[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Amo]

Shameful? Really?? How you can sit 300 miles away in Hampshire (with your 14,000 posts under your belt) and slag off someone who invests more time than almost anyone else to watch the blue and white halves in all their guises - Under 18s, Under 21s, 1st team, home and away - is totally beyond me.

I wondered how long it would take you to chirp up, and you didn't disappoint. Do you only come on here to get into slanging matches or do you have opinions on football, too?

Parson's commitment to Rovers isn't under attack. It's his blinkered views on the manager I'm calling into question.

[pk1875]

Abbey, the football has been nowhere near as poor as people make out. If it was as poor as that we would be sitting alongside Blackpool and Wigan rather than comfortably situated as we are. Heaven knows I've seen far worse and folk didn't want to hound the manager out of a job or wish injuries on players to keep them out of the side - that seems to be a post Premier League fad. The manager and coaching staff are more than capable to keeping this club viable in the Championship and putting long term foundations in place at the Academy and Under-21 level. It will take time, of that there is no doubt, but I honestly don't feel the same sense of depression I did when Kean, Ince or Jim Iley were at the helm. In many ways I liken Bowyer to Bob Saxton's period in charge. Not always a bed of roses but the club didn't drop into the Third Division - admittedly we had a scare or two - and had some seasons of challenging for promotion.

But we don't have time to build slowly, whilst we stay in the championship we can't afford to even run the academy as we know it.

[chaddyrovers]

Wigan are in the bottom 3 and they have spend around 8/9 million pounds this season on players.

Mackay still hasn't won a game at home as Wigan Manager.

Blackpool were going down as soon as the Chairman and Riga disagree over transfers and lack of signings. Clark had no chance in keeping them up.

I

But we don't have time to build slowly, whilst we stay in the championship we can't afford to even run the academy as we know it.

The owners keep putting money in to fund the club and academy. The owners did put the money in to get us Category 1 status.

[AllRoverAsia]

If we stick with Bowyer we certainly won't be going down to League One so no worries there in the future - distant or otherwise.

You have no way of knowing that apart from blind faith and a Bowyer love in.

Wigan are in the bottom 3 and they have spend around 8/9 million pounds this season on players.

Mackay still hasn't won a game at home as Wigan Manager.

Blackpool were going down as soon as the Chairman and Riga disagree over transfers and lack of signings. Clark had no chance in keeping them up.

I

The owners keep putting money in to fund the club and academy. The owners did put the money in to get us Category 1 status.

Putting as in giving? give me a break. Actually the owners are creating an ever increasing debt - let's see who's door gets knocked on if the bad tmes come.

[Athlete]

You have no way of knowing that apart from blind faith and a Bowyer love in.

Putting as in giving? give me a break. Actually the owners are creating an ever increasing debt - let's see who's door gets knocked on if the bad tmes come.

It won't be the owners that's for sure as they've been shrewd how they've structured the debts... See the championship debts thread

[Andyblue2]

The owners did put the money in to get us Category 1 status.

I though we had a quality academy and facilities before they turned up. In fact, since they arrived there has been nobody come through into the first team, whereas we used to have a decent pipeline of good kids. Chaddy you've more faces than Big Ben.

[Rover_Shaun]

It's a good attemp and I'm sure some people will fall for it Shaun.....

I've said my piece and I don't want to bore fellow posters anymore.

You're just a good old bean, a Rover through and through, let's leave it at that.

Well I'll continue to keep my heart on my sleeve, you keep on ignoring me and the world (mine) will be a far better place.

On topic. Parson is very much entitled to his opinion. It all depends on how much time you think we have before real irreparable damage is done. If this was 1986 again, with none life threatening debt levels, then letting Bowyer drift along would be totally acceptable.

[Parsonblue]

But we don't have time to build slowly, whilst we stay in the championship we can't afford to even run the academy as we know it.

The owners have invested heavily in the Academy as it is something they can do without impacting on FFP. There are many clubs who run very successful academies on limited income.

[Rover_Shaun]

But is other clubs academies a multi-acred Ribble valley complex with several pitches, buildings, accommodation and indoor pitches to staff, heat and maintain?

The cost of running Brochole for a month must be mind boggling..........then the player output isn't even given a chance. Even by it's ex-champion.

Downsizing the operation may be needed in the future?

