[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[chris_h]

Getting personal again ...shock horror

To be honest, on reflection, my post was a bit strong and an over reaction.

I won't be taking lessons on message board etiquette from you though. You really don't get irony.

[Amo]

I really hope Lowe and Hanley don't just come back into the team automatically, if players in their position have lost form by the time they are fit then that's different!

They will. You know, I know it, everyone knows it. The Bowyer Babes are untouchable.

[ABBEY]

To be honest, on reflection, my post was a bit strong and an over reaction.

I won't be taking lessons on message board etiquette from you though. You really don't get irony.

I don't do irony .. I tell it as it is.

What I don't do is be nasty like some do on here .

[chris_h]

I don't do irony .. I tell it as it is.

What I don't do is be nasty like some do on here .

I'm not getting into this with you.

Suffice to say, you're completely deluded and devoid of any self awareness.

[ABBEY]

Aye ok .. Life lessons from a wannabe Aussie ..

Nah I will pass on that one Sheila

[JBiz]

I know you don't like it but I watch with great interest what team is selected when we have a fully fit squad. Experience and history says that Hanley and Lowe will be back and performing players dropped. We shall see.

That's just exactly my point in a nutshell. Impossible to discuss anything squad related with someone who thinks in this way.

Your welcome to your opinion on players, but going to the paranoid length to try and prove that the manager has an ulterior motive when choosing them....

You don't rate them, fair enough. I didn't rate Chris Taylor beyond a hard working clogger with a touch like a midwife. Do you think I'd start fact finding to see if his contract is the work of "dark forces"?

No, id accept that maybe the people in charge see what his worth is- low and behold he has some good games in the cup and my opinion of him improved.

The Lowe and Hanley point for you (IMO) is guilt by association- particularly with Lowe. We know his strengths and weakness it's been done to death, but this paranoia you have with him is because he was in the team that lost a hell of a lot of games under the previous 4 managers, and his being talked up by Kean likely did him no favours.

[chris_h]

Aye ok .. Life lessons from a wannabe Aussie ..

Nah I will pass on that one Sheila

Maybe you could take lessons from your brother. He's still over from Brisbane on his Christmas hols isn't he? Or is he flying in especially for the Liverpool game? Have you worked out which yet?

[Parsonblue]

"We got relegated-----it happens" Puhleeeeeese! Thousands of fans told them we were going to get relegated with Kean. We all knew!

Relegation happens to 3 clubs every year but never in the way we were. I cannot get over it as you seem to have, I feel sick in the stomach just thinking about it. I will never forget or forgive.

I felt like that during the first season after relegation 47er but ultimately, decided that it was doing me no good. When Gary become caretaker I decided it was time to look forward not back and I must say that I've enjoyed my football again since that time. I can't undo the mistakes made but I choose to support a manager who I believe is doing his best to restore some pride - which I think he has done - into the club. I believe Bowyer is continuing to learn as a manager, is continuing to grow. He may not always pick the players I might pick but he knows far more about how players are fitness wise, performing in training etc. I've seen the likes of Hanley and Lowe have good games and I've seen them have poor games the same as any player. At the end of the day I support the players on the pitch wearing the 'Blue & White.'

I have never wavered from the fact that after the Kean-Black-Berg-Appleton-Shebby farce, I believed that whoever was appointed would need a good four years to turn this club around. I still do. Bowyer is coming to the end of his second full season as manager and whilst I accept others disagree, I believe he has made tremendous progress in taking the club forward. Of course, there are still problems - Best with another twelve months of an eye watering contract for one - but there are plenty of positives. I have no doubt that some players will have to be sold to balance the books but Bowyer has shown that he has a good eye for a player and has been very good in terms of bringing players in for little or no money.

