[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Stuart]

To be honest Rev I wouldn't have put any youngster on the pitch on Saturday. The crowd would have booed any misplaced pass and it could have totally destroyed their confidence. Remember how Wilcox was treated when he first came into the team, it wasn't good. Lowe and Hanley get a fair amount of stick for any error.

In truth, many of our most promising youngsters are still quite new to Under-21 football and certainly not ready for the first team at the moment. Mahoney, Green, Lenihan and O'Sullivan are the ones most likely to get a run this season. Rittenberg has gone backwards and I suspect will be on his way in the summer. Raya is an excellent goalkeeping prospect.

Well it didn't do him too much harm, did it?

In all seriousness, I don't believe any of our youngsters would be boo'd. I think people would love to see them get a run out in the last few dead rubber games.

[den]

So whilst the vast majoirty have answered your questions, even though you ignored some of the answers, lets try and have you do the same den

1) Have Venkys made 1 decent decision in 5yrs of being here?

2) What evidence is their that they'll get the next one right?

No problem Gav.

1) for me no. However for you they have got two decisions right - and on the managerial front as well. Firstly, they sacked Allardyce, which is what you and many fans wanted -and secondly they intend to keep Bowyer. So your basically contradicting your own argument that they've got every managerial decision wrong. There's two they've got right for you.

2) how can there be evidence of a decision not made yet?

So, let's recap. You didn't want him appointed, but now want to keep him even though you don't believe he'll get us promoted, - which is what you say you want?

Strewth. Its easy for most. They want to go up, don't believe it will happen under Bowyer based on what they've seen so far. So they would change manager. What's hard about that?

[Parsonblue]

That's fine but you've shrewdly worded "return to what we were" omitting the term "a Premier League club". That should be Venkys aim. Once they depart we will have ZERO chance of that anyway.

That's what I meant Stuart, to return to the Premier League.

[Stuart]

That's what I meant Stuart, to return to the Premier League.

If you were plotting a promotion charge (as the season ticket paraphernalia states each season) how would you go about it?

Secondly, if Bowyer left, what kind of manager would you want to replace him, assuming the current squad can be kept together?

[thenodrog]

Anyone else noticed GB's habit of turning away from the pitch and looking up towards the directors' box?

It's where his wife sits. Don't think she was there on Sat.

[Gav]

No problem Gav.

1) for me no. However for you they have got two decisions right - and on the managerial front as well. Firstly, they sacked Allardyce, which is what you and many fans wanted -and secondly they intend to keep Bowyer. So your basically contradicting your own argument that they've got every managerial decision wrong. There's two they've got right for you.

2) how can there be evidence of a decision not made yet?

So, let's recap. You didn't want him appointed, but now want to keep him even though you don't believe he'll get us promoted, - which is what you say you want?

Strewth. Its easy for most. They want to go up, don't believe it will happen under Bowyer based on what they've seen so far. So they would change manager. What's hard about that?

If only everything in this world was black and white den, you know as well as I do that other factors are at play here which makes all the decisions we're talking about more complicated than just a simple yes/no.

I can debate the subjects with you all night, but you're not accepting a different point of view, so sadly I see no real point.

[thenodrog]

Agreed with everything except your remarks re Rhodes. All he's good at is scoring goals... What a shame ey?

I think people are harsh on JR. No one had these complaints last season or the season before when we weren't so focused on hoofball. Rhodes isn't going to win battles with 6'5 centre halves. Hell, even Gestede is suffering with this at times as our lump-it tactics get found out. I think he gets a hard time, especially since he's actually decent when the ball is played into feet. He always looks to collect it, lay it wide and move. He's our top scorer and has also assisted more than anyone else with the exception of Conway, Marshall and Cairney. Our top assister (Marshall/Marshypoo with 6) has only assisted two more than Rhodes.

People forget, without Rhodes, we would be in League One. Bowyer didn't keep us up in 2013, Rhodes did. In our first Champ season when he bagged 27, the closest to him was Rochina and Dunn on 5 goals. Had we signed a 15 goal a season striker we'd have been relegated.

Whatever. Truth is it's odds on that we'll just have to get used to being without him (and a number of others) soon.

A older guy I was speaking to has had a season ticket since the early 60s said on the way out enough is enough this season is his last with the current setup.

He gets about that bugger! Everybody seems to know him.

