[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Gav]

Once again, we will not be building anything. Boyer's remit is to sign players on the cheap and sell for a profit. Rather than adding to the squad, he will have to rebuild it, over and over again

I think we've been down this route before 47er, but both Allardyce and Hughes worked under similar restrictions. John Williams told both managers they needed to sell a player or players every few seasons to balance the books.

[47er]

Indeed we have been down this route before Gav and I've explained the difference between then and now more than once.

But you still think things are the same as they were! I really can't do any more!

Perhaps I could add that it won't be one player every few seasons. More like several players every season, starting with Rhodes and Gestede.

[Gav]

Indeed we have been down this route before Gav and I've explained the difference between then and now more than once.

But you still think things are the same as they were! I really can't do any more!

Perhaps I could add that it won't be one player every few seasons. More like several players every season, starting with Rhodes and Gestede.

Surely it's horses for courses 47er.

A Santa Cruz for 17m is exactly the same as Gestede and Rhodes for 17m.

We're in a completely different market place these days but we have to sell to survive, ignoring the debt in this instance.

No different in my book.

[den]

We've only had two people (coaches) appointed to manager, primarily for their perceived ability to make silk purses out of sows ears Gav - Kean and Bowyer. Everyone else has been appointed because they were thought to be good managers. And before Kendall is mentioned, - he was a player coach at Stoke, appointed as player manager at Ewood, but with the belief that he was a top up and coming young manager.

The manager situation at rovers since Venkys turned up, is nothing like anything we've had before.

[glen9mullan]

Working on a shoestring is what Simon Grayson is doing at North End , they will more than likely come up this season .

Next season it will be interesting how they do in comparison to Rovers

[speeeeeeedie]

We've only had two people (coaches) appointed to manager, primarily for their perceived ability to make silk purses out of sows ears Gav - Kean and Bowyer. Everyone else has been appointed because they were thought to be good

The manager situation at rovers since Venkys turned up, is nothing like anything we've had before.

Kidd was a coach too before he was appointed. Still is too. But he was a terrible manager.

Comparing Rovers now to Rovers under Souness is not the same.

He had money to spend. His remit was to get Rovers promoted. He inherited some excellent players. But by no means was he to buy players and sell on for profit.

No Rovers manager prior to Venkys had to operate solely as a developer of talent, and subsequently cash. They sold players out of necessity, not as a finishing school. My first memory of this was Simon Barker.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Kidd was a coach too before he was appointed. Still is too. But he was a terrible manager.

Comparing Rovers now to Rovers under Souness is not the same.

He had money to spend. His remit was to get Rovers promoted. He inherited some excellent players. But by no means was he to buy players and sell on for profit.

No Rovers manager prior to Venkys had to operate solely as a developer of talent, and subsequently cash. They sold players out of necessity, not as a finishing school. My first memory of this was Simon Barker.

It was inevitable he would go though, as it was for Hird and Bailey. Rhodes wouldn't have been here this long back in those days either.

[No Nay Never]

There is no fast track. But should we continue on what is now a hard set downward slope?

Souness took over on March 14th 2000 and in his first full season he spent £7.9m to get us promoted

John Curtis Man Utd £1,500,000 01 Jun, 2000

Stig-Inge Bjornebye Liverpool £300,000 26 Jun, 2000

Craig Hignett Barnsley £2,250,000 10 Jul, 2000

Mark Hughes Everton Free 24 Oct, 2000

Brad Friedel Liverpool Free 03 Nov, 2000

Marcus Bent Sheff Utd £2,100,000 23 Nov, 2000

Henning Berg Man Utd £1,750,000 15 Dec, 2000

That's less than one Jordan Rhodes. Bowyer may not have signed him but he's getting the (mis)use out of him all the same.

In the 3 seasons we have been out of the PL the club has spent £17.55m.

Out of that outlay only Etuhu (£1.5m) has been moved on who cost us money.

So Bowyer has a squad that cost £16,050,000

SIXTEEN MILLION AND FIFTY THOUSAND POUNDS!!