I don't believe you can put a timeframe on promotion. All you can do is build a solid foundation which gives you the best chance of achieving that goal. This season inconsistency has been a problem at both ends of the pitch. Games we have dominated - both home and away - haven't brought the results they should. Manager, coaching staff and individual players are responsible for that but there are signs that we are showing an improvement in that area. It can only be improved by hard work on the training ground. The spirit within the squad is clearly very good - you only have to look at the performance yesterday to see that.

Ultimately, whilst we all know the owners brought about our downfall, I'm not prepared to let those actions ruin my enjoyment of following a club I've supported all my life.

[ABBEY]

Hols ? He lives there and coming home on 27th and going back after the Liverpool game ?

Nothing to work out .

It must be great living in your brain

I felt like that during the first season after relegation 47er but ultimately, decided that it was doing me no good. When Gary become caretaker I decided it was time to look forward not back and I must say that I've enjoyed my football again since that time. I can't undo the mistakes made but I choose to support a manager who I believe is doing his best to restore some pride - which I think he has done - into the club. I believe Bowyer is continuing to learn as a manager, is continuing to grow. He may not always pick the players I might pick but he knows far more about how players are fitness wise, performing in training etc. I've seen the likes of Hanley and Lowe have good games and I've seen them have poor games the same as any player. At the end of the day I support the players on the pitch wearing the 'Blue & White.'

I have never wavered from the fact that after the Kean-Black-Berg-Appleton-Shebby farce, I believed that whoever was appointed would need a good four years to turn this club around. I still do. Bowyer is coming to the end of his second full season as manager and whilst I accept others disagree, I believe he has made tremendous progress in taking the club forward. Of course, there are still problems - Best with another twelve months of an eye watering contract for one - but there are plenty of positives. I have no doubt that some players will have to be sold to balance the books but Bowyer has shown that he has a good eye for a player and has been very good in terms of bringing players in for little or no money.

I don't believe you can put a timeframe on promotion. All you can do is build a solid foundation which gives you the best chance of achieving that goal. This season inconsistency has been a problem at both ends of the pitch. Games we have dominated - both home and away - haven't brought the results they should. Manager, coaching staff and individual players are responsible for that but there are signs that we are showing an improvement in that area. It can only be improved by hard work on the training ground. The spirit within the squad is clearly very good - you only have to look at the performance yesterday to see that.

Ultimately, whilst we all know the owners brought about our downfall, I'm not prepared to let those actions ruin my enjoyment of following a club I've supported all my life.

So your last paragraph is fingers in ears blowing raspberries and pretending you can't hear ?

[Stuart]

That's just exactly my point in a nutshell. Impossible to discuss anything squad related with someone who thinks in this way.

Your welcome to your opinion on players, but going to the paranoid length to try and prove that the manager has an ulterior motive when choosing them....

You don't rate them, fair enough. I didn't rate Chris Taylor beyond a hard working clogger with a touch like a midwife. Do you think I'd start fact finding to see if his contract is the work of "dark forces"?

No, id accept that maybe the people in charge see what his worth is- low and behold he has some good games in the cup and my opinion of him improved.

The Lowe and Hanley point for you (IMO) is guilt by association- particularly with Lowe. We know his strengths and weakness it's been done to death, but this paranoia you have with him is because he was in the team that lost a hell of a lot of games under the previous 4 managers, and his being talked up by Kean likely did him no favours.

But we are debating it.

We just have different views. I'm not sure it's ulterior motives just poor choices. But it's the same poor choices. This is a reflection of Bowyer, and him not learning, rather than the players.

Hand on heart, with everyone in our squad fit and available, would Hanley or Lowe be in your starting XI?

...because they are in Bowyer's.

[chris_h]

Hols ? He lives there and coming home on 27th and going back after the Liverpool game ?

Nothing to work out .

It must be great living in your brain

Not going to bore everyone else with this but that's pretty funny.

If you're going to make stuff up get your story straight first. This Sheila has to be up for work in the morning, good night Cobber.

[ABBEY]

Make up?

Bet you don't work in a charm school

[Parsonblue]

So your last paragraph is fingers in ears blowing raspberries and pretending you can't hear ?

