[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Athlete]

Do you think we are worse off now than when Bowyer took over? Really?

The debt isn't Bowyer's fault. That is the legacy of his predecessors and the owners.

I understand some people aren't happy with the style of play, but the reality is that despite such a supposedly flawed manager, squad with holes in it and no style of play we have managed to spend virtually the whole of the last 2 seasons in the top half of the Championship.

That consistency in itself in the most topsy-turvy of divisions suggests that the problems aren't as wide-scale.

Ok so we haven't got the promotion we had hoped for. We can sit at the table next to Forest, Cardiff, Fulham, Brighton, Wigan and Norwich/Boro/Derby and wonder what went wrong there because we've all failed to deliver.

Again people comparing us to other championship clubs with the facilities two strikers 20 plus players brought in etc etc GB has failed fact no getting away it's fact he's failed

[Mercer]

Coaching staff and players all appointed / chosen by Bowyer.

No one other than Bowyer is to blame.

He's paid a fortune for results and success.

If as an owner, you've lost well over £100million+ and the only way out is promotion to the PL, then Bowyer has failed spectacularly.

[Gav]

Simply because none of us know who might be available and the professionals should.

Life would be extremely boring as a football fan if we followed your rule Al. Speculating about the new managed is part of the fun surely.

[JBiz]

How has Lennon done then? Or Uwe? In your opinion? Both proven managers and less than 12 months since touted on here as potential manager.

I often read GB being criticised for over the top superlatives but "spectacular" may have taken then goal of the season award. We've slightly regressed. The realistic aim (held by many regardless of A BUSINESSES MARKETING STRATEGY) would have said playoffs. We've not achieved this so it's a failure nevertheless.

I don't think anybody in their right mind could say that this season has been resounding success. Problems with centre midfield have been discussed- the signings for the centre; Spearing and Tunnicliffe to compliment Evans, Lowe, cairney, Williamson. All had indifferent seasons which could be one of the reasons we've faltered.

I don't think it's helped having little money to spend, and relying on loans. Tunnicliffe looked to be progressing nicely but fortune meant he returned rather signed on a cheap permanent after loan like TC, Rudy, Steele etc. Could also argue the Duffy money could have gone that way or that could have been his more initial priority. I'd suggest that when he signed Evans and Cairney, he likely felt they'd be good enough. Neither has been good enough consistently this season.

Injuries have plagued us. I've seen lots of posts saying Dunny was unlucky in his career with injuries - we can't dismiss the fitness problems we've had all down to fortune, but it's unfair to say its completely down to the current staffs training. Mark Howard- check out what happened after he went.

Many accept that the whole structure of the club has been dumbed down constantly. That trend is likely to continue and whilst GB may only deliver stability on a budget in this league- my primary concern is WTF are the owners thinking, who are they speaking to, and how long will they continue to put their fingers in their ears.

The dream for me is promotion and a return to what we had before the scum sold us out. The problem that many ignore is the same scum still pay the bills. A counter argument of "pay the bills" being more of a "saddle with debt" could have some truth however that would be the case with any manager in charge.

Will GB find the right player on a free, get more out of our current crop or develop the correct strategy for getting us up?

I'd say he's nearer to that than taking us the opposite way. On a seperate point, speaking hypothetically; if we are rooted to the bottom after 5 games next season, what is the chances that the current board structure will find the right man?

[roverandout]

Abbey ignore Chris, he's a prick

[LDRover]

It could be argued (as it has with Bowyer) that Lennon saved Bolton from certain relegation to League 1 with no owner's investment and that would be valid. I'd suggest that next season is the acid test for him when he re-shapes their playing squad.

As for Uwe, God only knows what's happened at Wigan this season, I'm gobsmacked they've gone down to be honest.

[JBiz]

Edit wrong thread

[Salgado Is Still A Hero]

Bolton's squad is still pretty poor, I don't think their fans were expecting much more than what Lennon achieved.

Good news about Raya, hopefully see him involved a lot next season.

[broadsword]

Barring the odd judicious signing, eg gestede, what is it that bowyer does well?

motivate the players, set the team up, in-game tactical adjustments, appointing backroom staff, psychological approach, what is it exactly that he's good at?

[thenodrog]

If anyone still believes that JW's decision to employ Ince had anything to do with Farcebook they need to go outside and flagellate themselves with a mackrel until they see sense.

He tried to be left field and it went wrong. That is the crux of it

And if they don't they need to wise up pdq!

btw flerk only knows what your last line means.

