[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Amo]

There is no justifiable case for keeping Bowyer as manager. Things haven't progressed on the pitch, they've stagnated if anything. We were an inconsistent midtable side last season, and we're an inconsistent midtable side this season. 100 odd games in charge, and however many players signed, and the manager's still no closer to his best 11 or cutting out those defensive lapses. The FA Cup run has been a welcome distraction from our faltering league campaign, but also papering over the cracks. Some of Bowyer's fans believe that given another 2, 3 ...4... 5 seasons in charge we could eventually work our way up to a promotion push. Probably in the same way Derby thought it was worth playing the long game with Nigel Clough. Next thing you know, they appoint a proven manager and in no time at all they're promotion contenders two seasons running. For every year Rovers are out of the top flight, the less chance they have of going back up.

[gumboots]

There is no justifiable case for keeping Bowyer as manager. Things haven't progressed on the pitch, they've stagnated if anything. We were an inconsistent midtable side last season, and we're an inconsistent midtable side this season. 100 odd games in charge, and however many players signed, and the manager's still no closer to his best 11 or cutting out those defensive lapses. The FA Cup run has been a welcome distraction from our faltering league campaign, but also papering over the cracks. Some of Bowyer's fans believe that given another 2, 3 ...4... 5 seasons in charge we could eventually work our way up to a promotion push. Probably in the same way Derby thought it was worth playing the long game with Nigel Clough. Next thing you know, they appoint a proven manager and in no time at all they're promotion contenders two seasons running. For every year Rovers are out of the top flight, the less chance they have of going back up.

I wouldn't disagree but see my earlier post. It always comes down to this. Who would sack him! Who would appoint a replacement? Note I don't ask who'd apply - it's not that I think were such a joke that nobody of any quality would. But would they be considered? Who knows? Would they be appointed? Probably not. Would we end up with a decent manager. Perhaps. Would we get someone who could possibly get us promotion? Probably not. It's a difficult situation we find ourselves in where the one person, mrs desai, who could begin to sort out the club, blatantly hasn't a clue where to begin and doesn't know or care enough to find someone to oversee the club who does.

[Rover_Shaun]

But you surely trust yourself to buy a decent new one

And I'm sure Venkys think they can trust someone to find a decent one too

So just because we can't trust Venkies to pick their own nose and the manager is an alleged good egg he should be given all the slack in the world off the fanbase?

I am convinced he thinks he's doing a good job and only the fans can tell him otherwise.

[tomphil]

Tomp that maybe so but there is a massive difference with Rudy & Brown one scores goals the other doesn't. I think this sub highlights the problem with GB if I was a stranger looking in my big question Rudy for Brown why sometimes I think GB makes subs just for effect as there is no logic as to why he is bringing on some players and personally if we went with that logic & started with Brown then Rudy would not have scored the 1st goal and lets be honest how many on here could see Brown bustling through that Bees defence and being so clinical in front of goal? The point is for all his harrying bustling and trying to get defenders to make mistakes he doesn't do what it says on the tin he doesn't score goals and I hate to say it is probably the worst no.9 in the clubs history.

Kamy I doubt it would get so ferocious but to expect people to sit there and do nothing is asking a lot and I agree with you Gary is a genuinely nice guy and is nothing like a certain bald cretin but sadly nice guys don't always make good managers and while he must be thanked for assembling a squad capable of getting into the premiership unfortunately I don't think he has what it takes to squeeze every last ounce of quality out of them which is sad but unfortunately a fact of life.

Someone talking sense finally!.

Correct one scores goals and one doesn't even have a shot on goal in him BUT Rhodes scores when Brown plays but tends to be the one having to do the donkey work for half assed Rudy when they are together and tends not to score. To get the best out of the team it seems to be one or the other. To get the best out of our best finisher would be the way most managers would go rather than the easy option of tailoring everything to the big man up front. I simply refuse to believe a decent manager and coaching set up couldn't come up with a way to suit Rudy and Rhodes together, sadly that doesn't apply at the min.

[RevidgeBlue]

From Tuesdays lesson I believe we should concentrate on attitudes and especially those displayed off the ball. Some on here have questioned the player's fitness but imo thats just a blind. In the FA cup the team has been well up for the challenge and full of running and determination. Players have not been resting on their laurels or worse 'hiding' or even worse 'sulking' they have been making themselves available all over the park and easy to pick out by their teammates. Compare that with some of the league matches this season! Now compare it with the likes of Norwich, Derby, Bournemouth , Boro and Brentford! I even commented during the match on Tues that Brentford appeared to have 1 or even 2 more players than us! If we could have transferred our FA cup 'attitude' to the bread and butter Championship then maybe we'd be up there with them. Modern coaching methods / diets etc are OK but top man management puts suchlike in the shade. Just ask a MU fan.