So are you saying the alternative is not to support the Rovers Abbey? We all know we have problems but that's the time your club needs your support most is it not?

[ABBEY]

There's keeping it real and then there's blowing smoke

[Stuart]

I felt like that during the first season after relegation 47er but ultimately, decided that it was doing me no good. When Gary become caretaker I decided it was time to look forward not back and I must say that I've enjoyed my football again since that time. I can't undo the mistakes made but I choose to support a manager who I believe is doing his best to restore some pride - which I think he has done - into the club. I believe Bowyer is continuing to learn as a manager, is continuing to grow. He may not always pick the players I might pick but he knows far more about how players are fitness wise, performing in training etc. I've seen the likes of Hanley and Lowe have good games and I've seen them have poor games the same as any player. At the end of the day I support the players on the pitch wearing the 'Blue & White.'

I have never wavered from the fact that after the Kean-Black-Berg-Appleton-Shebby farce, I believed that whoever was appointed would need a good four years to turn this club around. I still do. Bowyer is coming to the end of his second full season as manager and whilst I accept others disagree, I believe he has made tremendous progress in taking the club forward. Of course, there are still problems - Best with another twelve months of an eye watering contract for one - but there are plenty of positives. I have no doubt that some players will have to be sold to balance the books but Bowyer has shown that he has a good eye for a player and has been very good in terms of bringing players in for little or no money.

I don't believe you can put a timeframe on promotion. All you can do is build a solid foundation which gives you the best chance of achieving that goal. This season inconsistency has been a problem at both ends of the pitch. Games we have dominated - both home and away - haven't brought the results they should. Manager, coaching staff and individual players are responsible for that but there are signs that we are showing an improvement in that area. It can only be improved by hard work on the training ground. The spirit within the squad is clearly very good - you only have to look at the performance yesterday to see that.

Ultimately, whilst we all know the owners brought about our downfall, I'm not prepared to let those actions ruin my enjoyment of following a club I've supported all my life.

Good post.

Couple of things I'd pick at:

You seem to keep adding a extra year to your time Bowyer needs each season. You've just given him another two without any pressure or expectation. That can't be healthy.

I can't speak for away games as I'm not able to get to very many but the games we have dominated and been unlucky at home have been few, in my view. However, I accept that's subjective.

You also assume that Venkys have not and will not put a time frame on promotion. That makes no logical sense. Why would they?

[JBiz]

But we are debating it.

We just have different views. I'm not sure it's ulterior motives just poor choices. But it's the same poor choices. This is a reflection of Bowyer, and him not learning, rather than the players.

Hand on heart, with everyone in our squad fit and available, would Hanley or Lowe be in your starting XI?

...because they are in Bowyer's.

On current form, no to Hanley. I'd personally have Lowe in centre if we were playing 451- with cairney and Evans. He's also out second best right back IMO so he's a decent squad shout.

In their best form though, I'd have kill gallon and Hanley. Not seen enough of Henry, Duffy is still a bit raw and not quite seen enough bar that one standout performance against Stoke. Baptiste is close also- I guess that's testament to the depth we've assembled on a shoe string with loans.

I think many people disregard the impact that Olsson and Henley have had this year. I would have argued till I was blue in the face that we needed a full back last summer, but with Lowe, Henley, spurr, Olson, we have depth in those positions.

See the thing you and top man have done is make an opinion on a player, then use that to form an opinion on the manager! Whilst your perfectly fine to do this, I just think it's a bit rich to assume you "know" Lowe and Hanley are complete dollopers not fit to wear the shirt and therefore GB has ulterior motives and/or is stupid.

I think many people (many professionals in the sport) would see a different story on those two. I think it's similar to the Wilcox debacle- if you've seen a player play 150 times, your disposition or character will likely define what you remember most in those games!

[Amo]

See the thing you and top man have done is make an opinion on a player, then use that to form an opinion on the manager!