[martonrover]

Abbey, the football has been nowhere near as poor as people make out. If it was as poor as that we would be sitting alongside Blackpool and Wigan rather than comfortably situated as we are. Heaven knows I've seen far worse and folk didn't want to hound the manager out of a job or wish injuries on players to keep them out of the side - that seems to be a post Premier League fad. The manager and coaching staff are more than capable to keeping this club viable in the Championship and putting long term foundations in place at the Academy and Under-21 level. It will take time, of that there is no doubt, but I honestly don't feel the same sense of depression I did when Kean, Ince or Jim Iley were at the helm. In many ways I liken Bowyer to Bob Saxton's period in charge. Not always a bed of roses but the club didn't drop into the Third Division - admittedly we had a scare or two - and had some seasons of challenging for promotion.

Many of the matches at Ewood have been dire and it's been a case of grinding out results rather than playing good football.

I agree that simply in terms of results and league position things could be a great deal worse.

I disagree that there is no danger of relegation under Bowyer, and it is a far more likely outcome than promotion at some point in my opinion.

This isn't the Saxton era when the club was thriftily run and managed.

We are still losing vast amounts of money and there is still no visible long term strategy in place in terms of recruitment for the first team.

The style of play and poor entertainment value alone is sure to cost a few thousand more season ticket holders this Summer.

The future isn't bright I'm afraid.

[Stuart]

The owners have invested heavily in the Academy as it is something they can do without impacting on FFP. There are many clubs who run very successful academies on limited income.

So while the rest of us what to at least be able to compete with Bumley your aim is still for us to compete with Crewe?

How about the next generation of supporters and their children? Should we not be looking to have a club that they will want to support?

You seem to be quite happy heading down the 5-6k supporter route - "been there before, can do it again" - but why should that be the aim? With the current manager and approach that is exactly where we are heading. It's the same with this mb. Posters are dropping off, not because of negativity, that has always generated debate, it's because no matter what anyone says or thinks - or even does - the owners are not listening and the board can't act. So what's the point. They don't care so maybe fans will wait until they have gone - by which time there might be nothing left to come back to. I'll be honest, right now the ONLY reason that I keep going us because of friends and family who go, and it's time we have together, irrespective of the football or results.

Remember too that, without Jack's ideology and money, we may well be where fellow founder members Accrington Stanley are, so any ideas that it was 20-odd years before we "last" bounced back - well after the last two years of 'stability' this time might actually be never. You might be perfectly comfortable with that but our great grand children will be supporting Manchester United or Liverpool. And there will be nothing we can do about it.

[ABBEY]

Abbey, the football has been nowhere near as poor as people make out. If it was as poor as that we would be sitting alongside Blackpool and Wigan rather than comfortably situated as we are. Heaven knows I've seen far worse and folk didn't want to hound the manager out of a job or wish injuries on players to keep them out of the side - that seems to be a post Premier League fad. The manager and coaching staff are more than capable to keeping this club viable in the Championship and putting long term foundations in place at the Academy and Under-21 level. It will take time, of that there is no doubt, but I honestly don't feel the same sense of depression I did when Kean, Ince or Jim Iley were at the helm. In many ways I liken Bowyer to Bob Saxton's period in charge. Not always a bed of roses but the club didn't drop into the Third Division - admittedly we had a scare or two - and had some seasons of challenging for promotion.

ER yes it is , its absolute dire! Your mate is driving people away . I ask the question again , what makes you so sure we shouldn't worry?

Wigan are in the bottom 3 and they have spend around 8/9 million pounds this season on players.

Mackay still hasn't won a game at home as Wigan Manager.

Blackpool were going down as soon as the Chairman and Riga disagree over transfers and lack of signings. Clark had no chance in keeping them up.

I

The owners keep putting money in to fund the club and academy. The owners did put the money in to get us Category 1 status.

So you are not only on the bowyer bus again but you are behind the V's . Speaks volumes .

[pk1875]

The owners have invested heavily in the Academy as it is something they can do without impacting on FFP. There are many clubs who run very successful academies on limited income.

Money from ticket sales does not even cover the running cost of the academy, let alone the club

[Parsonblue]

So while the rest of us what to at least be able to compete with Bumley your aim is still for us to compete with Crewe?

How about the next generation of supporters and their children? Should we not be looking to have a club that they will want to support?

