[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[DE.]

Look at this years performances that have really mattered, against the top clubs going for promotion. The top 8 (Bournemouth, Watford, Boro, Norwich, Derby, Ipswich, Brentford, Wolves)

P15 W1 D5 L9 F15 A27 Pts 8 GD -12

Abysmal.

[Gav]

I have answered it, I said he's not good enough to take us up.

Just to be clear den as you seem to be ignoring it....

[glen9mullan]

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

[gumboots]

If they cant see millions disappearing hand over fist then how are they getting it covered ? washing clothes? bookies ? (not accusation but thinking out loud for logical answers)shouldn't be about books though , surely if you own a football club you will see the goals during a game and see empty seats everywhere?

Of course you should because you or someone you trust should be there every week feeding back exactly what is going on. You should look at everything and see what's going on, but we know this lot aren't there. When they have been to the ground they don't stay till the end of a match. However, we are told they run or get someone to run other businesses very seriously and well, so surely they have to look at such things as customer satisfaction and money through tills. If it were my money invested in a football club I'd be looking to know every part of the business. I'd want to see competence across the whole range of the club and excellence in most, certainly the best I could get. But for some inexplicable reason these supposedly successful business people don't operate like that. They don't get the best advice they can get. They don't listen to anyone who won't tell them what they want to hear. Perhaps they will listen to the sound of silence and think job well done. Who knows?

[mustard]

I've said for months now that I don't think Bowyer is the man to take us up to the Premier League.

If I were in charge I'd look to change things in the summer, I'd certainly give Bowyer the respect he deserves and offer him a chance to stay in the club, maybe a move back to the youth team. If he turns that down then thats his perogative.

I think that keeps the face of the owners, Bowyer and the clubs reputation.

As for why I think its time for a change is....the complete indifference that is flowing through the club from the board to the fans, no one seems to grasp the severity of the situation. Hemoragging money, our Premier League days are going to be 4 seasons ago and ultimately this season has been a massive step backwards.

Everything was set for Bowyer in the summer, granted no major signings in, but he kept hold of ''HIS'' squad, Gestede, Rhodes, Hanley, Marshall and Cairney all stayed despite supposed interest. Yet by the middle of February our season was over!

The cup run has masked a multitude of problems.

As you know I'm a fan of statistics, and Bowyer is consistent at getting mixed results.

Look at this years performances that have really mattered, against the top clubs going for promotion. The top 8 (Bournemouth, Watford, Boro, Norwich, Derby, Ipswich, Brentford, Wolves)

P15 W1 D5 L9 F15 A27 Pts 8 GD -12

I pointed out similar on Facebook re the results against the promotion chasing pack (at the start of the season, who'd have thought we'd be including Ipswich, Brentford and Wolves in that?)

Bowyer has managed to beat lesser teams in this league due to us having superior players. Against teams who have a set of players rivalling ours, coupled with a talented manager, (assuming they aren't in crisis) we are incredibly unlikely to beat them.

Tactically the man is all over the place. One of my favourite examples is starting Cairney wide right vs Norwich, despite them having Redmond on the wing with Martin Olsson overlapping. A blind man and his dog could have seen that Cairney wouldn't track back and would drift inside leaving Olsson a field day bombing on. That day, Baptiste had a blinder and kept Redmond quiet, but I remember Olsson getting in behind a few times and they fluffed a few chances. Think he changed it mid-second half. Didn't matter though as we still lost.

[broadsword]

You have to wonder what Venky's are getting out of owning this club.

They're happy to turn a small profit on transfers, but aren't fussed about losing £100m.

I'm trying to believe that they're mentally sub-normal, because the alternative explanation isn't veyr palatable.

[G Somerset Rover]

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

Is this something you have heard Glen or just your opinion?

I've heard from lots of sources that GB's objective was top 6 this season. Our failure to reach this by some margin should surely mean his head is on the chopping board.

[J*B]

I'm very confident we will beat Liverpool and this season will be written up as a success. The reality is the Liverpool game is completely irrelevant - what matters is the increasing debt piling on to the club. Theres only two ways out; Promotion or Sell all the assets, yet for whatever reason the board and owners seem to be happy to continue in the 'race for 9th'.

[glen9mullan]

Is this something you have heard Glen or just your opinion?

I've heard from lots of sources that GB's objective was top 6 this season. Our failure to reach this by some margin should surely mean his head is on the chopping board.

