[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[booth]

I disagree Stuart, I think recent performances at Charlton, Sheffield, Liverpool, Watford etc. show that he is getting performances from the players. Sadly, this season we have not been consistent enough and that, combined with a number of individual errors, has meant we haven't got the points we would have hoped for.

It's frustrating because he gets performances from them sometimes, but for the rest of the games it's like they are a different manager and team. Both manager and players inconsistent but the buck has to stop with the manager, in the same way that when the team is doing well the manager will get the plaudits.

[Andyblue2]

I disagree Stuart, I think recent performances at Charlton, Sheffield, Liverpool, Watford etc. show that he is getting performances from the players. Sadly, this season we have not been consistent enough and that, combined with a number of individual errors, has meant we haven't got the points we would have hoped for.

But I can name you more games where we've been absolute rubbish, and our league position would back this up. You are just taking examples that suit your argument. Every team has a decent game every now and then,,,,wigan beat Norwich away I think. Overall in the league Bowyer has been average and we need above average

[tomphil]

It wont affect mine either. How about yours?

WTF are you on about now ?

[Pedro]

Boring, predictable and gutless.

But am I describing the manager or our style of play?

[thenodrog]

WTF are you on about now ?

More like wtf were you on about? Paypackets are not a consideration.

[Brfcrule1]

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't have brought him on (or bought him) but it's the tactics. When Rudy starts it's just hoof hoof and he just lurks about in the middle. Recently he's started Brown with Rhodes and he's done the donkey work of pressing and closing down as that's all he's good for and it's worked so against a team as busy as Brentford I'd have gone the same way seeing as it's been working. Rudy then gives a good option to come on and mix it up.

Anyway game was lost in midfield, over run down there and up here in the middle. No answer to it from the sidelines.

Tomp that maybe so but there is a massive difference with Rudy & Brown one scores goals the other doesn't. I think this sub highlights the problem with GB if I was a stranger looking in my big question Rudy for Brown why sometimes I think GB makes subs just for effect as there is no logic as to why he is bringing on some players and personally if we went with that logic & started with Brown then Rudy would not have scored the 1st goal and lets be honest how many on here could see Brown bustling through that Bees defence and being so clinical in front of goal? The point is for all his harrying bustling and trying to get defenders to make mistakes he doesn't do what it says on the tin he doesn't score goals and I hate to say it is probably the worst no.9 in the clubs history.

I hope that fans don’t go down the Kean Out route this time round. With Kean it was a unique set of circumstances and was culmination of many things that he allegedly played a part in (Big Sam leaving, John and Tom going, Influence of Agents and Turning the press against the fans).

This is not the case with Gary, on the field we all hoped for much more but he remains a genuinely nice guy.

The other thing is despite what fans say and do, the owners will not take a blind bit of notice. They will do as they please and the board at Ewood won’t question or challenge them, it is all very much “yes madam”.

Kamy I doubt it would get so ferocious but to expect people to sit there and do nothing is asking a lot and I agree with you Gary is a genuinely nice guy and is nothing like a certain bald cretin but sadly nice guys don't always make good managers and while he must be thanked for assembling a squad capable of getting into the premiership unfortunately I don't think he has what it takes to squeeze every last ounce of quality out of them which is sad but unfortunately a fact of life.

If we stay with this management team we'll be in real trouble next season.

Someone talking sense finally!.

[thenodrog]

Tomp that maybe so but there is a massive difference with Rudy & Brown one scores goals the other doesn't. I think this sub highlights the problem with GB if I was a stranger looking in my big question Rudy for Brown why sometimes I think GB makes subs just for effect as there is no logic as to why he is bringing on some players and personally if we went with that logic & started with Brown then Rudy would not have scored the 1st goal and lets be honest how many on here could see Brown bustling through that Bees defence and being so clinical in front of goal? The point is for all his harrying bustling and trying to get defenders to make mistakes he doesn't do what it says on the tin he doesn't score goals and I hate to say it is probably the worst no.9 in the clubs history.

