[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[thenodrog]

Bottom line for me is that if Shaw or wheoever else is in charge at the club hasn't already been making consideration for a Bowyer replacement then they are simply not doing their job. Bowyer could simply leave for personal reasons on any given day - he may be presented with a medical problem that means he is advised not continue in a high-pressured job.

Have you considered that he might also be offered a better position elsewhere?

tbh If I were Bowyers agent I'd desperately be looking for another club for him. His record at the helm here will be perceived in proper football circles as decent enough for sure but with the better players leaving and the entire club heading for the buffers at the end of the line I'm pretty sure his best career option is to get the hell out whilst his reputation is still decent and undamaged.

[Rover_Shaun]

LOL

[thenodrog]

I base my view on results and what I see.

What gets measured gets done !!!

By any tangible measure, they've failed badly.

Don't talk crap. Two top half finishes might not be to your expectations but it's better than two bottom half finishes and even that isn't failing badly. For a definition of 'failing badly' you need to speak to supporters at Blackpool, Millwall and Wigan .

[onlyonejackwalker]

Yes it is. This is a message board where people come to give their opinions. Why not give us yours rather than an airy fairy 'many professionals'.

Speculating as to which player we are going to sign, which team we are going to pick, or who the next manager may be might be exercises you enjoy but I find it pointless and rather boring.

You seem unable to grasp the fact that I am not in charge of the recruitment process and therefore not armed with the information necessary to make an informed decision. The sooner you grasp that point the sooner you will understand that there is no point ANYONE randomly posting someones name on here as though it actually means something relevant. Im not sure how to explain it so you understand, having done so three of four times already.

My opinion is that we can recruit better than Bowyer.

Ive asked you before but you seem unwilling, or unable to answer.

If it was your money would you have recruited Bowyer? If you had just lost another 20 million pound this year would you still be waxing lyrical about Bowyer and retaining his services? To potentially lose another 20 million?

These arent trick questions and will help you form a view. Once answered, you can get off your fence and start informing people knowledgeably why you think we should keep Bowyer, or remove him.

[Rover_Shaun]

You are right Drog it all boils down to expectations. The club's private targets may be bereft of all ambition and therefore this years Annus Regressus may be fine and dandy to them.

As you say the debt elephant is in the room and will only grow bigger as Bowyer takes us further from the target that could eradicate it.

As some stats I posted show we only need a 12% increase in club performance to get the play offs. Play offs guarantee nothing I know but at least qualification breeds hope. Another manager may have it in him. Our current one doesn't seem to

[thenodrog]

The defence (or to be more precise the number of goals we concede, which involves the midfield as well) has been our Achilles heel for 2 seasons or more. With even a average defensive record we would probably have made the playoffs this year and certainly would have last season.

Bowyer can get us promoted if he can convince Gestede and Rhodes to stay (or find suitable replacements) and, more important, recognise his coaching staff's deficiencies and hire an top coach to help him set up the team properly to defend leads and see out matches from the many winning positions we have thrown away over the past year or so.

Correct. I've been banging on for long enough now that Bowyer for his own good needs to be ruthless and replace some of his backroom team. Mark Hughes did brilliantly here but we've been led to believe that much of Hughes success was down to Bowen and Niedzwiecki.

[Rover_Shaun]

So Bowyer is just a victim of the lack of quality around him? Who's judgement were those recruitments based on? Who carries the can and get's paid handsomely to have his head on the chopping block?

Sheesh. If it couldn't get any worse................

[thenodrog]

Jim. You sound like you are absolving Bowyer of all responsibility for our continued defensive frailties throughout his entire tenure, and are putting the blame solely on his staff?

They are all a part of the whole. GB bears ultimate responsibility because he's the figurehead but lets not absolve the coaching staff and more pertinently the bloody players!

[McClarky]

another happy clapping newbie.

I can't imagine that a club who have spent the amount of money we have and is losing the amount of money that we are would not see it as an absolute must to be promoted back into the PL. Then again we are being run by morons of the highest order so you never know.