Tell you what athlete, if he's been around since the 60's ask him how many times that he has said those words.

[Amo]

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

Wasn't long ago that you were remaining tight-lipped, sitting on your pile of insider info for fear of upsetting the applecart. Now you're posting wild, unsubstantiated rumours. Are you missing the limelight?

[thenodrog]

I understand this and perhaps it will work out, but what would make them rethink. I know they don't care about fans but surely when there are fewer coming through the tills and then the turnstiles, they will have to realise. Perhaps the wool is being pulled over their eyes currently by those who do attendance figures, but they must ask at some point to see sales figures for season tickets. I know nowt about running a company but I would. It's one of the first things I'd ask about because season ticket sales are a clear indication of long term customer satisfaction. If you can keep long term customers happy then you stand a chance of attracting new people too. A fuller ewood must give a better chance of better things for the team and the club. If it's obvious to business idiots like me, why not to them?

Hey! How about organising a boycott of Season Tickets gumboots? ST's hide dissatisfaction from the owners. It'll cost a bit more of course but how about everybody buying individual match tickets? That way attendances will better reflect form and serve to incentivise the entire club. If the club is doing badly attendances will immediately reflect such and heads will roll, and if it is doing well the gate receipts will be higher because of the increased match day ticket cost. Death or glory.

[thenodrog]

Makes me laugh just how many people were 'not renewing their season tickets under Allardyce', now saying the same thing about Bowyer and his brand of football. Deary me.

I must say I find supreme irony in you 'liking' this Gav. You hated Allardyce so much and to the extent you gave up going away first and then I seem to rem gave up going altogether.

[gumboots]

Me, organise a boycott? I can't organise anything, Gordon. However, I don't think we'd need to organise anything because I think the majority of st holders I know aren't bothering anyway.

[Gav]

I must say I find supreme irony in you 'liking' this Gav. You hated Allardyce so much and to the extent you gave up going away first and then I seem to rem gave up going altogether.

I'm using an iphone for the site at the moment, sometimes you 'like' things by mistake when scrolling down the page.

I never gave up under Allardyce, I gave up under ****, it was either that or serve a prison term.

[thenodrog]

Yes nice try Toppers

They should have appointed Harry Redknap (with a big financial incentive) or Ian Holloway at the time IMO, but Bowyer deserved his chance and they gave it to him.

So you're wrong I'm afraid.

I'm surprised you are admitting to that. A dodgepot spiv who makes the Fat Controller look like Mr Honest and a rather odd chap who has had one good season on his entire cv.

[Athlete]

Me, organise a boycott? I can't organise anything, Gordon. However, I don't think we'd need to organise anything because I think the majority of st holders I know aren't bothering anyway.

This is my point more and more are voting with their feet.. GB still talking about the play offs he's basically insulting the fans intelligence..

Money is pretty tight in this town and lot of fans are on poor wages, so you can safely say unless something drastically changes more and more will drift away sick of having the P@@@ taken out of them by the owners joke directors and the whole structure as a whole

[Gav]

I'm surprised you are admitting to that. A dodgepot spiv who makes the Fat Controller look like Mr Honest and a rather odd chap who has had one good season on his entire cv.

Keeping it real gordon, no point telling fibs to suit an agenda I'm sure you'll agree.

Last thing I want is Tris popping up and finding all my posts supporting Arry when I've denied it

[imy9]

Keeping it real gordon, no point telling fibs to suit an agenda I'm sure you'll agree.

Last thing I want is Tris popping up and finding all my posts supporting Arry when I've denied it

Strewth Gav do you remember that? Three years worth of quotes on John Williams and Jim. We all have skeletons in the closet about what we have sent but that was MB gold.

[thenodrog]

This is my point more and more are voting with their feet.. GB still talking about the play offs he's basically insulting the fans intelligence..

Money is pretty tight in this town and lot of fans are on poor wages, so you can safely say unless something drastically changes more and more will drift away sick of having the P@@@ taken out of them by the owners joke directors and the whole structure as a whole

£200!!!! It's a pittance and the worst thing is everybody has got used to it as I predicted at the time. Anybody citing the cost is simply using it as a convenient excuse to disguise the fact that they are glory hunters.

[Parsonblue]

If you were plotting a promotion charge (as the season ticket paraphernalia states each season) how would you go about it?

