[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[tomphil]

Some managers just fit in at some clubs and not at others, probably for various reasons. It's always been that way and if a manager does well somewhere then moves to another club and it doesn't take off it doesn't mean he's a complete dud. Of course there are perennial losers to avoid but sometimes it's just a case of fresh ideas and a new voice every now and then and sometimes you strike gold, for a short while at least.

[Kamy100]

Hold on a second, you have missed a great chunk of time there from Sherwood 'strengthening his Spurs' position' to accepting the Villa job (approx. 18 months). We had further opportunity to land Sherwood.

As I said, he didn't get the right assurances - that's the bottom line !

It was nowt to do with assurances since leaving Spurs, he turned down quite a number of Championship clubs because he didn't want to drop down to that level, heck he even turned down some Premier League clubs.

But I will agree, if he was going to join a Championship club it wouldn't be the circus that is Blackburn Rovers would never risk ruining his reputation with the clowns running our club.

[Mercer]

It was nowt to do with assurances since leaving Spurs, he turned down quite a number of Championship clubs because he didn't want to drop down to that level, heck he even turned down some Premier League clubs.

But I will agree, if he was going to join a Championship club it wouldn't be the circus that is Blackburn Rovers would never risk ruining his reputation with the clowns running our club.

Sherwood doesn't mess about. He wants control of football affairs and is strong enough to dig in his heels. That's why things didn't work out at Palace, WBA etc

There was no way he would come to Rovers under the modus operandi on offer and that's the answer in a nutshell. If he had been given licence to do it his way, I believe he would have come.

[blueboy3333]

Sherwood doesn't mess about. He wants control of football affairs and is strong enough to dig in his heels. That's why things didn't work out at Palace, WBA etc

There was no way he would come to Rovers under the modus operandi on offer and that's the answer in a nutshell. If he had been given licence to do it his way, I believe he would have come.

and that's where your whole argument about there being lots of better managers willing to succeed Bowyer falls apart. It's ok calling Bowyer a clown and calling for his head but you completely ignore what comes next...except when it suits your argument about Sherwood.

[RevidgeBlue]

Chaddy, change the record.

There are scores of better options than Bowyer out there.

For a start, I would have nailed Sherwood and given him total control of football matters.

Stop it Mercer you're making my sides ache. I don't recall you ever particularly championing Sherwood, now with the benefit of hindsight and given it looks like he might do well you just lob his name into the conversation as if it was a no brainer all along!

Priceless.

I too would obviously have gone for Brentford's Mark Warburton or Watford ' s manager Slavisa Jokanovic (even though I'd never heard of either before the start of this season.)

Lol.

[47er]

Sherwood would never have come here in a million years, his ege wouldn;t have allowed him

Chaddy has asked you a simple question mercer, plenty of people want Bowyer sacked, but NOBODY has yet come up with a viable alternative.

All the managers you've touted on here have failed and failed badly, Bowyer has out managed all of them.

The point is Chaddy has asked this simple question dozens of times. Yet, if we go back to his blue period when he wanted Bowyer out, he actually nominated a few himself!

He's asking Merecerman so he and others can get stuck into him later as they do with "wee Dougie". Its a tiresome process from a very tedious poster.

[K-Hod]

Bowyer going nowhere so it's all irrelevant, but I think I agreed with you in the main.

If Bowyer was sacked I doubt any of those 3 would be asked to come here or willing.

It's more than a bit naughty to ask for alternatives, then dismiss them all and say they wouldn't come? You never know until you ask....

[Mike E]

The point is Chaddy has asked this simple question dozens of times. Yet, if we go back to his blue period when he wanted Bowyer out, he actually nominated a few himself!

He's asking Merecerman so he and others can get stuck into him later as they do with "wee Dougie". Its a tiresome process from a very tedious poster.

Surely that's the point? Chaddy nominates a few (backing up his opinion) but Mercer doesn't.

The former being a relatively naive poster (no offence meant chaddy) and the latter regularly posting rumours not reported anywhere else and 99% of them being absolutely false.

[blueboy3333]

Strange how he's both a nodding dog and rogue at the same time. Only under venkys.

Whole issue of who should replace bowyer is a nonsense. I can't see bowyer leaving unless we're stuck in the bottom three.

difficult to predict next twelve months for this club, but Rhodesand ggesturegoing and rovers adrift of safety come nNovember time would be the nightmare scenario. Venkys panic, bin bowyer and appoint someone worse and we're down by early April

nothing like a bit of positive

thinking, eh?

Indeed. it's a farce.

[Gav]

and that's where your whole argument about there being lots of better managers willing to succeed Bowyer falls apart. It's ok calling Bowyer a clown and calling for his head but you completely ignore what comes next...except when it suits your argument about Sherwood.

