1928.

That team he build in 2001 shows what you can do when you spread the wealth and don't blow your budget for the next few years on a luxury striker.........albeit Souness was blessed with a few good players from when we went down like Duff, Jansen and Flitty,

Dont forget a young Dunny! One hod carrier and three violinists. Those four added to the squad and Robinson fit from the start would have seen us absolutely walk this Division.

[thenodrog]

It was all going Pete Tong at least a year before that. Amoruso, Ferguson, Stead (God love him for his 6 goals), Dickov (never a bad word to say about him but first choice striker???). The season we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was desperate; The state he left us in when Hughes came in was absolutely tragic. How he dug us out of that I'll never know.

Hughes / Bowens version on the Souness years would certainly differ from the misty eyed nostalgic one that keeps getting trotted out I'd suggest. I've said before that there was talk after the club qualified for Europe in 6th position that Spurs were after Souness. If he had gone then he would hold legendary status at Ewood but unfortunately he didn't and ultimately his departure not only tarnished his reputation but also left a bad taste in the mouth.

Finally I'm a tad worried about Bowyer thinking we need 2 or 3 more windows.

As I've said before if you can think of a sure fire way to get inherited players that he doesn't want to rip their own over inflated contracts up then you had better give him a call asap.

[den]

As I've said before if you can think of a sure fire way to get inherited players that he doesn't want to rip their own over inflated contracts up then you had better give him a call asap.

The inherited players don't come into it Gord. They haven't stopped him bringing in around 20 of his own. Who exactly benefits from a plan which spreads a very large transfer outlay (for this league) over two or three years - a rookie manager, or a club facing huge debts, huge losses, a transfer embargo and a very uncertain future?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Songo'o hasn't had a chance because like Marrow and Judge he isn't up to it.

Some odd panic signings were made in the early days of the summer as well as Dabo

Will Bowyer ever explain Dabo? LOL

Songo is doing well in Scotland by all accounts.

Judge - we will possibly see a profit on.

Marrow - given he covers most defensive positions - was surprised we didn't keep as a squad player (possibly keeping the wage bill down took precedent).

Dabo - is a strange one - possibly struggled to settle in this country - who knows ?

[thenodrog]

Appears to be a bigger issue with you than the performance of the team den. Might I suggest that until you see the wages and costs of both sets (which I doubt you or I ever will ) that your opinion is just speculative. Furthermore I know you don't go much but imo the likes of Gestede, Cairney, Taylor, Evans, Marshall, Conway, Spurr and even Judge are in the main strong players and valid signings. Keanes been good too. Doesn't look so bad when half of them are solid 1st X1 players. How many loanees are in your 20 btw?

If you want to make a point about poor signings and wasted money then how do you view Murphy, Etohu (doing his best to tap up the waitresses for him and his 'guests' in his Bburn End box on Sat btw) Best and all those useless Carlos Kickaballs? Bowyer wasn't the one to spew 16m over 4 seasons on Jordan Rhodes either. In fact if Bowyer had been in charge back then I doubt we'd have signed JR.