Good post Gordon. In the first half of the season I also commented after many games that we failed to come out of the dressing room until the second half by which time we were invariably drawing 0-0 or chasing the game. Then compare all of the above to how close we were to the play offs before Tuesday's game, despite being so desperately poor all season and it certainly reinforces my belief that GB has been in charge of a squad for the last two seasons that should certainly have been capable of making the play offs. And would have done with some ease if GB had been able to instill the same sort of work ethic ino our players as Warburton clearly has in his.

It's an old cliché that you've quoted many times but hard work costs nowt. As it is, at best I can see nothing changing if GB remains in charge. For the week to week marathon slog that is the Championship most of the team just don't seem up for it enough under GB. This season they've performed often enough to keep us out of trouble but on any given afternoon it doesn't seem to matter enough if we win or lose or concede a lead or don't turn up until half time or overall if the season is a dead rubber by the beginning to middle of February.

[gumboots]

just because we can't trust Venkies to pick their own nose and the manager is an alleged good egg he should be given all the slack in the world off the fanbase?

Where did I say that? All I said is it's a difficult situation because it won't make any difference what we do. She won't listen and he probably won't walk. Well get a bad press again just when people were starting to think we are actually not the monsters Kean et al portrayed us as and bowyer does not really deserve the level of grief it might take to get any response from anyone who matters. You can try it, but I don't see any of us, even if it were all 10000 fans in the ground, getting any response from she who owns us. That's why it's a hard situation and one I don't know the solution to. In every other club owners have ambition or they listen to their fans eventually. Even the worst of owners. Ours aren't there and don't care.

[tomphil]

Good post Gordon. In the first half of the season I also commented after many games that we failed to come out of the dressing room until the second half by which time we were invariably drawing 0-0 or chasing the game. Then compare all of the above to how close we were to the play offs before Tuesday's game, despite being so desperately poor all season and it certainly reinforces my belief that GB has been in charge of a squad for the last two seasons that should certainly have been capable of making the play offs. And would have done with some ease if GB had been able to instill the same sort of work ethic ino our players as Warburton clearly has in his.

It's an old cliché that you've quoted many times but hard work costs nowt. As it is, at best I can see nothing changing if GB remains in charge. For the week to week marathon slog that is the Championship most of the team just don't seem up for it enough under GB. This season they've performed often enough to keep us out of trouble but on any given afternoon it doesn't seem to matter enough if we win or lose or concede a lead or don't turn up until half time or overall if the season is a dead rubber by the beginning to middle of February.

Also to do this we need to apply a little bit more pass and move in at least a few areas of the pitch. A lot of our teams graft and energy is expended chasing aimless long punts then chasing back when it immediately comes back. Also with standing off and often playing deep our lads spend time chasing shadows and running side to side whilst the oppo dominate us in midfield, particularly in away games.

We've shown we can press teams for a whole game and win the ball back in their half but it only happens now and again or for the most 2 games on the bounce. It's just not GB's preferred style, either that or he just can't get them to do it on a match to match basis. The style must change OR go down the Burnley route and master that style. What we've had most of the season is something somewhere in between. I'm not on about entertainment I'm on about effect.

[Gav]

And I'm sure Venkys think they can trust someone to find a decent one too

So just because we can't trust Venkies to pick their own nose and the manager is an alleged good egg he should be given all the slack in the world off the fanbase?

I am convinced he thinks he's doing a good job and only the fans can tell him otherwise.

He won't hear your voice will he? You don't go.....

But if he reads your posts on a regular basis that might make him sod off, it's certainly working on me...

[Gav]

There is no justifiable case for keeping Bowyer as manager.

King Rat

Michael Appleton

Henning Berg

Jerome Anderson

Shebby Singh

All reasons why we'd be better off sticking with Bowyer for now. I'd rather be mid table than have those types involved again.

[Andyblue2]

Berg is doing ok at Legia

[Gav]

Berg is doing ok at Legia

I don't support Legia, do you?

[Rover_Shaun]

He won't hear your voice will he? You don't go.....

But if he reads your posts on a regular basis that might make him sod off, it's certainly working on me...

Great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out

As soon as I posted it I knew someone would make that predictable bleat. You were 2/1 joint 2nd favourite

[AllRoverAsia]

King Rat

Michael Appleton

Henning Berg

Jerome Anderson

Shebby Singh

All reasons why we'd be better off sticking with Bowyer for now. I'd rather be mid table than have those types involved again.

