[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[1864roverite]

There is not a chance that Grayson is coming to Ewood.

The other clubs have shown that with some shrewd thinking positive things can happen.

Look at the following examples.

Brentford - no mark team, full of dollopers BUT who have been moulded into a hardworking outfit - down to man management and getting the best out of players. Look at how they have performed for their manager.

Watford - been through the ringer but look at what the players have achieved through man management and through playing to their strengths.

Bournemouth - no better example of man management and getting the best out of what you have got.

Norwich - like Watford play to their strengths and they have a great man manager.

Middlesbro - Karanka has got the best out his midfielders and has successfully used the loan market. His team play for each other and don't drop their heads.

Ipswich - Again simple man management sees McCarthy with a team of players who work their socks off until the end.

Wolves - simplistic football using what they have, using youth and loanees BUT investing in quality.

Derby - mixture of experience, youth and well drilled footballers managed by a quality coach. Yes they have faltered but look at the football they play.

Now compare these teams with Rovers.

Do Rovers have worse players? Simple answer is NO we don't. We have some real quality across the park and in all positions.

Does GB play his best 11? No he doesn't. Clearly, early doors we had much tinkering of the team that ruined any momentum. An unsettled defence and midfield has cost us many games.

Does GB motivate his side? Clearly on the evidence of some matches (Rotherham/Sheff Wed/Blackpool/Bolton/Millwall for example), then NO he doesn't.

Do we play to our strength's? Occasionally we do BUT we are so inconsistent and that is because of the two aforementioned points.

Rovers have had the chances, we have had the games in our own hands YET we have squandered the biggest promotion chance that has been put on a plate for us.

We have not been battered by anyone with exception of Derby.

We should have taken more points from the other teams above us BUT we didn't because of poor team selection and that has to be levelled at the feet of GB.

We should easily have beaten the mid table teams were we either lost or drew games BUT in the majority of those games GB seemed unable to grasp the chance by either playing non tactical teams, wrong formations, no substitutions and no real plan on how or what to do.

My point is this. If we had a proper football manager who could man manage, motivate and use the players to the best of their ability, then it is probable that we would have seen our team back in the top league. There have been too many occasions where it has gone horribly wrong for us and the players haven't had a clue what to do next.

GB has stabilised the club, he has brought a sense of positivity on the pitch and he has allowed the development of some of the youth at the club. He has had a good run in the FA Cup but in the league he has failed big time.

I would love him to remain at the club back at what he does best, bringing on the youth and supporting the first team manager. He deserves our total thanks but even GB must now realise his job is done and its time to move aside.

As for identifying the manager? Is Coleman an attractive option from Brentford? Is Jimmy Flloyd Hasslebaink an option in looking what he has achieved at Burton? Should we be considering the likes of Billy Davies, Owen Coyle, Stuart Pearce, Phil Parkinson, Simon Grayson. Is there scope for someone like David Moyes (failing in Spain)? Do we look at Malky McKay, Uwe Rosler, Paul Lambert, Nigel Adkins and Billy McKinley or do we look at potential foreigners?

One things for sure, there are managers out there who would jump at the chance of coming to Ewood especially with some of the players we have wrapped up on contracts.

[Exiled in Toronto]

There is not a chance that Grayson is coming to Ewood.

The other clubs have shown that with some shrewd thinking positive things can happen.

Look at the following examples.

Brentford - no mark team, full of dollopers BUT who have been moulded into a hardworking outfit - down to man management and getting the best out of players. Look at how they have performed for their manager.

Watford - been through the ringer but look at what the players have achieved through man management and through playing to their strengths.

Bournemouth - no better example of man management and getting the best out of what you have got.

Norwich - like Watford play to their strengths and they have a great man manager.

Middlesbro - Karanka has got the best out his midfielders and has successfully used the loan market. His team play for each other and don't drop their heads.

Ipswich - Again simple man management sees McCarthy with a team of players who work their socks off until the end.

Wolves - simplistic football using what they have, using youth and loanees BUT investing in quality.

Derby - mixture of experience, youth and well drilled footballers managed by a quality coach. Yes they have faltered but look at the football they play.

Now compare these teams with Rovers.

Do Rovers have worse players? Simple answer is NO we don't. We have some real quality across the park and in all positions.

Does GB play his best 11? No he doesn't. Clearly, early doors we had much tinkering of the team that ruined any momentum. An unsettled defence and midfield has cost us many games.