You seem to be quite happy heading down the 5-6k supporter route - "been there before, can do it again" - but why should that be the aim? With the current manager and approach that is exactly where we are heading. It's the same with this mb. Posters are dropping off, not because of negativity, that has always generated debate, it's because no matter what anyone says or thinks - or even does - the owners are not listening and the board can't act. So what's the point. They don't care so maybe fans will wait until they have gone - by which time there might be nothing left to come back to. I'll be honest, right now the ONLY reason that I keep going us because of friends and family who go, and it's time we have together, irrespective of the football or results.

Remember too that, without Jack's ideology and money, we may well be where fellow founder members Accrington Stanley are, so any ideas that it was 20-odd years before we "last" bounced back - well after the last two years of 'stability' this time might actually be never. You might be perfectly comfortable with that but our great grand children will be supporting Manchester United or Liverpool. And there will be nothing we can do about it.

I'm not sure how stating that clubs run Academies on limited incomes equates to wanting to compete with Crewe rather than Burnley. However, as you mention it I think Crewe's youth structure has probably been one of the most successful in the country over the past 20 years or so.

There seems to be a school of thought that the Rovers have some divine right to Premier League football and that Bowyer is denying us of our divine right to that level. No club - as so many have found in the past and will do again in the future - has a divine right to be in the top flight. If you make mistakes and crass decisions - as our owners did, or were led into doing by others with their own agendas - then it usually results in relegation. Occasionally, you can get back quickly but more often than not it takes longer - Ipswich, Derby & Forest being just three examples. No manager can guarantee success. If Bowyer was sacked and a new man arrives and ends up in mid-table is he sacked? Where does it end? For the first time since Venky's took over the club I actually think they are on the right track in looking for a slow, long term recovery that is built on a solid foundation. Of course it is reliant on them continuing to back the club financially but I've yet to see anything that suggests they won't. One suspects that pride may well dictate that they stick around, that and wanting to get some sort of return on their investment which if they walk away now they would take a huge financial hit.

If you are saying that the people of Blackburn are only interested in following a successful team and abandon the club when times are tough - which you seem to imply with the 5 to 6K supporters - you'd get no argument from me. As for the next generation of supporters are you suggesting that unless clubs are in the Premier League then youngsters won't follow their local club? I would agree that TV makes it easier to become a supporter of a Chelsea, City, Utd, etc. but that has been the case in the past.

The history of the Rovers shows that when times are tough the crowds drop off alarmingly.

I admit Stuart, that my ideas of sticking with a club through good times and bad times is clearly old fashioned but I'm too long in the tooth now to change my viewpoint on that.

In all honesty Stuart, I don't believe that there is a quick solution to our woes and that it will be a long haul back to be where we all want to be.

[Amo]

I admit Stuart, that my ideas of sticking with a club through good times and bad times is clearly old fashioned but I'm too long in the tooth now to change my viewpoint on that.

There he goes with the super-fan stuff again. Maybe some fans don't want to bend over and accept the bad times because they're pals with the guy in charge?

[Mike Graham]

Money from ticket sales does not even cover the running cost of the academy, let alone the club

The V's fund the Academy to the tune of £2M per year. They want it to be self funding (player sales.....and yes this makes good economic sense) but have only agreed to fund until the end of 2016.

Goodness knows what happens next.

Sorry but I cannot agree with Amo's point about Parsonblue; he is a guy who is 100% committed to Rovers and wears that on his sleeve, I may disagree with PB re GB but I have a dammed lot of respect for the guy.

[Parsonblue]

There he goes with the super-fan stuff again. Maybe some fans don't want to bend over and accept the bad times because they're pals with the guy in charge?

You really are quite incapable of understanding another point of view aren't you. Firstly, I don't know the manager, met him a time or two, but hardly pals? I accept that to you anybody who actually watches the Rovers must be a super-fan, but believe it or not there are many, like myself, who actually enjoy following the Rovers up and down the country supporting our local club. You ought to try it sometime.

[K-Hod]

I'm not sure how stating that clubs run Academies on limited incomes equates to wanting to compete with Crewe rather than Burnley. However, as you mention it I think Crewe's youth structure has probably been one of the most successful in the country over the past 20 years or so.