Was told by impeccable source this was happening under Kean and certainly during Bowyers spell as caretaker , if it's still the case I don't know ,

However id not post it if it was fabrication , we can all see what's happening at Blackpool , I.e people posting untruths or slander

However it would make sense, why he's still here

[ABBEY]

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

THE v'S PICK THE TEAM? IF SO THE BOREYA IS AS CORRUPT AS KEAN?

[J*B]

Struggling with Venkys picking the team. I don't think they know enough about our players to pick them in anything remotely like their genuine positions and not play some 3-3-4 formation. I can however see them having an 'advisor' asking them to ask why certain players aren't playing.

[ada2020]

Playing the den role for a minute.

Its simple Toppers, just answer the question:

Answers

No

None

99% of the fanbase could answer these simple questions

Just answer the questions den, its simple

answers

No

None

Surely by your stance of backing Bowyer they got one decision right.

In your opinion of course.

[Gav]

Surely by your stance of backing Bowyer they got one decision right.

In your opinion of course.

If only it was that simple as that ada, I never wanted Bowyer as manager but he certainly derserved his chance at the time.

He's not the man for the job now, but I'd rather have Bowyer than Craig Short or any other easy cheap appointment that will come in should Bowyer be sacked.

[Amo]

If only it was that simple as that ada, I never wanted Bowyer as manager but he certainly derserved his chance at the time.

Bowyer "deserved his chance" and he got it. Ergo, Venky's have done thing right in your book, GAV.

Now do you see why this position of backing the manager out of fear of the alternative is so deeply flawed?

[Gav]

Bowyer "deserved his chance" and he got it. Ergo, Venky's have done thing right in your book, GAV.

Now do you see why this position of backing the manager out of fear of the alternative is so deeply flawed?

Yes nice try Toppers

They should have appointed Harry Redknap (with a big financial incentive) or Ian Holloway at the time IMO, but Bowyer deserved his chance and they gave it to him.

So you're wrong I'm afraid.

[JBiz]

As I pointed out to Jbizzle, this line of reasoning is fallacious because you're advocating keeping a manager who Venky's themselves hired.

They hardly went out and found him. He essentially got the job by default because somehow he put a team out that put some graft in. After 2 years of watching us shirk challenges, let crosses in and blatantly not give a @#/? - it was a refreshing change.

As this entire discussion suggests- he can do more than the others they hired but not what we need*

Problem is- this angle of opinion I, and a few others hold- that the chance the Raos will stumble on someone else better than Gary? 0%. Potentially better if they went and got someone who cares about the club and asked for their input.

Not PNE.

*need - essentially we need someone to get us out of this sodding league.

[Amo]

Yes nice try Toppers

They should have appointed Harry Redknap (with a big financial incentive) or Ian Holloway at the time IMO, but Bowyer deserved his chance and they gave it to him.

So you're wrong I'm afraid.

How can I be wrong, Gav? I'm simply taking your post to its logical conclusion. These are your words, not mine.

They hardly went out and found him. He essentially got the job by default because somehow he put a team out that put some graft in. After 2 years of watching us shirk challenges, let crosses in and blatantly not give a @#/? - it was a refreshing change.

As this entire discussion suggests- he can do more than the others they hired but not what we need*

Problem is- this angle of opinion I, and a few others hold- that the chance the Raos will stumble on someone else better than Gary? 0%. Potentially better if they went and got someone who cares about the club and asked for their input.

Not PNE.

*need - essentially we need someone to get us out of this sodding league.

Your argument rests on Venky's (and the board) being so utterly clueless that they are unable to recognise a manager with the right qualities to take the club forward. And yet on the other hand you argue that Bowyer was picked on merit. Can you people not see that you're contradicting yourselves?

[Tom]

Strikes me he isn't nearly as honorable as it was made out.

He will go over there with Steve Kean type weasel words (as we see often in his interviews directed to Pune) and come back with a new contract and not a real care if we go up or not anytime soon.

I know that line of thought offends people but it's how I see it.

I could put that aside if he was a good manager but that combined with his inability to keep most of us interested or the team on track to success means I can't wait till he goes.

[Gav]

How can I be wrong, Gav? I'm simply taking your post to its logical conclusion. These are your words, not mine.

Its wrong because I wanted Arry or Olly, I can't be more clear than that Toppers.