When the manager continues to blindly pick said players, then yes.

Whilst your perfectly fine to do this, I just think it's a bit rich to assume you "know" Lowe and Hanley are complete dollopers not fit to wear the shirt and therefore GB has ulterior motives and/or is stupid.

No ulterior motives. Bowyer just has myopia when it comes to two of the players he brought through the youth team. All the flak Hanley has come under has now created a siege mentality and Bowyer will be more determined than ever to prove his faith in his young captain is not misplaced, even if it's to the detriment of the team.

[JBiz]

If that was true toppers, why did he sign Duffy and get rid of the O'Connell and O'Conners of this world?

[Amo]

If that was true toppers, why did he sign Duffy and get rid of the O'Connell and O'Conners of this world?

I don't follow. I'm talking specifically about Lowe & Hanley, not every player from the youth team.

[47er]

I felt like that during the first season after relegation 47er but ultimately, decided that it was doing me no good. When Gary become caretaker I decided it was time to look forward not back and I must say that I've enjoyed my football again since that time. I can't undo the mistakes made but I choose to support a manager who I believe is doing his best to restore some pride - which I think he has done - into the club. I believe Bowyer is continuing to learn as a manager, is continuing to grow. He may not always pick the players I might pick but he knows far more about how players are fitness wise, performing in training etc. I've seen the likes of Hanley and Lowe have good games and I've seen them have poor games the same as any player. At the end of the day I support the players on the pitch wearing the 'Blue & White.'

I have never wavered from the fact that after the Kean-Black-Berg-Appleton-Shebby farce, I believed that whoever was appointed would need a good four years to turn this club around. I still do. Bowyer is coming to the end of his second full season as manager and whilst I accept others disagree, I believe he has made tremendous progress in taking the club forward. Of course, there are still problems - Best with another twelve months of an eye watering contract for one - but there are plenty of positives. I have no doubt that some players will have to be sold to balance the books but Bowyer has shown that he has a good eye for a player and has been very good in terms of bringing players in for little or no money.

I don't believe you can put a timeframe on promotion. All you can do is build a solid foundation which gives you the best chance of achieving that goal. This season inconsistency has been a problem at both ends of the pitch. Games we have dominated - both home and away - haven't brought the results they should. Manager, coaching staff and individual players are responsible for that but there are signs that we are showing an improvement in that area. It can only be improved by hard work on the training ground. The spirit within the squad is clearly very good - you only have to look at the performance yesterday to see that.

Ultimately, whilst we all know the owners brought about our downfall, I'm not prepared to let those actions ruin my enjoyment of following a club I've supported all my life.

When you have supported Rovers all your life I find it difficult to understand how you can write "we got relegated---it happens"

Like you I remember 1966, "too good to go down" said the press.

25 years to get back, my twenties, thirties and half of my forties desperately longing to be in Div 1. All those near misses.

Then thrown away as lightly as a used tissue by a family of idiots who didn't give a toss.

Can't get over it, won't get over it.

[Stuart]

Jb... Hanley is a squad player in my side, as is Lowe. I'd have no problem with Hanley coming on due to injuries or Lowe coming on to help close out a game we are winning.

Steele

Olsson - Kilgallon - Baptiste - Henley

Marshall - Cairney - Spearing - Conway

Gestede - Rhodes

Eastwood

Duffy (cb cover)

Henry (cb cover)

Hanley (cb cover)

Spurr (lb cover)

Lowe (rb cover - after Baptiste)

Evans (cm)

Taylor (cm/rw/lw)

King (lw / st)

Brown (st)

Gone

Robinson (cost / age)

Williamson (age)

Dunn (age)

[Parsonblue]

Good post.

Couple of things I'd pick at:

You seem to keep adding a extra year to your time Bowyer needs each season. You've just given him another two without any pressure or expectation. That can't be healthy.

I can't speak for away games as I'm not able to get to very many but the games we have dominated and been unlucky at home have been few, in my view. However, I accept that's subjective.

