[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Blue blood]

Football's a matter of opinions (which I love) but to me this debate is simple:

Does anyone think we'll go up with Bowyer - 100% or near as would say no

Would a more experienced/suitable manager do better (ignoring the chances of getting them) - again a bit more controversy but probably 90% would say yes

Is promotion the only way to solve the huge debt problem - 100% yes

If these are the facts, what possible reason is there for keeping Bowyer? We need to go up, we won't with him in charge, so a change has to be made. Arguments that we'd get someone worse changes nothing, we're stuffed if we stick with him, if we don't we may still be stuffed but at least there is a chance we'll go up. A bit like being on the 4th story of a burning building by a window: you've two options. Stay in the building and die for certain, or jump out. Still a chance you won't make it but there's a chance you will survive.

Stay as we are and it's guaranteed to look very messy within a couple of years.

[tomphil]

If he's in a position to give his best man one of the top jobs I'd say his working conditions are pretty darn good for him.

Plus employing his dad as a scout and another pal as head of recruitment or whatever they call it.......

[DE.]

In some ways I can see some merit to the argument Bowyer has done a decent job.

When you look at where he's come from - youth/reserve team coach - overall he's probably done better than we could have reasonably expected. Regardless of the squad he's inherited/built or the relative stability he's worked under in comparison to other managers, he's done OK in his first ever job as first team manager.

Unfortunately, OK isn't really good enough and his lack of experience means he has some serious flaws which are impacting our ability to progress in this division. Bowyer is often tactically out-thought, cannot get a consistent run going, chops and changes the side too often, and relies on certain players far more than he should. His judgement on players overall can be considered good, but his judgement on their impact on the pitch and best use on match day is dubious. I'm also not convinced he can motivate the team well enough for the bread-and-butter matches we face in the Championship. Our performances and results against the better teams in this league, especially, is poor. The players do not seem to believe they can beat these teams, and it's up to the manager to instill that confidence in them.

Does Bowyer have the potential to be a good manager? IMO, he's shown enough here to suggest he does. However, at our level and with our need to get back into the PL we can't afford to suffer whilst he deals with what is undoubtedly a very steep learning curve. Next season will be much harder as we're likely to have a weaker squad, so it seems to me we need a new, experienced manager urgently if we are to have any hope of getting into the playoffs or potentially even surviving in this division. It's hard to argue Bowyer has improved as a manager this season, and if this is his limit or his progress is going to be slow going forward, we may be in serious trouble before we find out whether or not he could make it as a good manager.

[Gav]

The arguement was not what HE has spent but the claim was what WE have spent and that Souness had bigger recources to get us out of this league.

Sign him or not Bowyer has an £8m striker on his books and £8m worth of other talent in his squad and has delivered regression.

Spurious claims are used in Bowyers defence but when cold hard facts are displayed to stay those assertions they are dismissed in a 'flat earth society' kind of why

Man City's manager will lose his job for (in the opinion of his owners) not using the talent at his disposal effectively. Whether he signed them or not will not matter one iota to Sheik Mansour.

Bowyer has not delivered regression at all, the season isn't over yet and we're in the quarter finals of The FA Cup, so thats bunkum.

Did you go under Berg or Appleton? the footballing side of things is 100% better than when those 2 were in charge, and people seem to forget that in the pursuit of relatively instant success.

Now I'm not a massive Bowyer fan, but this constant chipping away at his record and attempts to discredit him, paint him as the bad guy is boring, especially when it comes from someone who never steps foot into the ground, never watches us live and you’re not alone in this crusade.

But carry on, some seem to like it.

[rickard]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions that Venkys have had from the start; is that it takes a young manager to get the best out of young players. I would think that it might be more difficult to the respect needed if you are a young manager. An older, more experienced manager would probably not end up in a situation where he's too much of a friend of the players to get respected. As some of you have written, I cannot really see Bowyer scream and shout at the players to fire them up when needed.

[Rover_Shaun]

Boring or not someones playing Bowyers Violin.............and he's a professional sportsman :/

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/11869944.Adam_Henley_admits_Blackburn_Rovers_are_running_on_empty_but_wants_final_push/?ref=mac

The lads just forced his way into the team after a long spell in the wilderness and has just been called up for his country. He should be ready to run through walls fuelled by pride and adrenalin not harping on for an afternoon nap and banging his managers defeatist drum despite the first XI against Brentford being arguably full strength based on form.

It's a worrying mindset

[chaddyrovers]

So you are not only on the bowyer bus again but you are behind the V's . Speaks volumes .

When did I say I back the owners???

I never said that.

Was just pointing out that the owners have spend money on the academy and get Rovers category 1 status.

[ABBEY]

Boring or not someones playing Bowyers Violin.............and he's a professional sportsman :/

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/11869944.Adam_Henley_admits_Blackburn_Rovers_are_running_on_empty_but_wants_final_push/?ref=mac

The lads just forced his way into the team after a long spell in the wilderness and has just been called up for his country. He should be ready to run through walls fuelled by pride and adrenalin not harping on for an afternoon nap and banging his managers defeatist drum despite the first XI against Brentford being arguably full strength based on form.

