[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Watching a club like Bournemouth right now,small ground,small support,small resources....Jesus Christ it just hits home hard how much we as a club are failing badly on all levels.

It's quite frankly been a pathetic effort this season.

Yoda,you surely meant they are 'pissing' on our history......

[Gav]

The problem with us is that half our supporters think everything is alright, we had our day in the sun, Jack died and the funding with him and now we are back to the eighties and the way it was always meant to be.

To make any impression on the Lunes from Pune, we would all have to speak with one voice.

And that seems a very remote possibility.

Things have been a damn site worse than they are at the moment 47er, so a period of stability on the pitch is comfort for some, me included after the king rat era when I was on the verge of 'doing a stretch' at her majesties pleasure had I got near that ******* crook ****, and it wasn't for the want of trying!

It makes me laugh when people slag me and others off about the backing of Bowyer, not aimed at you 47er. Most posters have absolutely no idea what I and other posters have gone through over the past 5yrs, its not one size fits all, we've all suffered, but maybe some of us have suffered more than others, and to just dismiss how people are feeling is short sighted and ignorant, especially when the ones doing the slagging off haven’t been to Ewood for years and years.

[arbitro]

Things have been a damn site worse than they are at the moment 47er, so a period of stability on the pitch is comfort for some, me included after the king rat era when I was on the verge of 'doing a stretch' at her majesties pleasure had I got near that ******* crook ****, and it wasn't for the want of trying!

It makes me laugh when people slag me and others off about the backing of Bowyer, not aimed at you 47er. Most posters have absolutely no idea what I and other posters have gone through over the past 5yrs, its not one size fits all, we've all suffered, but maybe some of us have suffered more than others, and to just dismiss how people are feeling is short sighted and ignorant, especially when the ones doing the slagging off havent been to Ewood for years and years.

But if you take the corruption away there are lots of similarities. Both (over) promoted from coaches and both clearly out of their depth as in my opinion they are both tactically bereft and don't generally know how to win games. Overall from a purely footballing perspective I have been as disappointed with Bowyer as I have with Kean.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Watching a club like Bournemouth right now,small ground,small support,small resources....Jesus Christ it just hits home hard how much we as a club are failing badly on all levels.

It's quite frankly been a pathetic effort this season.

Yoda,you surely meant they are 'pissing' on our history......

Imagine how Derby fans must be feeling now with their big crowds and proper manager: 2 wins in the last ten!

[Rover_Shaun]

On that basis though when Souness took over he had Matt Jansen, Keith Gillespie, Gary Flitcroft, Jason Mcateer, Nathan Blake and Egil Ostenstad the six of those far surpass the 16million value of Bowyers squad, even 14 years ago.

It was said souness had more money to buy our way out of the championship. I showed that the club has spent a lot more this time whilst in the Championship than Souness and Kidd did. Who was at the club at the time is irrelevant.

[Gav]

But if you take the corruption away there are lots of similarities. Both (over) promoted from coaches and both clearly out of their depth as in my opinion they are both tactically bereft and don't generally know how to win games. Overall from a purely footballing perspective I have been as disappointed with Bowyer as I have with Kean.

How the hell can you take away the corruption?

Should we take away the systematic demonisation of the fans through the national media, those drunks on sky etc.

The sacking of proper footballing people, top quality players sold...

I know you're talking about the footballing side of things but you're way off the mark, look at the side **** inherited alone!

Sorry arbitro but that's just bunkum.

You also missed the point. It was said souness had more money to buy our way out of the championship. I proved he spent less. Personal opinion of yhe quality of the signings is irrellevant.

Sorry Shaun but it's a silly comparison for all the reasons already given.

[Exiled in Toronto]

But if you take the corruption away there are lots of similarities. Both (over) promoted from coaches and both clearly out of their depth as in my opinion they are both tactically bereft and don't generally know how to win games. Overall from a purely footballing perspective I have been as disappointed with Bowyer as I have with Kean.