GB has failed completely this season but we are a club who are set up to fail right across the whole set up so much as I would love to see a new manager I don't see the point while these shower are in charge with no proper structure or organisation.

We're doomed I tell thi, with or without GB.

[DE.]

Might as well get somebody in to do the tactics and team selection for Gary too. Then he'd be set.

[jim mk2]

Jim. You sound like you are absolving Bowyer of all responsibility for our continued defensive frailties throughout his entire tenure, and are putting the blame solely on his staff?

Not all, no. But I think he should recognise his own strengths and weaknesses and get help where he needs it most.

Might as well get somebody in to do the tactics and team selection for Gary too. Then he'd be set.

Do you ManU's success (or that of any club) is down to one man?

[DE.]

Do you ManU's success (or that of any club) is down to one man?

Fair to say they haven't been the same since Ferguson left.

[thenodrog]

Ive asked you before but you seem unwilling, or unable to answer.

If it was your money would you have recruited Bowyer? If you had just lost another 20 million pound this year would you still be waxing lyrical about Bowyer and retaining his services? To potentially lose another 20 million?

Maybe I'd be seeking Dave Whelans advice. Alternatively I might seek the advice of Watford's owners. I just say what I think and unfortunately I don't have the benefit of your crystal ball.

But.... Would you have predicted Watford's promotion and Wigan's relegation 9 months ago? If you did then I take my hat off to you. If you didn't then yiour opinion is of little value now.

btw... One thing that you might give me credit for is being bang on about Ince, Allardyce and the Venkymob before any of them even walked through the doors and also being completely proven right about the switch from Allardyce to some 3rd team bib carrier. ..... err even though thank God, none of it was my money.

I can't imagine that a club who have spent the amount of money we have and is losing the amount of money that we are would not see it as an absolute must to be promoted back into the PL. Then again we are being run by morons of the highest order so you never know.

GB has failed completely this season but we are a club who are set up to fail right across the whole set up so much as I would love to see a new manager I don't see the point while these shower are in charge with no proper structure or organisation.

We're doomed I tell thi, with or without GB.

Many a true word spoken in jest.

[chris_h]

another happy clapping newbie.

Another top post.

[Amo]

btw... One thing that you might give me credit for is being bang on about Ince, Allardyce and the Venkymob before any of them even walked through the doors and also being completely proven right about the switch from Allardyce to some 3rd team bib carrier. ..... err even though thank God, none of it was my money.

Yeah but you didn't get it half wrong about Sparky.

Also, what's with the constant need for validation?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Maybe I'd be seeking Dave Whelans advice. Alternatively I might seek the advice of Watford's owners. I just say what I think and unfortunately I don't have the benefit of your crystal ball.

But.... Would you have predicted Watford's promotion and Wigan's relegation 9 months ago? If you did then I take my hat off to you. If you didn't then yiour opinion is of little value now.

btw... One thing that you might give me credit for is being bang on about Ince, Allardyce and the Venkymob before any of them even walked through the doors and also being completely proven right about the switch from Allardyce to some 3rd team bib carrier. ..... err even though thank God, none of it was my money.

Many a true word spoken in jest.

Still cannot answer the question? I understand it pushes you into a corner. No problem, better to keep your options open.

No, I didn't predict what would happen to either Watford or Wigan. Or Walsall or Rotherham or PNE or Rushden and Diamonds reserves. Did you? Thought not. Relevance therefore? Not a lot as usual.

Bang on about Ince? I kknew he was useless after 6 games, not 17. You knew the sacking of Allardyce was a mistake? Join the club. Hardly rocket science whatever most of our fans wanted and believed at the time. The Raos? Failing to believe their champions league dream does not put you in the top 5% nationwide intellectually. That was all very standard stuff. More fool the rest of our fans believing in the hogwash and utter baloney.