Does GB motivate his side? Clearly on the evidence of some matches (Rotherham/Sheff Wed/Blackpool/Bolton/Millwall for example), then NO he doesn't.

Do we play to our strength's? Occasionally we do BUT we are so inconsistent and that is because of the two aforementioned points.

Rovers have had the chances, we have had the games in our own hands YET we have squandered the biggest promotion chance that has been put on a plate for us.

We have not been battered by anyone with exception of Derby.

We should have taken more points from the other teams above us BUT we didn't because of poor team selection and that has to be levelled at the feet of GB.

We should easily have beaten the mid table teams were we either lost or drew games BUT in the majority of those games GB seemed unable to grasp the chance by either playing non tactical teams, wrong formations, no substitutions and no real plan on how or what to do.

My point is this. If we had a proper football manager who could man manage, motivate and use the players to the best of their ability, then it is probable that we would have seen our team back in the top league. There have been too many occasions where it has gone horribly wrong for us and the players haven't had a clue what to do next.

GB has stabilised the club, he has brought a sense of positivity on the pitch and he has allowed the development of some of the youth at the club. He has had a good run in the FA Cup but in the league he has failed big time.

I would love him to remain at the club back at what he does best, bringing on the youth and supporting the first team manager. He deserves our total thanks but even GB must now realise his job is done and its time to move aside.

As for identifying the manager? Is Coleman an attractive option from Brentford? Is Jimmy Flloyd Hasslebaink an option in looking what he has achieved at Burton? Should we be considering the likes of Billy Davies, Owen Coyle, Stuart Pearce, Phil Parkinson, Simon Grayson. Is there scope for someone like David Moyes (failing in Spain)? Do we look at Malky McKay, Uwe Rosler, Paul Lambert, Nigel Adkins and Billy McKinley or do we look at potential foreigners?

One things for sure, there are managers out there who would jump at the chance of coming to Ewood especially with some of the players we have wrapped up on contracts.

I enjoy your posts but I don't believe for a second you have sufficient in-depth knowledge of all these 25-man squads to make such a categorical claim. All this we have great players who only play rubbish for 80 games in a row because the manager casts an evil spell on them or whatever is nonsense.

The Bowyer argument should rest on his proven ability, or not, to pick a balanced team, set it up properly tactically to win and play well, and his ability, or not, to change the course of a game for the better. He is lacking in all these in my view irrespective of the ability of the players under him.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Some good posts in this thread. I'm in the 'frightened of our growing debt, get promoted asap', category.

Fans would be seriously fed up losing £20.00 on the terraces. Checking every pocket 5 times. £200.00 gone and they'd be reporting it to the police. £2000.00 lost on a car, or gambling needs sucking up. Anyone lost £20,000.00 recently? I have actually managed that. £200,000.00? Sorry if you have. £2,000,000.00? :) Jeepers!! We will never even earn that much.

This lot lose that EVERY month. £2,000,000.00 every month.

When I ask his more vociferous supporters if it was their money was being peed up against the wall, whether they would still plug away with our Gaz, they simply ignore my question. Far easier to play the faux knowledgeable, super sensible, loyal, you must be able to see what he's trying to do card. Ooh but hasn't he had it tough. It takes time to build a squad. He's Rovers through and through.

I'm not buying it. Go and get a proven operator to strike fear into the bone idle, fat headed, chavved up soft arses fleecing us in blue and white. 13 off the play offs and 20+ off automatic. Not even close. Want to waste another 20 zillion whilst our Gaz trades up for a mansion? Or still searching your pockets for that £20.00?

[Al]

Same number of times you reference his name in your posts Al

Or maybe the number of times you stick your nose in when he doesn't need it?

[Gav]

Or maybe the number of times you stick your nose in when he doesn't need it?

Just leave Chaddy alone Al and we'll all live happily ever after, simple really.

[DE.]

The Bowyer argument should rest on his proven ability, or not, to pick a balanced team, set it up properly tactically to win and play well, and his ability, or not, to change the course of a game for the better. He is lacking in all these in my view irrespective of the ability of the players under him.

