[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[DE.]

*insert something about Appleton/Berg & stability*

Progress, Toppers. Progress.

[Tom]

How did he sum up the season on the pitch at the end?

[Gav]

Well Steve McLaren may be available soon

The vast majority of the Bowyer out brigade put McLaren and Derby forward as being the side we could be, you know who you are and you got it badly wrong.

[Tom]

The vast majority of the Bowyer out brigade put McLaren and Derby forward as being the side we could be, you know who you are and you got it badly wrong.

All we know is that Bowyer failed here with the promotion effort there is no evidence to prove any other manager would fail even if the signs point towards it.

I would wager we would have ended this season with more points with McLaren than bowyer

[tomphil]

Derby bottled it simple as that. Bigger the club, crowds etc then bigger the weight of expectation and pressure. We've seen it before with clubs who've done well all season then blown it. Nearly happened to us under Kenny, it wasn't the manager it was the players nerves. Players who've played well all season making uncharacteristic mistakes, strikers rushing chances in front of goal. Pressure simple as that.

[Gav]

All we know is that Bowyer failed here with the promotion effort there is no evidence to prove any other manager would fail even if the signs point towards it.

I would wager we would have ended this season with more points with McLaren than bowyer

They both failed to reach the heights expected, most would have had MaClaren here in a flash, he was being held up as some sort of messiah, they've been made to look silly really.

Point being it's not as easy as it seems this changing managers lark.

[JBiz]

Derby arguably have a better squad. Top 6 times in a season yet finish 8th.

The word "spectacular" was used to describe GBs failings this season. Does that mean Stevie Mc has failed "monumentally"? Or "seismically"?

The experience he has- unforgivable and should go. Back to the continent for the wally.

[blueboy3333]

Derby bottled it simple as that. Bigger the club, crowds etc then bigger the weight of expectation and pressure. We've seen it before with clubs who've done well all season then blown it. Nearly happened to us under Kenny, it wasn't the manager it was the players nerves. Players who've played well all season making uncharacteristic mistakes, strikers rushing chances in front of goal. Pressure simple as that.

so when Derby fail it's the players fault and pressure, when Rovers fail it's the managers fault. At least you consistently talk out of your arse.

[Tom]

Ultimately he has failed as has Bowyer

One will rightfully come under scrutiny whilst one inexplicably is safe as houses.

[DE.]

Derby arguably have a better squad. Top 6 times in a season yet finish 8th.

The word "spectacular" was used to describe GBs failings this season. Does that mean Stevie Mc has failed "monumentally"? Or "seismically"?

The experience he has- unforgivable and should go. Back to the continent for the wally.

McClaren's failure eclipses Bowyer by some margin. His inability to halt their collapse doesn't reflect well on him as a manager.

[West Yorks Rover]

Ultimately he has failed as has Bowyer

One will rightfully come under scrutiny whilst one inexplicably is safe as houses.

Spot on Tom, and if Derby decide they no longer want McClaren, I'd take him over Bowyer in a flash.

Having said that, he'd probably have far too much sense to take the job after resigning from Forest

because of all the off the field cr*p with the owners/directors.

[JBiz]

Easily best team we played at Ewood this season IMO (derby). I can't fathom how they've managed it, perhaps it points to a stronger league than some give it credit. Especially when you see where ex prem teams, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff etc finished.

[Tom]

I thought as a team Brentford and Norwich were more impressive

[JBiz]

Spot on Tom, and if Derby decide they no longer want McClaren, I'd take him over Bowyer in a flash.

What's he achieved at this level in his last two jobs?

Abject failure. Has some excuses for Forest but not for county. I just listened to him blame last seasons 46 games and playoff exertion on running out of steam this season.....

Don't wish this wally on us.

I thought as a team Brentford and Norwich were more impressive

Couldn't comment, I missed both those games I think- deffo the Brentford one I had a rehearsal. Can't remember the Norwich one.

[DE.]

Easily best team we played at Ewood this season IMO (derby). I can't fathom how they've managed it, perhaps it points to a stronger league than some give it credit. Especially when you see where ex prem teams, Wigan, Fulham, Cardiff etc finished.

Points to a poor manager. The ex Prem teams were in disarray when they came down - I said at the start of the season Norwich would be the only threat and so they have been. It was pretty obvious.

[Hasta]

They both failed to reach the heights expected, most would have had MaClaren here in a flash, he was being held up as some sort of messiah, they've been made to look silly really.

Point being it's not as easy as it seems this changing managers lark.

Noone knows what would have happened had we changed manager at the start of the season (or during it) and we never will.

However many of us said what would happen if we didn't change and those people have been proved correct.

Now many people who wanted Bowyer to stop told us that next season would be the season GB would really push us on and that was the season they expected us to challenge. I really, really hope they are correct but I expect to be pointing out how silly they have been made to look in 12 months.

[Stuart]

Ultimately he has failed as has Bowyer

One will rightfully come under scrutiny whilst one inexplicably is safe as houses.

Exactly right. Bowyer is beyond reproach for some reason.