But it doesn't take away the fact that Venkys, and a good number of the support, believed Bowyer deserved his chance.

[Amo]

Its wrong because I wanted Arry or Olly, I can't be more clear than that Toppers.

Forget about who you actually wanted in charge, you just said that Bowyer earned his chance as manager.

This completely invalidates your argument.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Strikes me he isn't nearly as honorable as it was made out.

He will go over there with Steve Kean type weasel words (as we see often in his interviews directed to Pune) and come back with a new contract and not a real care if we go up or not anytime soon.

I know that line of thought offends people but it's how I see it.

I could put that aside if he was a good manager but that combined with his inability to keep most of us interested or the team on track to success means I can't wait till he goes.

Re: bold. I don't know about that as I don't know the guy, but it has always struck me as odd that Bowyer is one of the few that survived the ongoing cull at the club despite everyone else being potted. This means he got on fabulously well with everyone including higher management and his immediate peers for the last 5 years or so irrespective of the revolving managerial and playing door and the lying, spin, cheating, self-serving, greed, backstabbing, money grabbing culture inherent and prevelant at the club in all its forms during that period.

An honourable guy with amazing social skills able to get on with everyone at all times? Possibly.

Or someone protecting his own interests, currying favour with all who arrive with one eye ultimately on the end game and the ultimate prize. Mmm.

My view is that he is far cuter than many think and now skilled at playing this particular game, which is hardly suprising having watched Kean play it perfectly to millionaire status.

[Gav]

Forget about who you actually wanted in charge, you just said that Bowyer earned his chance as manager.

This completely invalidates your argument.

In venkys eyes he did, but then again so did ***** ****.......

[K-Hod]

I think this idea of Bowyer earning the chance to manage us is complete nonsense. Things are different under a caretaker manager (think supply teacher at school).

It should have been a case of 'thanks for being caretaker manager, we'll find someone permanent now, back to the academy Mr Bowyer'.

But, no, this is Venky's, they just couldn't be assed to find an actual manager, or have the executive board do so for them.....

[RevidgeBlue]

Everything was set for Bowyer in the summer, granted no major signings in, but he kept hold of ''HIS'' squad, Gestede, Rhodes, Hanley, Marshall and Cairney all stayed despite supposed interest. Yet by the middle of February our season was over!

The cup run has masked a multitude of problems.

There's the situation brilliantly and succinctly reduced to three sentences.

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

Yawn, more conspiracy claptrap.

Not buying that at all as if someone else were picking the team you'd think the same players would be being picked every week, not different players rotated in and out of the side on a match by match basis seemingly to keep them happy.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Agreed with everything except your remarks re Rhodes. All he's good at is scoring goals... What a shame ey?

I think people are harsh on JR. No one had these complaints last season or the season before when we weren't so focused on hoofball. Rhodes isn't going to win battles with 6'5 centre halves. Hell, even Gestede is suffering with this at times as our lump-it tactics get found out. I think he gets a hard time, especially since he's actually decent when the ball is played into feet. He always looks to collect it, lay it wide and move. He's our top scorer and has also assisted more than anyone else with the exception of Conway, Marshall and Cairney. Our top assister (Marshall/Marshypoo with 6) has only assisted two more than Rhodes.

People forget, without Rhodes, we would be in League One. Bowyer didn't keep us up in 2013, Rhodes did. In our first Champ season when he bagged 27, the closest to him was Rochina and Dunn on 5 goals. Had we signed a 15 goal a season striker we'd have been relegated.

No its not a shame. It is pleasing he is a very clinical (baby-lining) striker. However I am much more concerned about the team, all the players and its performance, not wrapped up in the efforts of one individual player. Some fans get all misty eyed he scores over 20 goals a season as we finish mid-table yet again. For me its largely irrelevant who scores as long as the team wins and the 8 million and 40k per week waxed on him has been a total waste of money when taken in a wider context.

Ah, hoofball is the problem for Rhodes this season is it? But when he scored 27 goals it wasn't? So the entire team must have been geared up to getting the best out of Jordan as we flirted with relegation that season. As long as JR is doing well thats all that matters....

Rhodes kept us up singlehandedly? He must be some player. See my comment above. Rhodes obviously didn't keep us up all on his lonesome. Neither did Bowyer. Someone must have passed to him, crossed for him, or made space for him to create the chance to score. Maybe even protected the lead he gave? You win and lose as a team as I imagine you already know.