I don't disagree Tony, neither showed much if any ability to influence a game positively while it was in progress and both regularly came up with nonsense formations. But isn't putting the corruption thing aside a bit like saying, "Leaving aside the murder of the two princes in the Tower, I found Richard III's kingship to be as disappointing as that of Henry VI"? Bowyer's footnote in our history will most likely begin and end with the dreaded word stability whereas Kean will always have a chapter to himself.

My latest copy of the retro footy magazine, Backpass, arrived yesterday and the interviews with old players are always quite candid as to the abilities of the managers they worked under. I find it remarkable how rare the combination of tactically astute and great man manager coincide or even occur at all. Both Harry Potts and Big Ron, to name but two, are labelled tactically clueless by players who one would think had good reason to like them (Steve Kindon and Brendon Batson) . Not to say we shouldn't aim higher than our current standard of course.

[ABBEY]

Imagine how Derby fans must be feeling now with their big crowds and proper manager: 2 wins in the last ten!

13 points better off than us .!

[DE.]

Imagine how Derby fans must be feeling now with their big crowds and proper manager: 2 wins in the last ten!

We'd all swap positions with them in a heartbeat, let's be honest. A terrible time for them to lose form but they're still way ahead of us.

[Exiled in Toronto]

13 points better off than us .!

I think they will be more focused on their rapidly widening points gap behind the mighty Bournemouth and Watford. The recent death of Dave Mackay must have Derby fans going through their own "Look how far we have fallen" hand-wringing.

We'd all swap positions with them in a heartbeat, let's be honest. A terrible time for them to lose form but they're still way ahead of us.

If they don't turn it around and get promotion they are no better off than us whatsoever. It's all or nothing in this division

[Rover_Shaun]

Sorry Shaun but it's a silly comparison for all the reasons already given.

I never made a comparison. I just posted cold hard and unsubjective financial facts. How good the players were is irrelevant to the claim made.

Parson claimed Souness had far bigger spending resources when we were last in the Championship. I just posted that he spent under £8m and we have spent over £16m so far. Myth debunked.

[DE.]

If they don't turn it around and get promotion they are no better off than us whatsoever. It's all or nothing in this division

Assuming we're both in the same division next season, you wouldn't take their manager, squad, non-embargo status or board structure over ours? Whilst I agree that if they don't go up this season then they've achieved no more than us, they'll still be better off next season whether they get promoted or not.

[thenodrog]

Spot on. The determination and tenacity of the Brentford players put ours to shame. Its not down to them being multi-million pound world class players, its down to the organisation and motivation by the manager.

Alan Judge being the prime example. Bowyer hardly played him and he didn't look good when he did play. He is now one of the best midfielder in the league this season (only player in the top 10 tackles and assists).

Bowyer doesn't know how to play the high-tempo game that is successful in this league.

That said, Venkys choosing a manager is a scary thought. Bet they have never even seen what the likes of Warburton has done.

I always liked Judge and was sorry to see him go. He always had a good attitude and put a shift in but unfortunately he was rarely played in his best position for us. He was stuck on the wing where his lack of pace was highlighted.

[Rover_Shaun]

Imagine how Derby fans must be feeling now with their big crowds and proper manager: 2 wins in the last ten!

Poor darlings. Automatic chance of promotion. Chance of promotion via the playoffs. Rather than having 9 dead rubbers left, and most likeky, waiting to go out of the cup. A very dseperate defence of Bowyer if it was meant as such/

[DE.]

I always liked Judge and was sorry to see him go. He always had a good attitude and put a shift in but unfortunately he was rarely played in his best position for us. He was stuck on the wing where his lack of pace was highlighted.

Judge could have replaced Dunny. He may not be on Dunn's level technically but he's more than good enough to play in that position at our current level.

Problem is we aren't playing our football in a way that would suit the likes of Judge anyway. He won't win many flick ons and that's all our second striker/attacking midfielder is there for at the moment.