I've already said what I believe was the reason for that and why it made some sense to me. With no Marshall or Conway we were so narrow and after Spearing came on and Cairney and Taylor tucked in that no cross was going to come across the box from wide positions as everything was being lumped forward from deep. Brown is much better at dealing with those and knocking them on and / or down whilst Gestede is undoubtedly better at meeting crosses and generating power with his headers. It didn't work and hindsight is wonderful but surely you could see Bowyers reasoning?

[Stuart]

I disagree Stuart, I think recent performances at Charlton, Sheffield, Liverpool, Watford etc. show that he is getting performances from the players. Sadly, this season we have not been consistent enough and that, combined with a number of individual errors, has meant we haven't got the points we would have hoped for.

I disagree in return though. The personnel now used in these games is because of selections forced upon him and not choices he would make. We have stumbled on a formula in spite of Bowyer and not because of him. People don't like me to keep reminding them but as soon as they are fit again, the wrong players will be back in the line up.

[Rover_Shaun]

Which will arrive first. Bowyers managerial ability or my lottery win?

[AllRoverAsia]

Which will arrive first. Bowyers managerial ability or my lottery win?

Do not hold your breath waiting on Bowyer!

[DE.]

Keep buying those tickets.

[K-Hod]

Thing is, if we keep the squad together, and somehow find some consistency/the ability to defend consistently then we'll do alright next season.

But that's a whole lot of variables, and I've not seen anything to suggest we're capable of doing either consistently.....

[davulsukur]

The game was up a while back. The mini revival run we went on built hopes up but it was always going to be a false dawn.

Looking at the season as a whole we have been way off the pace. A very brief flirtation in the top 6 but in all honesty we've not looked like playoff contenders at all.

The cup has given us something to cheer but it shouldn't be enough to keep Bowyer on (what if we won it though?)

[PeteJD13]

It's the hope that kills you .

I guess the Bowyer situation comes down to your expectations based on our squad.

If you genuinely feel the squad , which Gary has assembled is capable of top 6 , then he's done a good job in assembling that squad of players, but too many times failed to get it tactically right .

If you feel we are not capable of the top 6 then it really comes down to a few things

Player recruitment , lack of spending (embargo was coming , but that happened 3 months ago not 18 months ago ). Managers hands probably been tied through the self preservation board who are being judged on the balance sheets , NOT league position .

Personally I think Bowyer is a top bloke who has the potential to be an ok manager at some point , however circumstances of where we are as a club and crowd expectations make rovers not that club.

We have fallen from grace far too quickly under the ownership of Venkys , far too many decisions which are beyond logic have been made , when ultimately all rovers have ever needed under Venkys is experienced strong leadership in the boardroom and dugout . You'd think after all these years they would have realised this , sadly they have not .

Football is the wrong business to play guinea pigs with , the financial liabilities and implications are so great that clubs can go extinct very quickly , where their heritage and history becomes just a distant memory , where those fortunate enough can remember to tell their grandchildren .

Gary Bowyer has the impossible task , he works for owners who are clueless , a board who have only their own interest at the forefront , whilst a crowd which has halved in just 3 years , who simply no longer the patience to wait around to watch the decline continue .

Personally I think we hsvd underachieved this season .

It's been one of the most boring , non event seasons for a long time . 95% of the time the football has been poor , our tactics poor and the fact we fail to field the same team twice , tells me Bowyer ain't got a clue who his best 11 is . If he don't know that , then little wonder we have made a zero promotion push this season .

Had we had a Manager, rather than a work in progress, I think we would be top 6.

With each day this experiment continues , the need to off load assets to balance the growing losses grows . One thing rovers have not , is time .

Someone said to me last night that Venkys could have been good owners , however when they continue to make the same mistakes , fail to listen or engage with it's paying customer , then that day of them becoming enlightened and doing the right thing is never going to come .