Absolutely.

The point is Chaddy has asked this simple question dozens of times. Yet, if we go back to his blue period when he wanted Bowyer out, he actually nominated a few himself!

He's asking Merecerman so he and others can get stuck into him later as they do with "wee Dougie". Its a tiresome process from a very tedious poster.

Mercer can look after himself, he puts himself out there to be shot at with his outlandish claims.

I've been asked hundreds of times why I wouldn't sack Bowyer, by a whole host of people, you included, then rounded upon, so you're no different 47er......

It's more than a bit naughty to ask for alternatives, then dismiss them all and say they wouldn't come? You never know until you ask....

It's my opinion K-Hod that they wouldn't come, no point telling fibs for the sake of it.

I could dissect the candidates and say 2 of them failed miserably last time out and 1 has less experience than Bowyer but it's pointless.

[Jimmy612]

Posted on here quite some time ago that if Bowyer had been removed then one on my list of strong possibilties would have been Grayson. Worked at clubs on a shoe string and has generally done very well - assuming Preston make it, how many promotions will that be in his managerial career... 4? I know all from league 1 but it's still an impressive CV.

Plus a former player and a Northern chap who's familiar with the area, and has worked wonders at both Blackpool and Preston - I think bloody Leeds were about 10th in the Champ when he was sacked - probably the highest they've been in the league for about 7 years

Think Preston made a quality appointment there and I wish we'd have reacted quicker.

Anyway it's lovely to be right (as usual ) but it's all bluster at the top and bottom of it - Bowyer will be here next season and sadly he won't get us promoted despite his best efforts.

[Mercer]

and that's where your whole argument about there being lots of better managers willing to succeed Bowyer falls apart. It's ok calling Bowyer a clown and calling for his head but you completely ignore what comes next...except when it suits your argument about Sherwood.

Wrong again aren't you.

Compare what licence Bowyer now has in football affairs to what he had when Shebby was here (and when first Sherwood approach made). There is a huge difference.

Stop it Mercer you're making my sides ache. I don't recall you ever particularly championing Sherwood, now with the benefit of hindsight and given it looks like he might do well you just lob his name into the conversation as if it was a no brainer all along!

Priceless.

I too would obviously have gone for Brentford's Mark Warburton or Watford ' s manager Slavisa Jokanovic (even though I'd never heard of either before the start of this season.)

Lol.

I would suggest that you are suffering from amnesia.

[thenodrog]

Yes, but you were asking in a no-one will takeit/no one better out there kind of way. Maybe I'm wrong on this, and apologies if I am, but whilst you seem to be negative about Sherwood (not coming) and Freedman (bad at Bolton) you do seem to ignore the arguments for the myriad of positive potential candidates up there.

Thanks for correcting me with Rosler - he did do well with Brentford though. Regardless the point still stands - MCDermott, Adkins, Warburton, Greyson and that's without thorough investigation. To say and think Bowyer is the best out there - even with our rapidly sinking ship - is a myth. It's part of what makes supporting rovers all the more frustrating.

Whats the connection between all those names?...... They've all got a sacking or two on their cv's.

Effectively names can be bandied about all the time on here but judging who is better or worse or who would be good / bad is just pure playground speculation by a number of people with loud voices but with completely uninformed opinions.

[thenodrog]

Hold on a second, you have missed a great chunk of time there from Sherwood 'strengthening his Spurs' position' to accepting the Villa job (approx. 18 months). We had further opportunity to land Sherwood.

As I said, he didn't get the right assurances - that's the bottom line !

You are talking like Tim Sherwood is the latter day Alex Ferguson! You appear to have convinced yourself (again) that he is the next top manager. Way too soon to make valid judgements imo.

I've nothing concrete to go on of course but all I see is a short term motivator with no long term record of management. I have just a sneaky feeling that you might be choking on your words yet again inside 12 months.

[Mercer]

Surely that's the point? Chaddy nominates a few (backing up his opinion) but Mercer doesn't.

The former being a relatively naive poster (no offence meant chaddy) and the latter regularly posting rumours not reported anywhere else and 99% of them being absolutely false.

Sadly, you are showing your naivety.

Football is an industry where events change so quickly and very often by the day. In many instances what's discussed today is forgotten by tomorrow. Scenarios change by the day and is the very reason why 90%+ of what is written in the press never comes to fruition. If you had work associated experience with football clubs then you would understand that; I have worked indirectly with a number of clubs on commercial stuff and they always want top dollar for their overrated brand thinking that they are an exception to normal commercial practice and sponsors / suppliers will happily use them as a 'loss leader' and throw huge wedges of money at them. This might happen occasionally with the 'super' clubs but will not happen at 95% of clubs.