It's a worrying mindset

running on empty grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Andyblue2]

"we're humans, not machines....." WTF????? He's only played about 16 games this season......

The club is poisonous from top to bottom....BOWYER OUT!

[ABBEY]

crazy ain't it.

I would hate Henley to lose his job and have to find a real job with real hours.

[roverzee]

The sad fact is that anyone from the top to the bottom of BRFC could say absolutely anything in any interview whatsoever, and the same group of people on here will use it to attack the individual and the football club. It's where this place is.

[1864roverite]

The real fact of the matter is this.

A proper manager would walk this league with the players we have at our disposal.

Its about getting the best out of them. GB doesn't do that it is clear to see.

There isn't one club that has a striker who will outdo Gestede or Rhodes as a twosome YET we are far behind.

There isn't one club that has a Cairney, a Marshall or King, yet GB doesn't seem to able to get the best out of them.

Looking at the defence, a manager would instill a defensive culture with basic defensive knowledge, GB doesn't seem to able to grasp this.

GB doesn't appear to able to make a positive where subs are concerned. Yes, we have had the odd success but overall its been a bloody mess from the bench.

Look at the points we have frittered away. Its been consistent over 2 seasons. Its been a costly exercise. I thank him from the bottom of my blue and white heart for what he has done but it is now time to revert back to the youth set up and player development.

[RevidgeBlue]

If we stick with Bowyer we certainly won't be going down to League One so no worries there in the future - distant or otherwise.

I honestly don't know how you can say that Parson. GB was allowed to keep all his best players in the summer by the owners, and has failed miserably imo.

If the FFP regulations force a sale of the better players in the summer I wouldn't have thought there'd be any sort of guarantee as to our safety with GB in charge.

Boring or not someones playing Bowyers Violin.............and he's a professional sportsman :/

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/11869944.Adam_Henley_admits_Blackburn_Rovers_are_running_on_empty_but_wants_final_push/?ref=mac

The lads just forced his way into the team after a long spell in the wilderness and has just been called up for his country. He should be ready to run through walls fuelled by pride and adrenalin not harping on for an afternoon nap and banging his managers defeatist drum despite the first XI against Brentford being arguably full strength based on form.

It's a worrying mindset

It's unbelievable isn't it. Cairney's comment a month into the season that he'd gone abroad for a few days to "recharge the batteries" still rankle with me.

The players comments seem to back up their attitude and demeanour on the pitch that they're on easy street. Whole new mindset required around Ewood imo.

[adsfortheblues]

The arguement is flawed ads, it's not Bowyers fault we payed 8m for Rhodes, he wasn't involved in his transfer. That's just bunkum, distorting the facts to hammer the manager.

He may well have signed 24 players, most of which are free transfers, other clubs rejects and loans.

I'm all for debating the managers position but let's keep it real.

We know it's not Bowyers fault mate, I am not saying that, and neither was Shaun. The 'real' fact is though that Bowyer possesses one of the most expensivley assembled squads in the league.

We have paid a fair few fees for players. We are looking at a minimum of £5k per week wages for each player, that's £5,760,000. Then add on the transfer fees we have paid:

Marshall £1million

Corey Evans £500,000

Devarn Green estimated £100,000

Tom Cairney £500,000

Craig Conway £300,000

Rudy Gestede £300,000

Shane Duffy £1.5million

Jason Steele £200,000

That brings our total to £10,160,000 (as a minimum).

I say minimum because probably at least half of the players who have been brought in will probably be on £10k per week. If thats the case then half of the 24 would mean another £2,880,000. Bringing the total to £13,040,000. For me this is a minimum of what we have paid for those 24 players Gary has brought in. Therefore if we are keeping it real, Gary has had quite a bit to play with.

[Gav]

I don't understand where this confidence comes from that another manager would walk this league with the current squad.

The vast majority of players in the squad have no reputation or form in their careers that suggests they're capable of putting together a promotion run, it's just pie in the sky, without foundation for me.

[Stuart]

I don't understand where this confidence comes from that another manager would walk this league with the current squad.

The vast majority of players in the squad have no reputation or form in their careers that suggests they're capable of putting together a promotion run, it's just pie in the sky, without foundation for me.

Didn't most of his players get promoted with their previous teams?

[RevidgeBlue]

I hesitate to sound too critical of Parson because I admire greatly and agree with completely his view on supporting the Club as a whole through thick and thin However I anticipate next season that if GB stays and we struggle he will argue any manager would struggle under the prevailing economic circumstances.

Which left me wondering the other night. I wonder how our budget next season (the last one with reduced parachute payments) will compare with the sort of budget Brentford have had over the last 2 seasons?.

Still not too shabbily I'd imagine.

[tomphil]

I honestly don't know how you can say that Parson. GB was allowed to keep all his best players in the summer by the owners, and has failed miserably imo.

If the FFP regulations force a sale of the better players in the summer I wouldn't have thought there'd be any sort of guarantee as to our safety with GB in charge.

It's unbelievable isn't it. Cairney's comment a month into the season that he'd gone abroad for a few days to "recharge the batteries" still rankle with me.