You support Bowyer, but knew Ince would be useless? Well he wouldnt have been my choice back then and I also would have gone for Allardyce. However as a former player for United, Liverpool and Inter Milan (I think), former International and national team Captain, then at least his CV suggested he has experience of the game at a high level. I can understand if interviewing with charisma, confidence, belief and personality why he may have been given the gig with his track record as a player and relative success at MK Dons.

Grief! How funny is that post?

Those words can and could never ever belong in the same sentence as the name Paul Ince. Are you on strong medication? Do you not recall that disastrous Press conference with JW?

[chaddyrovers]

Any names?

Simon Grayson, Gary Flitcroft, Dean Smith, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Karl Robinson, Nigel Adkins, Gareth Ainsworth, Graeme Souness(tho I don't think he would work for Venkys tbh)

but at the end of the day we have manager and there is no vacancy.

Don't really post on here anymore but thought i'd share this... Heard Gallagher (preston) has said that Grayson could be going Rovers as Bowyer could be surprisingly going to Derby... Grayson and Shaw are mates apparently.

Thanks for sharing your info

[Athlete]

Don't really post on here anymore but thought i'd share this... Heard Gallagher (preston) has said that Grayson could be going Rovers as Bowyer could be surprisingly going to Derby... Grayson and Shaw are mates apparently.

That is very plausable.....that rumour been doing the rounds as even if Derby go up Maclaren seemingly on way Newcastle...

I for one would be happy if that happened my only concern is Grayson hasn't done it at this level but has been been a big success in League one promotion stakes but it is worth a shout

[Gav]

Barring the odd judicious signing, eg gestede, what is it that bowyer does well?

motivate the players, set the team up, in-game tactical adjustments, appointing backroom staff, psychological approach, what is it exactly that he's good at?

He can spot a player as you've already alluded too, which is invaluable in our current plight. We'll soon find out if it was a fluke or not with players leaving in the summer.

His motivational skills are debatable, but I think he creates a feeling of unity in the squad which is important, but bread and butter for most managers.

We all need to remember he's a rookie manager, that often gets forgotten. I believe he saved us from being relegated to 1st division, many would say no time for sentiment.

But what it all boils down to is Venkys are the problem, everything else is just a side show.

[broadsword]

Fair summation, but I think it only emphasises the need to have an experienced mean in charge. Which of course with Venkys will never happen

[Gav]

Fair summation, but I think it only emphasises the need to have an experienced mean in charge. Which of course with Venkys will never happen

Sadly it won't happen you're right.

We are crying out for experience throughout the club, Venkys won't address that issue which means we can't progress.

So why are they still here? Losing money hand over fist? Doesn't add up.

[Baz]

He can spot a player as you've already alluded too, which is invaluable in our current plight. We'll soon find out if it was a fluke or not with players leaving in the summer.

His motivational skills are debatable, but I think he creates a feeling of unity in the squad which is important, but bread and butter for most managers.

We all need to remember he's a rookie manager, that often gets forgotten. I believe he saved us from being relegated to 1st division, many would say no time for sentiment.

But what it all boils down to is Venkys are the problem, everything else is just a side show.

1 out of 20+ signings to me reeks of luck rather than ability Gav.

[broadsword]

It doesn't add up ... It just takes away!

it's a miserable situation. Not because of the league we're in. I can handle not being in the top flight.

It's the continual incompetence and trough feeding that is so dreadfully demoralising. There seems little chance of any change there

1 out of 20+ signings to me reeks of luck rather than ability Gav.

baptiste has been good. When not played out of position. Marshall had been decent until manager played him out of position. Conway not bad but played on wrong side.

He does seem to have a thing of b putting square pegs in round holes

[Gav]

1 out of 20+ signings to me reeks of luck rather than ability Gav.

Yes I agree with Bryan, Baptiste is quality in my book, Cairney just needs to find some consistency as does Marshall and several other Bowyer signings. But that's the reason these players are in championship and not the premiership, consistency.

Ironically we might not see it until Bowyer leaves.

[chris_h]

Abbey ignore Chris, he's a prick

Blimey, MENSA is ganging up on me now!

[DE.]

He can spot a player as you've already alluded too, which is invaluable in our current plight. We'll soon find out if it was a fluke or not with players leaving in the summer.

His motivational skills are debatable, but I think he creates a feeling of unity in the squad which is important, but bread and butter for most managers.

We all need to remember he's a rookie manager, that often gets forgotten. I believe he saved us from being relegated to 1st division, many would say no time for sentiment.