[Andyblue2]

Posted on here quite some time ago that if Bowyer had been removed then one on my list of strong possibilties would have been Grayson. Worked at clubs on a shoe string and has generally done very well - assuming Preston make it, how many promotions will that be in his managerial career... 4? I know all from league 1 but it's still an impressive CV.

Plus a former player and a Northern chap who's familiar with the area, and has worked wonders at both Blackpool and Preston - I think bloody Leeds were about 10th in the Champ when he was sacked - probably the highest they've been in the league for about 7 years

Think Preston made a quality appointment there and I wish we'd have reacted quicker.

And if you look closely you will see that his son will be starting as a scholar at brockhall when the new season starts in september. leaving school soon. Been on the bench for the under 18.

[K-Hod]

The point is Chaddy has asked this simple question dozens of times. Yet, if we go back to his blue period when he wanted Bowyer out, he actually nominated a few himself!

He's asking Merecerman so he and others can get stuck into him later as they do with "wee Dougie". Its a tiresome process from a very tedious poster.

Exactly. Oh wait, were you talking about Chaddy?

[Al]

Sherwood would never have come here in a million years, his ege wouldn;t have allowed him

Chaddy has asked you a simple question mercer, plenty of people want Bowyer sacked, but NOBODY has yet come up with a viable alternative.

All the managers you've touted on here have failed and failed badly, Bowyer has out managed all of them.

I answered Chaddy but that has been ignored.

[thenodrog]

Sherwood doesn't mess about. He wants control of football affairs and is strong enough to dig in his heels. That's why things didn't work out at Palace, WBA etc

There was no way he would come to Rovers under the modus operandi on offer and that's the answer in a nutshell. If he had been given licence to do it his way, I believe he would have come.

Didn't you ever get burned as a kid and promise yourself never to stick your hand in a flame again?

If you had been venkys with their recent experiences would you have been willing to have handed over the chequebook and give total control over signings to yet another football coach and wannabee manager as recommended by another 'trusted' advisor (and especially with FFP imminent)? Well would you?

[ABBEY]

Whats the connection between all those names?...... They've all got a sacking or two on their cv's.

Effectively names can be bandied about all the time on here but judging who is better or worse or who would be good / bad is just pure playground speculation by a number of people with loud voices but with completely uninformed opinions.

Most managers get sacked at some point.

[Mercer]

Didn't you ever get burned as a kid and promise yourself never to stick your hand in a flame again?

If you had been venkys with their recent experiences would you have been willing to have handed over the chequebook and give total control over signings to yet another football coach and wannabee manager as recommended by another 'trusted' advisor (and especially with FFP imminent)? Well would you?

If you own / run a business, you ensure that you have the right Exec Management structure in place and you let them manage.

If you don't understand the business or are frightened by the business then you get out of it.

There can be no half way house unless you are Venky's. Therein lies Rovers' problem.

[thenodrog]

Most managers get sacked at some point.

Indeed (except ours to date) and all without exception appointed in a lather of optimism by people whose opinions were ultimately proven flawed.

Everyone on here is convinced they'd make the right choice yet any number of names are being thrown into the hat. Can you believe Abbey that some even suggest Holloway and Tugay!! Personally I blame Championship Manager and Fantasy Football where no one plays for real and most definitely not with their own money.

[Al]

not a unfair question IMO. how long do we wait and advertise the manager position for?

we need organised pre-season and get staff in that the new manager would want in. plus making signings and deciding who leaves from the current playing staff plus we have an embargo in place.

.

Of course it's an unfair question. It's what they all trot out when they want to defend the current manager. We are not professionals in the know and don't know who is available. It's up to the chairman to ask the right questions in the right places. If he is not capable then we need a new chairman too. Incidentally you were wrong about goalkeepers and in my opinion continue to be so.

[thenodrog]

If you own / run a business, you ensure that you have the right Exec Management structure in place and you let them manage.

If you don't understand the business or are frightened by the business then you get out of it.

There can be no half way house unless you are Venky's. Therein lies Rovers' problem.

Sounds like a job application to me!

[Al]

How do we let anybody ''go'' who is under contract?? Most unlikely anybody would want the ones we are trying to 'let go'' and so they are hardly going to walk away from their contracts here are they?? So the only way they ''go'' is by being paid up in full and freed which doesn't do a lot for FFP as far as I can say and merely further escalates the losses.

That's why next season with pretty much the same squad MINUS our two 40 goal strikers worries me sick TBH , especially if its the same guy in charge

Which emphasises the stupidity of signing Steele.