Season 1: he was only in charge for part of it - a full season is required

Season 2: he is learning his trade - stabilising the club - he needs two years and 4 transfer windows before he can be judged - "just" missed out on the play-offs

Season 3: he has been hamstrung by FFP and the embargo (during the crucial fourth window) and needs four seasons at least before he can be judged - only 11 points off the play-offs - better than x, y, z team (who haven't anywhere near the infrastructure or facilities that Rovers have)

Season 4: with a transfer embargo not going to be lifted (despite other clubs in worst trouble than us finding a way to get their accounts past scrutiny) the excuses are already lined up. Promotion is not even a consideration. Bowyer continues to be rewarded for his own failure.

The truth is that he has been backed to the hilt and until now at least has not had to sell anyone that he hasn't wanted to. Despite paying players that he cannot manage and that the club cannot afford. Despite no real successes in promoting players from the academy or reserves.

Damning indeed is the fact that Olsson is one of our best players, and that a 35 year old can still make such a big difference to the team that Gaz built.

Season ticket prices are not the only thing that is frozen, the football is frozen too.

[RevidgeBlue]

Whether McClaren has failed or not at Derby is completely irrelevant. GB has contrived to have a terrible season here with the luxury of a 40+ goal strikeforce imo.

And whatever disparaging comments you might make about Derby, they still finished out of sight in comparison to us.

Good post from USA earlier. The owners should make Warburton an offer he can't refuse to come here. No appointment is an absolute guarantee of success but if he could replicate Brentford's work ethic and style of play at Ewood I'd wager we'd be a lot closer to being successful next season than we have been this.

[Gav]

Noone knows what would have happened had we changed manner at the start of the season (or during it) and we never will.

However many of us said what would happen if we didn't change and those people have been proved correct.

Now many people who wanted Bowyer to stop told us that next season would be the season GB would really push us on and that was the season they expected us to be challenge. I really, really hope they are correct but I expect to be pointing out how silly they have been made to look.

Sadly time and time again the Bowyer out brigade has put forward potential replacements that are bigger failures than Bowyer, MaClaren being the latest in a long line.

That's the point I was making Hasta and no amount of spin can change that fact.

All that said we need a change, of owners, Bowyer is nothing more than a side show.

[Parsonblue]

Ultimately he has failed as has Bowyer

One will rightfully come under scrutiny whilst one inexplicably is safe as houses.

McClaren won't be too bothered as reports suggest he is off to Newcastle.

Whether McClaren has failed or not at Derby is completely irrelevant. GB has contrived to have a terrible season here with the luxury of a 40+ goal strikeforce imo.

And whatever disparaging comments you might make about Derby, they still finished out of sight in comparison to us.

Good post from USA earlier. The owners should make Warburton an offer he can't refuse to come here. No appointment is an absolute guarantee of success but if he could replicate Brentford's work ethic and style of play at Ewood I'd wager we'd be a lot closer to being successful next season than we have been this.

And yet despite the 40+ strike force all the teams above us have scored more goals which suggests that Rhodes and Gestede alone are not going to get you promotion. The team has simply not been good enough or consistent enough and at the end of the day we are where we deserve to be after 46 matches.

[DE.]

Sadly time and time again the Bowyer out brigade has put forward potential replacements that are bigger failures than Bowyer, MaClaren being the latest in a long line.

That's the point I was making Hasta and no amount of spin can change that fact.

All that said we need a change, of owners, Bowyer is nothing more than a side show.

We're not going to get a change of owners though, Gav. Not for a while anyway. The ONLY realistic change that can be made at present to improve our situation is to bring in a new manager to try and arrest our decline before it is out of control. Wanting to replace Bowyer only when we're in the relegation mire is very short sighted and will give the new manager a much harder task.

[RevidgeBlue]

McClaren won't be too bothered as reports suggest he is off to Newcastle.

And yet despite the 40+ strike force all the teams above us have scored more goals which suggests that Rhodes and Gestede alone are not going to get you promotion. The team has simply not been good enough or consistent enough and at the end of the day we are where we deserve to be after 46 matches.

Lack of goals hasn't been our Achilles heel, it's already been well documented we've dropped 27 points from winning positions this season.

I know you're a big supporter of GB but as an experienced observer of football surely you can see the difference between us and say Brentford. They're enthusiastic, motivated and always looking to give their team mates options when they have the ball. We stand about and don't work hard enough on or off the ball. I can't see that ever changing under GB, no matter what the playing personnel.

[Blue blood]

They both failed to reach the heights expected, most would have had MaClaren here in a flash, he was being held up as some sort of messiah, they've been made to look silly really.

Point being it's not as easy as it seems this changing managers lark.

Derby arguably have a better squad. Top 6 times in a season yet finish 8th.

The word "spectacular" was used to describe GBs failings this season. Does that mean Stevie Mc has failed "monumentally"? Or "seismically"?

The experience he has- unforgivable and should go. Back to the continent for the wally.

Whether McClaren has failed or not at Derby is completely irrelevant. GB has contrived to have a terrible season here with the luxury of a 40+ goal strikeforce imo.

And whatever disparaging comments you might make about Derby, they still finished out of sight in comparison to us.

