[Archived] Great Expectations (Beyond Back or Sack)

[onlyonejackwalker]

Lost count of the number of times Bowyers results have been forgiven with association to the 'novice manager learning' comments. The best way to avoid that is of course avoiding over promoting a novice in the first place.

Seems that many fans believed we would finish mid-table prior to the season, anywhere between 8th and 12th. If that is the case then Bowyer has only achieved what many believed realistic with the squad already in place and there is little to suggest he has over achieved, or done particularly well.

Most agree our defensive frailties have cost us this season. Most informed commentators recommend building from the back. For some reason Bowyer knew better and left us isloated for the best part of three months without a decent goalkeeper. (Awarding a longer contract to one of them in he process). Thus impacting negatively on the entire defensive platform and confidence of those charged with protecting our goal. Since November the 24th (Pulis arriving) Palace are second in the defensive league form behind Chelsea and ahead of City, or were prior to the Liverpool game. Makes me wonder why Dann couldnt cut it defensively here as he has shown a marked improvement under a quality manager in Pulis at a much higher level since January.

Sick of reading 'give him more time' said with absolute certainty likes it actually means something. Time for what? To learn?

Not getting carried away with the late burst of results when the pressure was off. Our gargantuan squad was always going to kick in as others tired, suffered injuries and loss of form towards the end of a demanding season. What about when the pressure was on?

Tailor the argument how you want, but with the ability to sign almost two new teams, the existing squad of players in place, PL training and playing facilities, zero interference from above, huge support from the terraces, his own backroom in place and bearing in mind about 8 teams in this division are absolutely pish with little hope of promotion then clearly Bowyer has had it much easier than many at this level.

I know its not a popular view, 'what about having to tell agents that players aren't wanted, have to go out on loan, need to train with the reserves', people cry. Well that's hardly difficult freezing people out and happens all the time. It is only a major problem if you cannot go and sign replacements and Bowyer has been fully supported in that area.

I do like the emphasis on youth. But that's more relevant to the 'value of the squad' going forward and nothing appears to have changed in the general reasoning and strategy of buying cheap to flog for profit.

When Allardyce was potted we took a cheap option to save around a million per year. Bowyer remains a cheaper option than those with something written on their CV other than 'decent guy trying to learn'.

Totally non-plussed whether Bowyer stays or goes. If it was my money being waxed I'd follow a professional recruitment process to see who was interested and available and then recruit the most suitable applicant. He has been handsomely paid for a steady away job. Theno wants people to name those who may be suitable as replacements, but somehow fails to understand we don't know who may be available, or whether they would wish to come. A bit like guessing which players are coming next year. Completely pointless without being armed with some facts and supporting information. He can let us all know who he wants to replace the struggling Rhodes, or the desperate Hanley if he feels it so important to speculate wildy.

Push for promotion? Or was 8th the target this year? Seriously? Hard to fathom if so. What's the target next year? Continuous improvment up to 7th place?

If the job was so difficult and challenging why on earth did Bowyer jump at the opportunity? Ermmm, because it wasn't and making excuses for him after the event will now suit him perfectly. It remains a dream job and many suitably qualified managers would be interested. Two or three more windows? Multi-millionaire status achieved by then. I would want the same if I was in charge.

[den]

Appears to be a bigger issue with you than the performance of the team den. Might I suggest that until you see the wages and costs of both sets (which I doubt you or I ever will ) that your opinion is just speculative.

Don't need to see wages and costs Gordon, because we know the club has lost a huge amount of money. Shaw tells us that we're facing a transfer ban because of FFP, so it's reasonable to think we're still losing millions.

Seems to me that the current " strategy", if you can call it that, is so risky. You have to ask why these things are being put into the public domain. If a club in this league wants to get out of it, no - needs desperately to get out of it, while taking into account FFP and has had good money to spend on players, then the focus has to be this season, if not last season. Again, for me, looking ahead another two years or so, still with no guarantees - is gambling hugely with the clubs future.

[thenodrog]

Most agree our defensive frailties have cost us this season. Most informed commentators recommend building from the back. For some reason Bowyer knew better and left us isloated for the best part of three months without a decent goalkeeper. (Awarding a longer contract to one of them in he process). Thus impacting negatively on the entire defensive platform and confidence of those charged with protecting our goal. Since November the 24th (Pulis arriving) Palace are second in the defensive league form behind Chelsea and ahead of City, or were prior to the Liverpool game. Makes me wonder why Dann couldnt cut it defensively here as he has shown a marked improvement under a quality manager in Pulis at a much higher level since January.

Dann has NOT improved defensively....... Crystal Palace HAVE improved defensively.