I'm resigned now that Premiership football is a thing of the past and next season will be more about retaining our Championship status .

I've had some awesome memories in the years I've supported our club , from seeing our team promoted , win the league , win the league cup , win the full members cup and play in Europe . Some supporters of other clubs won't witness 10% of that , whilst sadly some of our newer supporters and future supporters will never experience that either .

Spot on Glen sort of sums up how I feel, I have tried to blindly console myself with the thought that this summer we have a chance to get the wage bill under control and stop haemorrhaging cash but I am not holding my breath on that score now tbh. You speak to Balaji what does he make of it ?

[thenodrog]

Thing is, if we keep the squad together, and somehow find some consistency/the ability to defend consistently then we'll do alright next season.

But that's a whole lot of variables, and I've not seen anything to suggest we're capable of doing either consistently.....

From Tuesdays lesson I believe we should concentrate on attitudes and especially those displayed off the ball. Some on here have questioned the player's fitness but imo thats just a blind. In the FA cup the team has been well up for the challenge and full of running and determination. Players have not been resting on their laurels or worse 'hiding' or even worse 'sulking' they have been making themselves available all over the park and easy to pick out by their teammates. Compare that with some of the league matches this season! Now compare it with the likes of Norwich, Derby, Bournemouth , Boro and Brentford! I even commented during the match on Tues that Brentford appeared to have 1 or even 2 more players than us! If we could have transferred our FA cup 'attitude' to the bread and butter Championship then maybe we'd be up there with them. Modern coaching methods / diets etc are OK but top man management puts suchlike in the shade. Just ask a MU fan.

[den]

Usual negative post alert........

If nothing changes over the summer, - I'm meaning on the owners approach and on the manager situation - I can't possibly see how results on the pitch can improve. Even if we don't have to sell anyone, I don't see anything but regression. How any rovers fan think doing nothing is a good idea, beats me.

I can only say what I think.

[K-Hod]

Doing nothing would be a poor idea granted. The only way we'll move forward is if we somehow find some consistency on the pitch, as Michael Appleton said 'this is a football club not a movie production!'.

Never thought I'd be paraphrasing him again!!

[thenodrog]

How odd! I've just realised that I cannot remember one single thing Michael Appleton said! Well done K-Hod.

[rickard]

Doing nothing would be a poor idea granted. The only way we'll move forward is if we somehow find some consistency on the pitch, as Michael Appleton said 'this is a football club not a movie production!'.

Never thought I'd be paraphrasing him again!!

Which makes you wonder why the "owners" hired so many (bald) actors to play the role of the manager...

[K-Hod]

How odd! I've just realised that I cannot remember one single thing Michael Appleton said! Well done K-Hod.

He also said we were 'spineless' against Peterborough when we were 3-0 at HT- he was bang on the money again, shame he was a dreadful manager!!

[OJRovers]

From Tuesdays lesson I believe we should concentrate on attitudes and especially those displayed off the ball. Some on here have questioned the player's fitness but imo thats just a blind. In the FA cup the team has been well up for the challenge and full of running and determination. Players have not been resting on their laurels or worse 'hiding' or even worse 'sulking' they have been making themselves available all over the park and easy to pick out by their teammates. Compare that with some of the league matches this season! Now compare it with the likes of Norwich, Derby, Bournemouth , Boro and Brentford! I even commented during the match on Tues that Brentford appeared to have 1 or even 2 more players than us! If we could have transferred our FA cup 'attitude' to the bread and butter Championship then maybe we'd be up there with them. Modern coaching methods / diets etc are OK but top man management puts suchlike in the shade. Just ask a MU fan.

Spot on. The determination and tenacity of the Brentford players put ours to shame. Its not down to them being multi-million pound world class players, its down to the organisation and motivation by the manager.