[arbitro]

I don't disagree Tony, neither showed much if any ability to influence a game positively while it was in progress and both regularly came up with nonsense formations. But isn't putting the corruption thing aside a bit like saying, "Leaving aside the murder of the two princes in the Tower, I found Richard III's kingship to be as disappointing as that of Henry VI"? Bowyer's footnote in our history will most likely begin and end with the dreaded word stability whereas Kean will always have a chapter to himself.

My latest copy of the retro footy magazine, Backpass, arrived yesterday and the interviews with old players are always quite candid as to the abilities of the managers they worked under. I find it remarkable how rare the combination of tactically astute and great man manager coincide or even occur at all. Both Harry Potts and Big Ron, to name but two, are labelled tactically clueless by players who one would think had good reason to like them (Steve Kindon and Brendon Batson) . Not to say we shouldn't aim higher than our current standard of course.

Alas you might recall history wasn't my best subject John so the. I can't see, from a purely footballing perspective any difference between the two. The knack of winning football matches is down to several things as we have been lucky to witness down the years. Kean and Bowyer are clearly lacking here.

[Gav]

I never made a comparison. I just posted cold hard and unsubjective financial facts. How good the players were is irrelevant to the claim made.

Parson claimed Souness had far bigger spending resources when we were last in the Championship. I just posted that he spent under £8m and we have spent over £16m so far. Myth debunked.

It's a different market today, those players would cost 40m in today's market.

[thenodrog]

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[Rover_Shaun]

It's a different market today, those players would cost 40m in today's market.

I agree. But thats still not the point is it?

Thanks for that insight Gordon

[thenodrog]

Judge could have replaced Dunny. He may not be on Dunn's level technically but he's more than good enough to play in that position at our current level.

Problem is we aren't playing our football in a way that would suit the likes of Judge anyway. He won't win many flick ons and that's all our second striker/attacking midfielder is there for at the moment.

I think tbf to Bowyer I think we had Dunny, Rochina and Cairney that he felt were better than Alan Judge. If it's a money thing it's odd cos he got rid of the cheapest.

[Gav]

I agree. But thats still not the point is it?

Thanks for that insight Gordon

I don't think anyone got the point, to compare Bowyers spend and Souness spend is ludicrous Shaun.

[DE.]

I think tbf to Bowyer I think we had Dunny, Rochina and Cairney that he felt were better than Alan Judge. If it's a money thing it's odd cos he got rid of the cheapest.

True - but on the other hand Dunn even at that time was barely good for a handful of matches per season, Rochina never seemed to be in our plans and Bowyer usually plays Cairney wide as opposed to centrally. Dunn and Rochina are both gone (one physically, one literally) while Cairney still either plays wide or further back in midfield in favour of having Brown/Gestede 'in the hole'.

Obv hindsight is what it is, and I doubt many fans were too bothered when Judge left. It's a shame regardless.

[Rover_Shaun]

I don't think anyone got the point, to compare Bowyers spend and Souness spend is ludicrous Shaun.

Do you read anything? I was not comparing anything to Bowyers spend. It was said the club had more funds then (to get promotion) when we actually have spent more this time. It was however a poorly exececuted attempt to excuse the disastrous performance of our last 4 managers. Unless you are being purposely obtuse?

[Gav]

Do you read anything? I was not comparing anything to Bowyers spend. It was said the club had more funds then (to get promotion) when we actually have spent more this time. It was however a poorly exececuted attempt to excuse the disastrous performance of our last 4 managers. Unless you are being purposely obtuse?

bunkum for the reasons stated by many.

Anyway I'm off to watch Rovers in the sun, enjoy 'murder, she wrote'!

[Rover_Shaun]

bunkum for the reasons stated by many.

Anyway I'm off to watch Rovers in the sun, enjoy 'murder, she wrote'!

So Rovers havent spent more to try to get promotion this time than they did the last time DESPITE THE CLEAR FACT THEY HAVE. Bunkem is the word and you post it every time.

Enjoy and remember to watch this time as you seem to have a cataract for facts and figures