This is essentially the bottom line. You only have to look at the likes of Watford, Middlesbrough and Norwich to see how a team can be transformed by a new manager with a fresh approach. I doubt anybody here would have been touting Karanka, Neil or Jokanovic before they were appointed.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but I've not seen any posts that outline reasons to be optimistic under Bowyer. If we had the exact same team next season then yes, perhaps we would finish mid-table again, but we won't. We'll be significantly weaker and I'm not sure there are any legitimate grounds to justify faith that Bowyer can halt a potentially sharp decline.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Some good posts in this thread. I'm in the 'frightened of our growing debt, get promoted asap', category.

Fans would be seriously fed up losing £20.00 on the terraces. Checking every pocket 5 times. £200.00 gone and they'd be reporting it to the police. £2000.00 lost on a car, or gambling needs sucking up. Anyone lost £20,000.00 recently? I have actually managed that. £200,000.00? Sorry if you have. £2,000,000.00? :) Jeepers!! We will never even earn that much.

This lot lose that EVERY month. £2,000,000.00 every month.

When I ask his more vociferous supporters if it was their money was being peed up against the wall, whether they would still plug away with our Gaz, they simply ignore my question. Far easier to play the faux knowledgeable, super sensible, loyal, you must be able to see what he's trying to do card. Ooh but hasn't he had it tough. It takes time to build a squad. He's Rovers through and through.

I'm not buying it. Go and get a proven operator to strike fear into the bone idle, fat headed, chavved up soft arses fleecing us in blue and white. 13 off the play offs and 20+ off automatic. Not even close. Want to waste another 20 zillion whilst our Gaz trades up for a mansion? Or still searching your pockets for that £20.00?

It's all relative though, we can never think like they do because we are not obscenely rich. For all we know they may be making 20 million a month from everything else they do. And let's not forget their dad passed on the business to them twenty years ago so they have been accumulating vast wealth for a very long time. And, as we know, money makes money. 2 million a month may be killing them or it may be a rounding error in an ever increasing pot they could never spend anyway. So far it has seemed like the latter.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Bournemouth have seven regulars that have played football league. Blackpool and Burnley have both been promoted recently with cobbled together squads. Brentford, Ipswich and Wolves have all surprised this season.

There's no magic wand. Success comes before work, only in the dictionary. But you can gain slight advantage in many ways, maximise your chances and play the percentages, but only with a shrewd operator that all believe in. Allardyce would get this lot playing with a lasting purpose. I know he's now out of our league but the point being we can do much better.

Enthuse and focus the players, ignite, unite and reclaim those fans that will come back soonest. Build some momentum. It will help sales and marketing staff, shop staff, administration and higher management alike. We need a bit of feel good factor and excitement. It's so frustrating paying top dollar in player salaries and constantly skimping with younger coaches / managers still with everything to prove.

I feel GB will end up as a number two. Calm, experienced, supportive and loyal. Steady away.

What about someone who glares at reporters and let's everyone know immediately that The Rovers aren't a sodding soft touch anymore? Get that nasty piece of work Warnock in. Sack him if he gets us up if need be.

[Athlete]

Not speaking for Chaddy here but anyone looking at Wigans plight this season could be forgiven for changing their minds on the managerial situation. A well run club that's changed managers twice and is looking like is heading down.

Both managers strongly touted on here in the past as successors to Bowyer might I add.

Unfortunately Gav they aren't a well run club behind the scenes got some major problems.. DW still owns but no longer chairman

[LDRover]

I must admit I've been watching Souness as a pundit over the last couple of games and still saw that steely look in the eye and intense passion even when just talking about the game. What I'd give for a manager with that outlook now.

[Athlete]

Bournemouth have seven regulars that have played football league. Blackpool and Burnley have both been promoted recently with cobbled together squads. Brentford, Ipswich and Wolves have all surprised this season.

There's no magic wand. Success comes before work, only in the dictionary. But you can gain slight advantage in many ways, maximise your chances and play the percentages, but only with a shrewd operator that all believe in. Allardyce would get this lot playing with a lasting purpose. I know he's now out of our league but the point being we can do much better.

Enthuse and focus the players, ignite, unite and reclaim those fans that will come back soonest. Build some momentum. It will help sales and marketing staff, shop staff, administration and higher management alike. We need a bit of feel good factor and excitement. It's so frustrating paying top dollar in player salaries and constantly skimping with younger coaches / managers still with everything to prove.

I feel GB will end up as a number two. Calm, experienced, supportive and loyal. Steady away.

What about someone who glares at reporters and let's everyone know immediately that The Rovers aren't a sodding soft touch anymore? Get that nasty piece of work Warnock in. Sack him if he gets us up if need be.