Make up your own mind on how well he's using such lavish resources

Source:http://www.transferleague.co.uk/blackburn-rovers/english-football-teams/blackburn-rovers-transfers

it does not include Ben Marshal @ £1m or Gestede @ £300k

On that basis though when Souness took over he had Matt Jansen, Keith Gillespie, Gary Flitcroft, Jason Mcateer, Nathan Blake and Egil Ostenstad the six of those far surpass the 16million value of Bowyers squad, even 14 years ago.

[Parsonblue]

Working on a shoestring is what Simon Grayson is doing at North End , they will more than likely come up this season .

Next season it will be interesting how they do in comparison to Rovers

And Grayson went down the same managerial route as Bowyer is now doing. He started as Reserve Team coach at Blackpool, became caretaker manager and was then appointed permanent manager. All managers have to start somewhere which is something many people forget. Den mentioned Kendall, he came as player-manager but had no managerial experience before he arrived at Ewood, his only experience was that of a coach. Bowyer is no different from many managers whose natural progression is player-coach-manager.

[Waggy76]

If the club was run by competent people , Bowyer would never have been appointed in the 1st place ......

[DE.]

And Grayson went down the same managerial route as Bowyer is now doing. He started as Reserve Team coach at Blackpool, became caretaker manager and was then appointed permanent manager. All managers have to start somewhere which is something many people forget. Den mentioned Kendall, he came as player-manager but had no managerial experience before he arrived at Ewood, his only experience was that of a coach. Bowyer is no different from many managers whose natural progression is player-coach-manager.

Yeah, except Grayson started at Blackpool who at the time were in League One battling relegation and in terms of reputation and structure were poles apart from where we currently are. Until he got there they hadn't been further than the third round of the FA Cup in 17 years and the League Cup in 35 years! They were also relatively new to the heady heights of League One, spending most of their history in the bottom tiers of League football.

Also worth noting Grayson has not really had any success outside of League One, being sacked from both Leeds and Huddersfield whilst in the Championship due to poor results. He's currently still in League One with Preston. He's doing well with them now but based on his Championship track record I wouldn't necessarily expect that to continue next season.

[martonrover]

To me the problem with Bowyer is not so much his lack of previous experience but what he is like now as a seasoned manager.

It was obvious we needed someone with a decent CV at the time but that's history.

Grayson was doing fine at Leeds and, albeit in a lower division, has a track record of success.

The likes of Kenny Jackett dispel the stability myth, pushing for a second successive promotion.

Bowyer is a plodder who plays dull football. The limit of his ability is bumbling along in the Championship.

By the end of the season he still won't know what his best side is.

[AllRoverAsia]

Bowyer must now be judged as a Manager as not as a Coach wannabe Manager. He's has the job long enough now............basically he's too soft with the squad and has imo proven tactically inept on most occasions.

[ABBEY]

And Grayson went down the same managerial route as Bowyer is now doing. He started as Reserve Team coach at Blackpool, became caretaker manager and was then appointed permanent manager. All managers have to start somewhere which is something many people forget. Den mentioned Kendall, he came as player-manager but had no managerial experience before he arrived at Ewood, his only experience was that of a coach. Bowyer is no different from many managers whose natural progression is player-coach-manager.

Kendalll & Grayson have had vastly more footballing experience than Mr nice

[den]

No Rovers manager prior to Venkys had to operate solely as a developer of talent, and subsequently cash. They sold players out of necessity, not as a finishing school. My first memory of this was Simon Barker.

+1

[den]

And Grayson went down the same managerial route as Bowyer is now doing. He started as Reserve Team coach at Blackpool, became caretaker manager and was then appointed permanent manager. All managers have to start somewhere which is something many people forget. Den mentioned Kendall, he came as player-manager but had no managerial experience before he arrived at Ewood, his only experience was that of a coach. Bowyer is no different from many managers whose natural progression is player-coach-manager.