Alan Judge being the prime example. Bowyer hardly played him and he didn't look good when he did play. He is now one of the best midfielder in the league this season (only player in the top 10 tackles and assists).

Bowyer doesn't know how to play the high-tempo game that is successful in this league.

That said, Venkys choosing a manager is a scary thought. Bet they have never even seen what the likes of Warburton has done.

[roverstdt]

It is hard to see what is the right direction.

The easy decision would be to sack the board, the manager, and bring people who know their football, and an experienced manager. However, looking at the situation and the structure we have in place it is hard to see that will ever happen.

So the question I ask myself is do I see Bowyer getting things right for next year? Call me a blind optimist but I think there is a small chance, which is the only reason why I would hesitate to sack him now. Summer time will mark the end (In My View) of the Kean, Shebby, and co, mismanagement.

Orr gone, Robinson, Songo'o, Willo, Varney, the only real final horse remaining is Leon Best who we will probably loan out again. However, the wage bill would have gone down considerably. Then the task would be to organise, the defence, and have a stronger spine in the midfield. Those things are achievable, however we will need to sell one two key players to raise funds. One who I wouldn't be too sad to see go would be Grant Hanley. Having had a mix season, I would rather see Duffy, and Killa, or even see us sign Baptiste, to help the defence out. As far as the midfield go why look no further than bringing in Jay Spearing who I feel has had a positive contribution on the team.

Though this is all fantasy at the moment and the reality is that we have fallen from grace after a successful recent history, and now find ourselves in an average mid table season. Disgruntled fans has been the key highlight if anything of this season, but the main thing we should all remember is that instead of living in the past glory days of what we were, we need to look at ourselves and see what we are today. Regardless of our situation, part of the Rovers identity has been, and something I have always love about Rovers is that never say die attitude.

[onlyonejackwalker]

From Tuesdays lesson I believe we should concentrate on attitudes and especially those displayed off the ball. Some on here have questioned the player's fitness but imo thats just a blind. In the FA cup the team has been well up for the challenge and full of running and determination. Players have not been resting on their laurels or worse 'hiding' or even worse 'sulking' they have been making themselves available all over the park and easy to pick out by their teammates. Compare that with some of the league matches this season! Now compare it with the likes of Norwich, Derby, Bournemouth , Boro and Brentford! I even commented during the match on Tues that Brentford appeared to have 1 or even 2 more players than us! If we could have transferred our FA cup 'attitude' to the bread and butter Championship then maybe we'd be up there with them. Modern coaching methods / diets etc are OK but top man management puts suchlike in the shade. Just ask a MU fan.

Well said. Begs the question why our manager cannot extract the extra few percent week in week out and why attitudes alter game by game.

Which leads me on nicely to 'Top Man Management' - Written in black and white in your own words - Your opinion of Bowyer seems to sway somewhat dependant on form. Clearly we are not benefitting from top man management as you have highlighted the problems faced. Stick or twist?

Usual negative post alert........

If nothing changes over the summer, - I'm meaning on the owners approach and on the manager situation - I can't possibly see how results on the pitch can improve. Even if we don't have to sell anyone, I don't see anything but regression. How any rovers fan think doing nothing is a good idea, beats me.

I can only say what I think.

And I am glad you do. For some strange reason being accurate and realistic is the new negative. We don't need a nice guy we need a top manager. Your view has concurred with mine and remained consistent for a long time over a number of issues and running eighteen months on many now agree.

If we don't change anything then nothing will change. Simple as that, however much others gloss over the issues we face.

[Rover_Shaun]

I have a lawn mower. The blade snapped in two 18 months ago. It doesn't cut the grass now but I still regularly wheel it over my lawn, as I am afraid that if I buy a new one it will break also.

[gumboots]

But you surely trust yourself to buy a decent new one and get appropriate guarantees whereas nobody trusts those who'd appoint a new manager to do it correctly and therein lies our problem