Henning gets a bad rap but was never ever like KR, JA or Shyster. Appleton too for that matter. Henning was wrong place wrong time but not complicit in Rovers downfall.

[Rover_Shaun]

Where did I say that? All I said is it's a difficult situation because it won't make any difference what we do. She won't listen and he probably won't walk. Well get a bad press again just when people were starting to think we are actually not the monsters Kean et al portrayed us as and bowyer does not really deserve the level of grief it might take to get any response from anyone who matters. You can try it, but I don't see any of us, even if it were all 10000 fans in the ground, getting any response from she who owns us. That's why it's a hard situation and one I don't know the solution to. In every other club owners have ambition or they listen to their fans eventually. Even the worst of owners. Ours aren't there and don't care.

It was in order to allow him the opportunity to prove what a nice man he is (the only defence people have left in his favour) by letting him know it was time to walk away and not for the owners benefit.......like they even know what goes on.

[tomphil]

Pretty sure Berg could have done ok if he was working under exactly the same conditions as Bowyer. Not sure he'd have been able to identify the young British players GB has brought in but maybe he could have squeezed a bit more out of the ones available and built from there.

[Rover_Shaun]

He may have identified more consistent young english players rather than the "once in a preston guild" lads he recruited

[Gav]

As soon as I posted it I knew someone would make that predictable bleat.

That should tell you something...

Henning gets a bad rap but was never ever like KR, JA or Shyster. Appleton too for that matter. Henning was wrong place wrong time but not complicit in Rovers downfall.

You're right of course ARA, but it's a very real possability that the 2 shysters will be involved again and cheap easy manager appointed, like Berg and Appleton.

No thanks, Bowyer all day long for me.

[Rover_Shaun]

I know Venkys have shown us new levels of stupidity (greater even than mine....before anyone says) but does anyone really think Shabby and the Tantric Dancer would be involved again? That would be Chaddyesque mind changing considering how much they got burnt by them.

that leaves us with Shaw.....gulp!

But we are going down eventally under Bowyer so there's not much left to lose....imo.

[adsfortheblues]

Rovers and Venkys means no promotion chances. Think the manager is pretty irrelevant.

[arbitro]

He also said we were 'spineless' against Peterborough when we were 3-0 at HT- he was bang on the money again, shame he was a dreadful manager!!

He also said the place needed excorcising.

[Gav]

I know Venkys have shown us new levels of stupidity (greater even than mine....before anyone says) but does anyone really think Shabby and the Tantric Dancer would be involved again? That would be Chaddyesque mind changing considering how much they got burnt by them.

that leaves us with Shaw.....gulp!

But we are going down eventally under Bowyer so there's not much left to lose....imo.

That fat slimmey agent from down south has been involved in the last 12 months, that's a fact.

We're not going down under Bowyer at all, but you don't go so your can be excused fr not seeing the bigger picture.

[ABBEY]

I know Venkys have shown us new levels of stupidity (greater even than mine....before anyone says) but does anyone really think Shabby and the Tantric Dancer would be involved again? That would be Chaddyesque mind changing considering how much they got burnt by them.

that leaves us with Shaw.....gulp!

But we are going down eventally under Bowyer so there's not much left to lose....imo.

dark forces at large.

[Mike Graham]

Rovers and Venkys means no promotion chances. Think the manager is pretty irrelevant.

Yep, and the manager is not only irrelevant he is useless.

[Rover_Shaun]

We're not going down under Bowyer at all, but you don't go so your can be excused fr not seeing the bigger picture.

Better players sold. No ability to get that bit extra out of them, regressing in the table. I'd say 2 more seasons and he'll take us down. But you soon won't live in the area anymore and you will then be even more excused from misreading the mood.

You may go but its time to see.

[Amo]

I wouldn't disagree but see my earlier post. It always comes down to this. Who would sack him! Who would appoint a replacement? Note I don't ask who'd apply - it's not that I think were such a joke that nobody of any quality would. But would they be considered? Who knows? Would they be appointed? Probably not. Would we end up with a decent manager. Perhaps. Would we get someone who could possibly get us promotion? Probably not. It's a difficult situation we find ourselves in where the one person, mrs desai, who could begin to sort out the club, blatantly hasn't a clue where to begin and doesn't know or care enough to find someone to oversee the club who does.

All valid points, Gumboots. What's the alternative? Bumble along with Bowyer for another 12 months?