Danny Gabbidon.................

"Wales international Gabbidon says the 55-year-old former Stoke boss - who named Dave Kemp as his new technical coach on Friday - has got the whole side working as a defensive unit. The former Cardiff and West Ham centre-back believes that his philosophy has also helped the team create more attacking openings. "I think he does not love just the back four, but the whole team defending together," the 34-year-old told BBC London 94.9.

"Maybe earlier in the season that was something we were not really getting right. He definitely does pride himself on the back four and I think he sees that as the starting point for everything. "If we are solid and strong then it gives us a platform for the other players to do their stuff at the other end of the pitch. "It has been good and we have done a lot of work on the defensive side of things and I think it is showing in our performances. "We are looking a lot more organised and a lot harder to beat. Alongside that we are creating chances at the other end which we weren't maybe doing enough of either. "You can look at it and say he is a defensive kind of coach but we also seem to be creating more chances now with how we are playing as well. It is working well."

This should be pinned up at Brockhall. Our 'brittleness' is cos too many of our squad are ball watchers and can't be bothered tracking back when the other team is in possession! That is one of the few improvements necessary for next season. Those old enough will remember the fantastic work ethic of the entire squad and especially Ripley and Wilcox. The defensive capability of Alan Shearer during open play and especially at set pieces was exemplary too.

[thenodrog]

Don't need to see wages and costs Gordon, because we know the club has lost a huge amount of money. Shaw tells us that we're facing a transfer ban because of FFP, so it's reasonable to think we're still losing millions.

Seems to me that the current " strategy", if you can call it that, is so risky. You have to ask why these things are being put into the public domain. If a club in this league wants to get out of it, no - needs desperately to get out of it, while taking into account FFP and has had good money to spend on players, then the focus has to be this season, if not last season. Again, for me, looking ahead another two years or so, still with no guarantees - is gambling hugely with the clubs future.

So despite being worried by relegation to the 1st Div at one point last spring you see no need to change the playing staff? How risky would that have been to go through another season with those over paid flakes plodding around just going through the motions every saturday? It's quite obvious that Bowyer drew a line under some players and wrote them off and fortunately the Rao's backed him to replace them.

As such I believe that he has done a good job and but for the spectre of FFP would show a profit on his transfer dealings.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Dann has NOT improved defensively....... Crystal Palace HAVE improved defensively.

Danny Gabbidon.................

"Wales international Gabbidon says the 55-year-old former Stoke boss - who named Dave Kemp as his new technical coach on Friday - has got the whole side working as a defensive unit. The former Cardiff and West Ham centre-back believes that his philosophy has also helped the team create more attacking openings. "I think he does not love just the back four, but the whole team defending together," the 34-year-old told BBC London 94.9.

"Maybe earlier in the season that was something we were not really getting right. He definitely does pride himself on the back four and I think he sees that as the starting point for everything. "If we are solid and strong then it gives us a platform for the other players to do their stuff at the other end of the pitch. "It has been good and we have done a lot of work on the defensive side of things and I think it is showing in our performances. "We are looking a lot more organised and a lot harder to beat. Alongside that we are creating chances at the other end which we weren't maybe doing enough of either. "You can look at it and say he is a defensive kind of coach but we also seem to be creating more chances now with how we are playing as well. It is working well."

This should be pinned up at Brockhall. Our 'brittleness' is cos too many of our squad are ball watchers and can't be bothered tracking back when the other team is in possession! That is one of the few improvements necessary for next season. Those old enough will remember the fantastic work ethic of the entire squad and especially Ripley and Wilcox. The defensive capability of Alan Shearer during open play and especially at set pieces was exemplary too.

Quite right. Most proven managers start at the back. Hardly rocket science is it?

So what was Bowyers thinking pre-season, with two goalkeepers unfit for purpose, little cover at left or right back, no replacement for Dann and others signed in that position not used after purchase? In my book a major error, especially in goal and one happily glossed over by many with blue tinted specs about Bowyer. Novice mistake from a novice manager, totally unacceptable with three months pre-season to get organised.

Do you wish to name your replacements for Rhodes and Hanley? Or should we simply let that drop and stop insisting that anyone questioning Bowyer must have an immediate replacement to offer, irrespective of whether they are available, or would like to come?

[Rover_Shaun]

Our defence has been mistake ridden all season with very very briff glimpses of solidity that probably went in hand with one of the lesser lights racking up at Ewood. A rick was always just around the corner

I wonder what makes people think Bowyer will suddendly get a grip on it next season?