Warnock is promotion CV is second to none he'd get us promoted

[JHRover]

Warnock is yesterdays man. He's 67 and semi-retired in Cornwall. In his last few jobs he became very unpopular at Leeds after signing dross on big money and left Crystal Palace in the relegation zone.

I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club. Him and Venkys wouldn't work, he'd last 12-18 months maximum and probably upset a lot of people in the process.

[Swanson]

Call Schuster and ask if he still wants the job. He seem pretty interested a couple of years ago.

[Athlete]

Warnock is yesterdays man. He's 67 and semi-retired in Cornwall. In his last few jobs he became very unpopular at Leeds after signing dross on big money and left Crystal Palace in the relegation zone.

I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club. Him and Venkys wouldn't work, he'd last 12-18 months maximum and probably upset a lot of people in the process.

Venkyscum have upset a lot of people

[onlyonejackwalker]

It's all relative though, we can never think like they do because we are not obscenely rich. For all we know they may be making 20 million a month from everything else they do. And let's not forget their dad passed on the business to them twenty years ago so they have been accumulating vast wealth for a very long time. And, as we know, money makes money. 2 million a month may be killing them or it may be a rounding error in an ever increasing pot they could never spend anyway. So far it has seemed like the latter.

You may well be right. The waste is and has been extravagant. If Elton can do 20k a month on flowers anythings possible. Maybe my thinkings flawed. But I've still no idea what they're getting out of it.

[thenodrog]

We don't need reasons just a published plan of how we are going to get out of the utter utter shambolic mess

And if you were in charge would you give one? I wouldn't and tbh only a complete fool would.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Warnock is yesterdays man. He's 67 and semi-retired in Cornwall. In his last few jobs he became very unpopular at Leeds after signing dross on big money and left Crystal Palace in the relegation zone.

I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club. Him and Venkys wouldn't work, he'd last 12-18 months maximum and probably upset a lot of people in the process.

I've no idea who's available, or interested. Just that Bowyer isn't the only person who can manage a football team. It's been a long, dull season. Hard to market the current product.

[thenodrog]

How many times do different people have to answer Chaddy's standard defence of Bowyer "Who would you appoint".

It is quite a pertinent question Al.

[ABBEY]

Venkyscum have upset a lot of people

#venkyscumout

[broadsword]

You may well be right. The waste is and has been extravagant. If Elton can do 20k a month on flowers anythings possible. Maybe my thinkings flawed. But I've still no idea what they're getting out of it.

I don't think they did any research before buying the club. These idiots are experts at trusting the wrong people.

So, not only did they not know why they were buying the club, I reckon they also have no idea how to sell the club or even how to give us a half-decent shot at promotion.

One thing I do know that they know how to do, however, is how to fold a company.

[mustard]

It is quite a pertinent question Al.

Is it really so pertinent? What sort of answer do you expect people to give?

Personally, if I was in the position of selecting a manager, I'd hire the person who impressed me most in the interviewing stages, whilst balancing character, track record, their intent/goals and a whole host of other factors.

One thing's for certain, I don't think Gary Bowyer would be a standout candidate.

[Mercer]

And if you were in charge would you give one? I wouldn't and tbh only a complete fool would.

All sorts of organisations (commercial, public service, schools etc) issue 'recovery' / 'improvement' plans to stakeholders including employees and 'customers' / 'clients'.

You need to have a vision and a plan to deliver it otherwise you are rudderless (as Rovers now seem to be).

I would hazard a guess that 95% of Rovers' employees haven't a clue what the strategy is.

[davulsukur]

To my knowledge no other clubs issue a plan out to the fans. Why would they? so they can be pulled up on it further down the line.

Any plan would have to be an overview anyway, which would just lead to more questions, assumptions & rumours.

We all know that football doesn't work "like any other business"

Venkys probably wouldn't have a plan to issue anyway.

[ABBEY]

There plan is to pluck fans right off

[Baz]

What Is puzzling is their intentions.

Why accept losing money over fist week after week, without any sense of setting targets, and seemingly without any thoughts of actually investing in proven quality?

Why give 3 of your managers a matter of weeks to perform, then 2 others seemingly an open ongoing remit? Why continue down a route of employing non-proven managers, given the lack of success?

Why state your aim is PL football, then accept mediocrity?

At 99.9% of football clubs these questions need no answers, unfortunately we do.