There seems to be a school of thought that the Rovers have some divine right to Premier League football and that Bowyer is denying us of our divine right to that level. No club - as so many have found in the past and will do again in the future - has a divine right to be in the top flight. If you make mistakes and crass decisions - as our owners did, or were led into doing by others with their own agendas - then it usually results in relegation. Occasionally, you can get back quickly but more often than not it takes longer - Ipswich, Derby & Forest being just three examples. No manager can guarantee success. If Bowyer was sacked and a new man arrives and ends up in mid-table is he sacked? Where does it end? For the first time since Venky's took over the club I actually think they are on the right track in looking for a slow, long term recovery that is built on a solid foundation. Of course it is reliant on them continuing to back the club financially but I've yet to see anything that suggests they won't. One suspects that pride may well dictate that they stick around, that and wanting to get some sort of return on their investment which if they walk away now they would take a huge financial hit.

If you are saying that the people of Blackburn are only interested in following a successful team and abandon the club when times are tough - which you seem to imply with the 5 to 6K supporters - you'd get no argument from me. As for the next generation of supporters are you suggesting that unless clubs are in the Premier League then youngsters won't follow their local club? I would agree that TV makes it easier to become a supporter of a Chelsea, City, Utd, etc. but that has been the case in the past.

The history of the Rovers shows that when times are tough the crowds drop off alarmingly.

I admit Stuart, that my ideas of sticking with a club through good times and bad times is clearly old fashioned but I'm too long in the tooth now to change my viewpoint on that.

In all honesty Stuart, I don't believe that there is a quick solution to our woes and that it will be a long haul back to be where we all want to be.

Re the bit in bold, I think you're missing the point, or deliberately ignoring it. Our decline was man made and because of the errors of our owners, the best way to correct the finances is to get promoted back to the PL. When it seems like our manager is not doing everything he can to make that happen then it's bound to cause frustration, it's as simple as that.

We have no divine right to be anywhere, but we were holding our own in the PL until this lot came along.

[AllRoverAsia]

Re the bit in bold, I think you're missing the point, or deliberately ignoring it. Our decline was man made and because of the errors of our owners, the best way to correct the finances is to get promoted back to the PL. When it seems like our manager is not doing everything he can to make that happen then it's bound to cause frustration, it's as simple as that.

We have no divine right to be anywhere, but we were holding our own in the PL until this lot came along.

Spot on K-Hod

[DE.]

Re the bit in bold, I think you're missing the point, or deliberately ignoring it. Our decline was man made and because of the errors of our owners, the best way to correct the finances is to get promoted back to the PL. When it seems like our manager is not doing everything he can to make that happen then it's bound to cause frustration, it's as simple as that.

We have no divine right to be anywhere, but we were holding our own in the PL until this lot came along.

Indeed so. It's easier to paint those disgruntled as delusional fools than accept that all they really want is a team that looks competitive and doesn't bore spectators to tears.

[Andyblue2]

Indeed so. It's easier to paint those disgruntled as delusional fools than accept that all they really want is a team that looks competitive and doesn't bore spectators to tears.

I'd call PB, Chaddy and the like sanctimonious, not delusional. I actually think they understand the other argument and in secret probably agree with it.

[47er]

Parson---Crewe has indeed had a great youth structure, but who has it benefitted?

Anyone but Crewe surely?

The only benefit Crewe has had is that its been able to exist, albeit in the lower leagues.

Is that what you want for Rovers?

You will see crowds of 6000 or less then and Blackburn youngsters will grow up supporting someone else.

[den]

Parson - you and others argue this point-

"Of course it is reliant on them continuing to back the club financially but I've yet to see anything that suggests they won't."

If they are actually putting their own money in, why did we lose £42m last year and why is total debt around £90m?

[Dortmund Rover 32]

For me its a simple case of thanks Gary but we feel we need a change to achieve promotion. Rovers should already be talking to mark Warburton or Paul lambert. Those 2 are the stand out candidates imo

[Amo]

You really are quite incapable of understanding another point of view aren't you. Firstly, I don't know the manager, met him a time or two, but hardly pals? I accept that to you anybody who actually watches the Rovers must be a super-fan, but believe it or not there are many, like myself, who actually enjoy following the Rovers up and down the country supporting our local club. You ought to try it sometime.

It doesn't matter how much of a diehard fan you are, Parson. If you're talking bull****, you're talking bull****.