[mattjansen]

So what was Bowyers thinking pre-season, with two goalkeepers unfit for purpose, little cover at left or right back, no replacement for Dann and others signed in that position not used after purchase? In my book a major error, especially in goal and one happily glossed over by many with blue tinted specs about Bowyer. Novice mistake from a novice manager, totally unacceptable with three months pre-season to get organised.

So how was he to know that Kean and Eastwood wasnt up for it? Kean is still young and might have a bright future. Spurr and Olsson left, Kane and Henley right, also young and talented.

[yoda]

So how was he to know that Kean and Eastwood wasnt up for it? Kean is still young and might have a bright future. Spurr and Olsson left, Kane and Henley right, also young and talented.

Is that not part of the job spec' ?

[darrenrover]

Is that not part of the job spec' ?

Agreed, it's glaringly obvious to us mere laymen that Eastwood is not good enough (improved contract?) and that whilst Kean may have natural ability, he needs to 'mature' and apply himself better to his job if he's to be considered first team material.

[mattjansen]

Is that not part of the job spec' ?

You are joking right?!? A young and promising keeper that was really good last spring when Bowyer had two stints as caretaker, does not make Bowyer bad for betting on him to continue to impress.

[yoda]

You are joking right?!? A young and promising keeper that was really good last spring when Bowyer had two stints as caretaker, does not make Bowyer bad for betting on him to continue to impress.

Not sure you understand a management role

[ABBEY]

So how was he to know that Kean and Eastwood wasnt up for it? Kean is still young and might have a bright future. Spurr and Olsson left, Kane and Henley right, also young and talented.

If Eastwood not up to it then why give him a new contract?

[mattjansen]

Not sure you understand a management role

Not like a pro, doesnt make youre opinion right though even if you do

If Eastwood not up to it then why give him a new contract?

He didnt cut it when brought in but could still be an asset in the long run, if not then i have not got the slightest to why he got it. Have not seen him much

[ABBEY]

He's awful

[yoda]

Not like a pro, doesnt make youre opinion right though even if you do

He didnt cut it when brought in but could still be an asset in the long run, if not then i have not got the slightest to why he got it. Have not seen him much

Anyone from the terrace can pick a player and try them out, the difference is a manager should know, that is why they get paid and we don't

[Bucksrover]

He's awful

Eastwood does seem a bit rubbish.

And I make that the second time me and Abbey have agreed on something in about a year.

[Rover_Shaun]

Last few posts have been a hoot.

No wonder the man is heralded a some messiah and that, from everyone on the planet, he alone is the only one who can do the job

[yoda]

Last few posts have been a hoot.

No wonder the man is heralded a some messiah and that, from everyone on the planet, he alone is the only one who can do the job

Maybe Balaji has been driving round Blackburn with his iron bar and knocking on doors

[roversR4ever]

Im not having a go at anyone but we had a very experienced and very well paid goalkeeper coming back, so it understandable why we didn't go get another keeper. Especially when you consider that one of the young backup options had done well the season before. If the intention was to get rid of our number one keeper when he returned then fair enough.

For all his problems/flaws how many keepers in the championship are better than our first choice keeper. The unfortunate issue was that our young keeper lost his form completely even with Bowyer giving him time to regain it.

there is no doubt we finished strongly. Some have seemed to suggest this was when the pressure was off - well things could have gobe slightly differently and us scraped into a play off position.

For me it has nothing to do with pressure off, more the return of certain key players and those players getting fitter and sharper.

If we had had Gestede and Conway at the start of the season along with a fit Robbo and Evans hadn't had the injury on international duty how many of you think we wouldn't have got into the play offs?

Id go as far as to believe that we start next season as one of the teams mostly likely at least to be in a play off position. If Bowyer can find a couple more of the quality of his last few signings then we go into next season much stronger. Massively more than the beginning of this last season.

The positive for me is that it does look like he is happy to play Cairney in the middle when he has a fit Evans. There were times at the end of the season when he could have had Evans and Williamson in the middle with Conway and Cairney wide but he didn't. Gives me hope that we may well see a midfield of Marshall Evans Cairney and Conway which for me in this league is a good midfield. You then have King on the bench if you want to add pace, Lowe if you want to get fresh legs on. Right back is still an issue - cant make my mind up about Hanley Killi partnership - sometimes looks solid then can go to pot - but would a good strong RB might help. We need to get a CB in.

Upfront we aint to bad are we? Gestede has been a revelation - if Rhodes finds form then you have a pretty good chance of goals.

Theres no doubt that that a huge number of players need shifting out this summer.