The players comments seem to back up their attitude and demeanour on the pitch that they're on easy street. Whole new mindset required around Ewood imo.

Those comments sent me into meltdown as well along with players posting pics on their mini jollies in the sun. For gods sake they'd only been back in a few weeks and some of their teammates were playing/travelling/training with their countries but good old you know who gives the rest a week off or something. Unbelievable. Plus his insistence in talking about them like they are a bunch of kids when they are a first team squad not a development squad. It's obvious there is a laid back approach to things.

[AllRoverAsia]

Bowyer has not delivered regression at all, the season isn't over yet and we're in the quarter finals of The FA Cup, so thats bunkum.

Did you go under Berg or Appleton? the footballing side of things is 100% better than when those 2 were in charge, and people seem to forget that in the pursuit of relatively instant success.

Now I'm not a massive Bowyer fan, but this constant chipping away at his record and attempts to discredit him, paint him as the bad guy is boring, especially when it comes from someone who never steps foot into the ground, never watches us live and you’re not alone in this crusade.

But carry on, some seem to like it.

Oh and those 2 were given every chance to change things weren't they? They were quickly binned in the pursuit of relatively instant success, whatever the hell that is - didn't really work though did it.

[ABBEY]

The sad fact is that anyone from the top to the bottom of BRFC could say absolutely anything in any interview whatsoever, and the same group of people on here will use it to attack the individual and the football club. It's where this place is.

Attack ? Why ? He's moaning they are tired !

They play football how can they be tired . All you do is come on here and moan at everyone .. It's where you are .! Unless of course you think they are tired .

[Baz]

I hesitate to sound too critical of Parson because I admire greatly and agree with completely his view on supporting the Club as a whole through thick and thin However I anticipate next season that if GB stays and we struggle he will argue any manager would struggle under the prevailing economic circumstances.

Which left me wondering the other night. I wonder how our budget next season (the last one with reduced parachute payments) will compare with the sort of budget Brentford have had over the last 2 seasons?.

Still not too shabbily I'd imagine.

We've already borrowed against and spent next seasons parachute money Rev.

[Husky]

I though we had a quality academy and facilities before they turned up. In fact, since they arrived there has been nobody come through into the first team, whereas we used to have a decent pipeline of good kids.

This is a good point. If we don't even have one young player who is capable of coming on and running about for 15 minutes (in place of a Varney) then all I can say is that they must be absolute toilet.............or we have an incompetent manager...........or maybe both?

[Exiled in Toronto]

There is no fast track. But should we continue on what is now a hard set downward slope?

Souness took over on March 14th 2000 and in his first full season he spent £7.9m to get us promoted

John Curtis Man Utd £1,500,000 01 Jun, 2000

Stig-Inge Bjornebye Liverpool £300,000 26 Jun, 2000

Craig Hignett Barnsley £2,250,000 10 Jul, 2000

Mark Hughes Everton Free 24 Oct, 2000

Brad Friedel Liverpool Free 03 Nov, 2000

Marcus Bent Sheff Utd £2,100,000 23 Nov, 2000

Henning Berg Man Utd £1,750,000 15 Dec, 2000

That's less than one Jordan Rhodes. Bowyer may not have signed him but he's getting the (mis)use out of him all the same.

In the 3 seasons we have been out of the PL the club has spent £17.55m.

Out of that outlay only Etuhu (£1.5m) has been moved on who cost us money.

So Bowyer has a squad that cost £16,050,000

SIXTEEN MILLION AND FIFTY THOUSAND POUNDS!!

Make up your own mind on how well he's using such lavish resources

Source:http://www.transferleague.co.uk/blackburn-rovers/english-football-teams/blackburn-rovers-transfers

it does not include Ben Marshal @ £1m or Gestede @ £300k

You might want to compare apples with apples and include the prices paid for the squad Souness inherited, such as 8 million for Jansen and Ward to name but two, plus add on 15 years transfer fee inflation. Souness did a great job but he certainly wasn't operating on a shoestring.

[47er]

You couldn't be more wrong Stuart. Of course, I want to be back in the Premier League. I want to travel around Europe again following the Rovers - who wouldn't. They were the best times I've had watching the Rovers. It's just that I don't think there is a fast track to that anymore. When we came down last time we were in a position to throw money at it and Souness was the ideal manager for that scenario. This time we can't and FFP will ensure we can't for some time to come. Therefore we have to travel down a different road, picking up other folks cast-offs - Gestede, Conway, Cairney, Marshall etc - and together with our own products - Lowe, Henley, Olsson, Hanley etc - try and build a squad that will challenge for promotion. As Ipswich and Derby have found it may take years before all the pieces slot into place.

Once again, we will not be building anything. Boyer's remit is to sign players on the cheap and sell for a profit. Rather than adding to the squad, he will have to rebuild it, over and over again

[bob fleming]

You might want to compare apples with apples and include the prices paid for the squad Souness inherited, such as 8 million for Jansen and Ward to name but two, plus add on 15 years transfer fee inflation. Souness did a great job but he certainly wasn't operating on a shoestring.

Souness also inherited Duff and Dunn. £22.5m there when sold.