You also assume that Venkys have not and will not put a time frame on promotion. That makes no logical sense. Why would they?

To answer your first point Stuart, I think I've always said a new guy - Bowyer or whoever replaces him in the future - needs time. I think four years is fairly reasonable considering the state of the club when he took over. One of the problems is the number of players he inherited on stupid wages that had no future at the club. Fortunately, I think Best is the last but he has another twelve months left on his contract so in some respects his hands are still tied in terms of expenditure. Only when all the deadwood has been cleared can we give him a truly free hand in terms of buying and selling. I live in hope that Bolton might want Baptiste and Spearing out of the club and allow us to pick them up for free. Similarly, I'd like Henry back on a full season loan. With O'Sullivan and Lenihan likely to play a more prominent role in the senior squad next season I think there is scope for letting some of the out of contract players leave in the summer which will give him some room to bring in new blood.

As for lost points, I was thinking specifically, about Watford, Wigan and Bolton away to name but three. We really ought to have had nine points from those but poor finishing and poor defending let us down. Inconsistency has been the real Achilles' heel this season. Individual errors, by any number of players, have been punished to the full. Sometimes you get away with them but there was a period this season when every mistake seemed to result in a goal.

As for Venkys putting a time frame on promotion - who can say? I get the feeling that Mrs. Desai believes that Bowyer is someone she can trust and is therefore prepared to give him time. Much depends on how long they are prepared to back the club financially and again, how long is a piece of string? The lunacy that is FFP is not going to make it easier for clubs like the Rovers and it will be interesting to see what happens if QPR come down. Do they pay the fine or risk being put in League One or do they take it to court and spend a fortune fighting the Football League. I suspect that many clubs in the Championship will be waiting to see the outcome of that.

We might not agree on everything Stuart but it's always good to have a debate and at the end of the day we both want to see a successful Blackburn Rovers back in the top flight.

[Stuart]

The point was that you used to say two, then three, now four. If we were sat in the play-off places now, I don't think anyone would say we haven't progressed. But we are a way off. We haven't yet really felt the effect of FFP and astute management, an ability to bring in shrewd loans and frees, and motivate and organise them will be more important than ever. Bowyer has done reasonably well with loans, poor with freebies and has needed money to bring in anyone decent. His man-management, motivation and tactics have been very inconsistent . We are going to need to see a real change in approach from Bowyer if he is to do anything with a further two years.

Agree completely with your last sentence and the QPR point.

[ABBEY]

I think what gnarls at most fans is that the squad we have is capable of attacking the crap out of this division and the manager is to scared to do this. Instead we play boring negative foitball which , like it or lump lump it , is driving fans away . On wedsenday night I reckon about 75% of fans near us had left muttering and going mad about the game before we scored .

If bowyer tried to win games instead of hoping to Nick a win I reckon we would be top 2 . There's nothing to be scared of in this division and if he was brave fans would think different of him .

He is going to bore the crowd down to 4 or 5 thousand if he doesn't change . That's not drama queen that's the truth .

[Andyblue2]

I think what gnarls at most fans is that the squad we have is capable of attacking the crap out of this division and the manager is to scared to do this. Instead we play boring negative foitball which , like it or lump lump it , is driving fans away . On wedsenday night I reckon about 75% of fans near us had left muttering and going mad about the game before we scored .

If bowyer tried to win games instead of hoping to Nick a win I reckon we would be top 2 . There's nothing to be scared of in this division and if he was brave fans would think different of him .

He is going to bore the crowd down to 4 or 5 thousand if he doesn't change . That's not drama queen that's the truth .

Abbey in full effect. Great post.

Parson, read this. We don't hate bowyer, we just think a better manager would get this squad promoted. Alas, I think there will be a few leaving this summer and the chance goes. If our clubs form over the last five years was put into a graph, it would be a downward flow with a little spike for the last 10 weeks of last season. Ultimately, we are going one way