Good post from USA earlier. The owners should make Warburton an offer he can't refuse to come here. No appointment is an absolute guarantee of success but if he could replicate Brentford's work ethic and style of play at Ewood I'd wager we'd be a lot closer to being successful next season than we have been this.

Great post Rev. McClaren's failure makes not one jot of difference to the poor job Bowyer has done this season.

For those saying that we shouldn't sack Bowyer look at how McClaren turned out - the argument is fallacy on so many levels.

Firstly, unlike us, they've been in with a shout all season. For us the league season finished effectively in February - that's massive improvement on us.

Secondly today they could've still got into the playoffs but massively mucked up one game. Bowyer has been nowhere near one game costing us this season.

Thirdly for all talk of player value I'd warrant more of Derbys squad have increased in value than ours. Not that that's the marker, but I'm struggling to see why Derby's failure today makes Bowyer any more of a top manager or even a "keeper."

Fourthly if we're using hindsight well how about Warburton - knowing he's on the way out yet still keeping the players motivated and getting them into the playoffs. Comparisons show others are doing a much better job than GB.

Maybe we were wrong on McClaren being a good choice. But then he has only "just" missed out - as oppose to us not being at the races at all. He's had success with Boro and in Holland - all of which is infinitely more than Bowyer has done. Put simply I'd say Derby are progressing faster than us, and whilst today was a setback and failure for them, they're a lot further forward than us...

[Hasta]

Sadly time and time again the Bowyer out brigade has put forward potential replacements that are bigger failures than Bowyer, MaClaren being the latest in a long line.

That's the point I was making Hasta and no amount of spin can change that fact.

All that said we need a change, of owners, Bowyer is nothing more than a side show.

Spin? I'm not speculating at all on whether McLaren would or would not have been a success at Rovers like others (including yourself are). Im just stating that Bowyer has failed in his task this year.

It appears that you a re the one trying to spin Bowyers failure by bringing McLaren into the equation.

[JBiz]

Exactly right. Bowyer is beyond reproach for some reason.

Season 1: he was only in charge for part of it - a full season is required

Season 2: he is learning his trade - stabilising the club - he needs two years and 4 transfer windows before he can be judged - "just" missed out on the play-offs

Season 3: he has been hamstrung by FFP and the embargo (during the crucial fourth window) and needs four seasons at least before he can be judged - only 11 points off the play-offs - better than x, y, z team (who haven't anywhere near the infrastructure or facilities that Rovers have)

Season 4: with a transfer embargo not going to be lifted (despite other clubs in worst trouble than us finding a way to get their accounts past scrutiny) the excuses are already lined up. Promotion is not even a consideration. Bowyer continues to be rewarded for his own failure.

The truth is that he has been backed to the hilt and until now at least has not had to sell anyone that he hasn't wanted to. Despite paying players that he cannot manage and that the club cannot afford. Despite no real successes in promoting players from the academy or reserves.

Damning indeed is the fact that Olsson is one of our best players, and that a 35 year old can still make such a big difference to the team that Gaz built.

Season ticket prices are not the only thing that is frozen, the football is frozen too.

The truth is that the bigger picture remains in place yet many seek to ignore it.

It's not just about who may come, or who we may replace. Why is it so black and white that GB has had his time needed/needs replacing? I'm starting the believe that Kean poisoned the chalice so to speak, so much- we will never be able to view the managers position in the same way again.

Player of the season who looked lost a season ago and likely on his way out- that's a damning fact suggesting our team is poor? I'd say that's just spin. Completely attributing his development to GB is as stupid as saying that it's "despite" GB. It's also crass to be so dismissive of a player whose consistently put a shift in and performed well.

You ignore the FACTs somewhat also. You allude to players that GB can't manage but don't specify... Is that just generally everyone? Or DJ Gambell or Leon Best or Danny Murphy or Dixon Etuhu or Jordan Slew etc? All who've taken likely 10m+ out of this club for ZERO return.

Also Stuart, can you point me in the direction of the teams in worse financial positions than us? Yes, some clubs are in as much debt but how many had a noose wrapped round their necks by criminals charading as professionals?

The way that the the club was hamstrung the day SA left- still doesn't get talked about enough when looking at moving forward. Experience and expense replaced by charlatans. Every step of the way, ever time we've had chance to improve. Our "Rogue Chairman" is a huge factor in this debate - we know the last one he chose cost 500k a game or 4m a win.

Then you have the famous "consultancy" who gave us Appleton and Kean.

"The defending to the hilt" or "GB is beyond reproach" is another way of saying that others opinions are ridiculous. You've had a dig at me for being personal- isn't this more dismissive and therefore worse for discussion?

Truth is IMVHO we haven't achieved what we could. There's more to that though, and to try and quote Gumboots(couldn't find the thread it was in but something like) - "I can only have respect for GB after what he did initially and knowing his intentions are in the right place".

It's still difficult to know what season 4 will hold as what you say could come to fruition- however I think that we should be more realistic about expectations somewhat. We all expect a fire sale, but to this day (as you point out) has never happened so why expect it again?

If I was a betting man, if say the chance of GB getting us promoted next season are slim. I'd wager more on that, than us appointing someone who will guarantee promotion.