But what it all boils down to is Venkys are the problem, everything else is just a side show.

Fair points Gav. I think Bowyer would make a good assistant, which would allow him to gain more experience under a proper manager. Unfortunately he's been thrust right into the hot seat - not his fault, but it's still an overpromotion which is costing us.

Venky's have been stupid - to some degree they may have learned some lessons, albeit too late, but they still don't seem to have grasped that a good, strong manager is needed at the helm if we are to move forward. If they'd understood this sooner we may well be challenging for the top spots, regardless of our financial woes. They've fended off bids for our best players, they've followed a sensible recruitment principle, they've been patient with the current manager and allowed him the time and funds to strengthen where necessary.

The problem is, they've put their faith in the wrong people from day 1 and continue to do so. They cannot grasp the notion of a strong boardroom and manager leading to progression and success. I don't know if they just don't care or think they know better, but their ignorance has left us treading water ever since Kean resigned, and now we're in a position where even if they did finally wake up to the reality of the situation, it may be far too late.

[broadsword]

Yes I agree with Bryan, Baptiste is quality in my book, Cairney just needs to find some consistency as does Marshall and several other Bowyer signings. But that's the reason these players are in championship and not the premiership, consistency.

Ironically we might not see it until Bowyer leaves.

do you not think he's been getting players in not looking at the big picture but instead looking at players he can add value to and sell for a profit, to get into venky good books?

it's one possible explanation for why he doesn't seem to know his best eleven, why he doesn't seem to pick the same eleven two games running and why players can often find themselves playing out of position. Notwithstanding the amount of injuries we've had, but then it does seem that the players aren't even fit.

Just a theory

[Gav]

Fair points Gav. I think Bowyer would make a good assistant, which would allow him to gain more experience under a proper manager. Unfortunately he's been thrust right into the hot seat - not his fault, but it's still an overpromotion which is costing us.

Venky's have been stupid - to some degree they may have learned some lessons, albeit too late, but they still don't seem to have grasped that a good, strong manager is needed at the helm if we are to move forward. If they'd understood this sooner we may well be challenging for the top spots, regardless of our financial woes. They've fended off bids for our best players, they've followed a sensible recruitment principle, they've been patient with the current manager and allowed him the time and funds to strengthen where necessary.

The problem is, they've put their faith in the wrong people from day 1 and continue to do so. They cannot grasp the notion of a strong boardroom and manager leading to progression and success. I don't know if they just don't care or think they know better, but their ignorance has left us treading water ever since Kean resigned, and now we're in a position where even if they did finally wake up to the reality of the situation, it may be far too late.

Amen DE

do you not think he's been getting players in not looking at the big picture but instead looking at players he can add value to and sell for a profit, to get into venky good books?

it's one possible explanation for why he doesn't seem to know his best eleven, why he doesn't seem to pick the same eleven two games running and why players can often find themselves playing out of position. Notwithstanding the amount of injuries we've had, but then it does seem that the players aren't even fit.

Just a theory

Bowyer is no different to any other manager since Souness, we need to sell a player every couple of seasons to balance the books, and we did ok at doing that.

I don't think Bowyer is picking different sides week in week out with that in mind, but it's odd, so nobody can be blamed for thinking that to be the reason.

[Rover_Shaun]

hell fire. We are well beyond players balancing the books even if we still had the players that could command a large 8 figure transfer fees

[Baz]

Yes I agree with Bryan, Baptiste is quality in my book, Cairney just needs to find some consistency as does Marshall and several other Bowyer signings. But that's the reason these players are in championship and not the premiership, consistency.

Ironically we might not see it until Bowyer leaves.

Burnley & quite a few of those above us have brought in players with consistency in this league for little outlay.

Marshall we paid around a million for, I doubt you would get anyone to give you more than that for him.

Cairney is a good footballer, but you can't fit him in a team, too slow to play wide, to lightweight to play centrally.

Baptiste - done well, but he's hardly a find when he's played for 2 clubs in this league.

Gestede to me remains the exception rather than the rule.

[tomphil]

That is very plausable.....that rumour been doing the rounds as even if Derby go up Maclaren seemingly on way Newcastle...

I for one would be happy if that happened my only concern is Grayson hasn't done it at this level but has been been a big success in League one promotion stakes but it is worth a shout

Although I'm not on the Grayson bandwagon he seems a steady type of manager so he would surely be quite a safe bet. Maybe enough to stop the whole club from self combusting like some preach should saint Gaz step aside so could be worth a gamble should the circumstances arise.