The biggest issue for me is no longer the manager - its whether our financial situation is going to bring the house of cards down. If we had the players Bowyer wants to use and got rid of the others then the wage bill would not be anything like as horrific. Question is, if we can shift those players out is the financial position of the club still so severe that we wont see the squad stay together.

The uncertainty is the issue for me. As it always has been with our current owners.

[yoda]

Im not having a go at anyone but we had a very experienced and very well paid goalkeeper coming back, so it understandable why we didn't go get another keeper. Especially when you consider that one of the young backup options had done well the season before. If the intention was to get rid of our number one keeper when he returned then fair enough.

For all his problems/flaws how many keepers in the championship are better than our first choice keeper. The unfortunate issue was that our young keeper lost his form completely even with Bowyer giving him time to regain it.

there is no doubt we finished strongly. Some have seemed to suggest this was when the pressure was off - well things could have gobe slightly differently and us scraped into a play off position.

For me it has nothing to do with pressure off, more the return of certain key players and those players getting fitter and sharper.

If we had had Gestede and Conway at the start of the season along with a fit Robbo and Evans hadn't had the injury on international duty how many of you think we wouldn't have got into the play offs?

Id go as far as to believe that we start next season as one of the teams mostly likely at least to be in a play off position. If Bowyer can find a couple more of the quality of his last few signings then we go into next season much stronger. Massively more than the beginning of this last season.

The positive for me is that it does look like he is happy to play Cairney in the middle when he has a fit Evans. There were times at the end of the season when he could have had Evans and Williamson in the middle with Conway and Cairney wide but he didn't. Gives me hope that we may well see a midfield of Marshall Evans Cairney and Conway which for me in this league is a good midfield. You then have King on the bench if you want to add pace, Lowe if you want to get fresh legs on. Right back is still an issue - cant make my mind up about Hanley Killi partnership - sometimes looks solid then can go to pot - but would a good strong RB might help. We need to get a CB in.

Upfront we aint to bad are we? Gestede has been a revelation - if Rhodes finds form then you have a pretty good chance of goals.

Theres no doubt that that a huge number of players need shifting out this summer.

The biggest issue for me is no longer the manager - its whether our financial situation is going to bring the house of cards down. If we had the players Bowyer wants to use and got rid of the others then the wage bill would not be anything like as horrific. Question is, if we can shift those players out is the financial position of the club still so severe that we wont see the squad stay together.

The uncertainty is the issue for me. As it always has been with our current owners.

Good post,

last line though, we now have stability you know

[patrickvalery]

So despite being worried by relegation to the 1st Div at one point last spring you see no need to change the playing staff? How risky would that have been to go through another season with those over paid flakes plodding around just going through the motions every saturday? It's quite obvious that Bowyer drew a line under some players and wrote them off and fortunately the Rao's backed him to replace them.

As such I believe that he has done a good job and but for the spectre of FFP would show a profit on his transfer dealings.

Nail on head Gordon. If Bowyer had trotted out some nonsense about the squad not requiring reinforcements last summer then he'd have been crucified. We were awful last season and we did need incoming players. Each and every time Bowyer has spent money on transfer fees he's been absolutely meticulous and acted as if its his own money. Without exception the lads he has paid money for have been top notch and exceptional value for money. The fact we're in financial peril is because his predecessors didnt exercise the same caution. Yet despite only spending what £3.2m this season? A small amount even for this division, he is accused of being very fortunate to have been afforded the luxury of bringing in his own staff.

[ABBEY]

See I'm simply misunderstood dude.... Bucks

[tomphil]

If Eastwood not up to it then why give him a new contract?

Cheap, very cheap. Can't resist a bargain them Venkys !

[DE.]

Nail on head Gordon. If Bowyer had trotted out some nonsense about the squad not requiring reinforcements last summer then he'd have been crucified. We were awful last season and we did need incoming players. Each and every time Bowyer has spent money on transfer fees he's been absolutely meticulous and acted as if its his own money. Without exception the lads he has paid money for have been top notch and exceptional value for money. The fact we're in financial peril is because his predecessors didnt exercise the same caution. Yet despite only spending what £3.2m this season? A small amount even for this division, he is accused of being very fortunate to have been afforded the luxury of bringing in his own staff.

In terms of net spend he's actually turned a slight profit in terms of transfer dealings and most likely reduced our wage bill by a fair amount when looking directly at the ins and outs. Luxury certainly isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[Rover_Shaun]

Free transfers cost wages and are harder to shift when they are duds. Marrows wage would not have been cheap. Who's going to take that on?

And Songo'o to jockland on loan is one thing. but when they come to possibly spending their owm money on his wages permanently they will baulk and send him back down the west coast mainline