Bowyer is a steady away option for the club. If like some you do not worry about club finances and wish him to have the time available to mould and build his own squad, in his own image, in the hope of a five year promotion plan then bully for you. I don't beleive in that plan.

If you worry about the increasing club debt, then the only way to alleviate that worry would be to increase revenue dramatically via promotion to the PL. Is Bowyer the very best man to try and achieve this aim? Not in my view or that of many others, hence the wish for change.

[Rover_Shaun]

We all know the real crux of the problem is Venkys but like most things in life if there is something you can't affect at all you move onto the next easiest target and something you can affect, if only a little. It doesn't make it right but it's just human nature.

If the club was in stable hands with a stable balance sheet then Bowyer would be the man.

[thenodrog]

Bang on about Ince? I kknew he was useless after 6 games, not 17. You knew the sacking of Allardyce was a mistake? Join the club. Hardly rocket science whatever most of our fans wanted and believed at the time. The Raos? Failing to believe their champions league dream does not put you in the top 5% nationwide intellectually. That was all very standard stuff. More fool the rest of our fans believing in the hogwash and utter baloney.

Bowyer is a steady away option for the club. If like some you do not worry about club finances and wish him to have the time available to mould and build his own squad, in his own image, in the hope of a five year promotion plan then bully for you. I don't beleive in that plan.

If you worry about the increasing club debt, then the only way to alleviate that worry would be to increase revenue dramatically via promotion to the PL. Is Bowyer the very best man to try and achieve this aim? Not in my view or that of many others, hence the wish for change.

I said before they walked through the door. By what you say you would have employed Ince on a suck it and see basis whereas I most certainly would never have gone near the fool. That my friend would be worth at least a million. After the amazing job that he did at Bolton I actually wanted Allardyce right after Hughes left and before Ince and even before the Facebook numpties from behind the goals stuck their ignorant noses in.

[ABBEY]

Another top post.

you just cant resist stirring can you...told you that you didn't have it in you to ignore me ..proven right again.

[Rover_Shaun]

If anyone still believes that JW's decision to employ Ince had anything to do with Farcebook they need to go outside and flagellate themselves with a mackrel until they see sense.

He tried to be left field and it went wrong. That is the crux of it

[LDRover]

I honestly think that when there was a link there that JW was influenced by the potential of the race card being used had he not employed him.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I said before they walked through the door. By what you say you would have employed Ince on a suck it and see basis whereas I most certainly would never have gone near the fool. That my friend would be worth at least a million. After the amazing job that he did at Bolton I actually wanted Allardyce right after Hughes left and before Ince and even before the Facebook numpties from behind the goals stuck their ignorant noses in.

Its blatantly obvious you wouldn't touch Bowyer with a barge pole if it was your cash being wasted. Otherwise you would say so. In fact no-one has said they would employ Bowyer if it was their own cash involved, not even Parson.

You support Bowyer, but knew Ince would be useless? Well he wouldnt have been my choice back then and I also would have gone for Allardyce. However as a

former player for United, Liverpool and Inter Milan (I think), former International and national team Captain, then at least his CV suggested he has experience of the game at a high level. I can understand if interviewing with charisma, confidence, belief and personality why he may have been given the gig with his track record as a player and relative success at MK Dons.

What do you deduce when you look at Bowyers CV that influences you to defend on him here?

[Amo]

If anyone still believes that JW's decision to employ Ince had anything to do with Farcebook they need to go outside and flagellate themselves with a mackrel until they see sense.

He tried to be left field and it went wrong. That is the crux of it

Shearer had been touted for the job early on. They obviously wanted to go down the young manager route again and unearth another Sparky. I think the fact JW preferred Shearer & Ince to Michael Laudrup is even scarier than him listening to Facebook.

[chris_h]

you just cant resist stirring can you...told you that you didn't have it in you to ignore me ..proven right again.

The post was quoted you numpty.

[ABBEY]

You quoted me but hey ho .. Numpty ? Oh well I shan't resort to your childish name calling and insults . I shall just ignore you .