Why is it so difficult to understand?

my point hasn't got anything to do with giving a coach an opportunity as a manager. It's to do with what they're being tasked to do as a first priority. It's to do with "why" they're being appointed. The sooner we get back to appointing proper managers who are asked to do one thing only - get us up and out of this league, and are judged on that rather than how much money has been made out of the latest freebie, is the time when we'll stand a chance of progressing as a club.

[Pedro]

Uncle Gaz, one of the boys. Absolutely great at backslapping and bullsheeting. Tactically naive, can't sort out basic defensive problems and can't get the best out of talented players. How some are so charmed by mediocrity and failure is beyond me. Fear I suppose.

[gumboots]

No. A complete lack of any way of in any way influencing decisions made by people who haven't a clue and care even less. If there were anything we could do to change things I don't doubt most of us would, but this is what we have been brought to. Fans get restless at other clubs and their owners do something- sunderland and villa most recently. We get restless the press get on our backs and Madame doesn't bat an eyelid. That's the difference. Most owners at least put up a show of trying to run the club properly and respond to what their fans think even if they wait too long for it to do any good. Ours don't hear anything unless they want to hear it and even then they don't act

[tomphil]

I think they've lost interest now to be honest and Mrs D is just happy to let it plod along for minimum fuss that's why they leave everyone in situ. Been no sign of them this season apart from first couple of games and before the defenders of the realm pipe up they are staying away on purpose, @#/?. When they want to come they come regardless of any tiny fan reaction. Mr B is fed up of his toy now so big sis has put it on the shelf to gather dust.

[Waggy76]

No. A complete lack of any way of in any way influencing decisions made by people who haven't a clue and care even less. If there were anything we could do to change things I don't doubt most of us would, but this is what we have been brought to. Fans get restless at other clubs and their owners do something- sunderland and villa most recently. We get restless the press get on our backs and Madame doesn't bat an eyelid. That's the difference. Most owners at least put up a show of trying to run the club properly and respond to what their fans think even if they wait too long for it to do any good. Ours don't hear anything unless they want to hear it and even then they don't act

Exactly , the only thing left is to vote with your feet !

1000s already have with many more too follow ....

[AllRoverAsia]

I think they've lost interest now to be honest and Mrs D is just happy to let it plod along for minimum fuss that's why they leave everyone in situ. Been no sign of them this season apart from first couple of games and before the defenders of the realm pipe up they are staying away on purpose, @#/?. When they want to come they come regardless of any tiny fan reaction. Mr B is fed up of his toy now so big sis has put it on the shelf to gather dust.

I think you are correct and I wish the fat git would do one and quick.

[Gav]

On that basis though when Souness took over he had Matt Jansen, Keith Gillespie, Gary Flitcroft, Jason Mcateer, Nathan Blake and Egil Ostenstad the six of those far surpass the 16million value of Bowyers squad, even 14 years ago.

Trying to attribute 16m to Bowyer over the past 2 seasons is wide of the mark also, the comparison with the Souness side laughable.

But just on the Souness side, far far superior to anything we see in this league, mid table Premiership I'd say, and worth probably 50m+ in today's market.

[47er]

Exactly , the only thing left is to vote with your feet !

1000s already have with many more too follow ....

The problem with us is that half our supporters think everything is alright, we had our day in the sun, Jack died and the funding with him and now we are back to the eighties and the way it was always meant to be.

To make any impression on the Lunes from Pune, we would all have to speak with one voice.

And that seems a very remote possibility.

[ABBEY]

I wonder if the Lunes genuinly believe we are promotion candidates?

[yoda]

The problem with us is that half our supporters think everything is alright, we had our day in the sun, Jack died and the funding with him and now we are back to the eighties and the way it was always meant to be.

To make any impression on the Lunes from Pune, we would all have to speak with one voice.

And that seems a very remote possibility.

"and they way it was always meant to be"

I for one don't accept that,

This is Blackburn Rovers, the most successful town football club in the world,

The current owners are just passing by relative to the history of the Rovers