Secondly, if Bowyer left, what kind of manager would you want to replace him, assuming the current squad can be kept together?

To be honest Stuart I think I would be more up front than to suggest a promotion charge. With the embargo in place it would be an impossible sell. The embargo restricts the number of players you can bring in, limits you to free transfers and loans and restricts the wages you can play those players. As I've said many times, promotion has to be a long term goal but getting the running costs and debt down are of paramount importance if the club is to be in a position to mount a promotion push in the future. In the short term, although no club would come out and spell it out, I believe there will be more pain before any gain. Players will leave and need replacing from a very small pool from which to chose. Young players, with the odd older head will need to be recruited for very little money. I see the likes of Henley, Olsson, O'Sullivan, Lenihan etc. becoming regulars in the side. I would also start to look abroad for players more than we have done during the past eighteen months.

If Bowyer left then I would want a manager who was good with younger players, good at working with little or no money and a manager who was primarily a coach rather than a cheque book manager. I would be looking in the lower divisions for a younger manager who had shown he could operate on a shoestring budget. There are also a couple of more experienced guys at that level who might be worth a look - Paul Cook and Leam Richardson have done a decent job with Chesterfield whilst I notice Mike Newell is coaching at Stanley. I certainly wouldn't be wanting someone like Holloway

[yoda]

Wasn't long ago that you were remaining tight-lipped, sitting on your pile of insider info for fear of upsetting the applecart. Now you're posting wild, unsubstantiated rumours. Are you missing the limelight?

Look at GB's selections and it stands out a mile that interference is in play, the current Ewood incumbents have a hand in it too,

Unfair on GB in my opinion

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

We've never been in the situation where nobody cared at senior level in the club.

This.

So true it's absolute torture.

[Gav]

Strewth Gav do you remember that? Three years worth of quotes on John Williams and Jim. We all have skeletons in the closet about what we have sent but that was MB gold.

Running scared of being Tris'd, nobody wants that, so I always keep it at the back of my mind.

[Stuart]

£200!!!! It's a pittance and the worst thing is everybody has got used to it as I predicted at the time. Anybody citing the cost is simply using it as a convenient excuse to disguise the fact that they are glory hunters.

Don't (fully) agree. Football is an addiction and like all good "dealers" JW knew that by selling cheap and increasing the cost he had the product, the people, and the marketing, to get people hooked. It was a great combination. (Still makes me weep when you think how much money Venkys could have saved, nay, made if they had just stuck to the Trust model of injecting £5m per season and letting them get on with it).

The problem now is that the product has been cut with so much crap that it's no longer addictive and people are weening themselves off enough to see through the marketing as a pack of lies.

Obviously everyone has an upper limit but, by and large, people are willing to pay once they feel they are getting value, and can be convinced to live with 'reasonable' year on year increases if it's something they enjoy.

Sadly no more.

[Gav]

£200!!!! It's a pittance and the worst thing is everybody has got used to it as I predicted at the time. Anybody citing the cost is simply using it as a convenient excuse to disguise the fact that they are glory hunters.

Spoken like a true Tory, we're alright so everybody else must be.

Why do we have food banks in most towns Gordon? yes, because people are skint!

[Stuart]

To be honest Stuart I think I would be more up front than to suggest a promotion charge. With the embargo in place it would be an impossible sell. The embargo restricts the number of players you can bring in, limits you to free transfers and loans and restricts the wages you can play those players. As I've said many times, promotion has to be a long term goal but getting the running costs and debt down are of paramount importance if the club is to be in a position to mount a promotion push in the future. In the short term, although no club would come out and spell it out, I believe there will be more pain before any gain. Players will leave and need replacing from a very small pool from which to chose. Young players, with the odd older head will need to be recruited for very little money. I see the likes of Henley, Olsson, O'Sullivan, Lenihan etc. becoming regulars in the side. I would also start to look abroad for players more than we have done during the past eighteen months.

If Bowyer left then I would want a manager who was good with younger players, good at working with little or no money and a manager who was primarily a coach rather than a cheque book manager. I would be looking in the lower divisions for a younger manager who had shown he could operate on a shoestring budget. There are also a couple of more experienced guys at that level who might be worth a look - Paul Cook and Leam Richardson have done a decent job with Chesterfield whilst I notice Mike Newell is coaching at Stanley. I certainly wouldn't be wanting someone like Holloway

Fair points, thanks for replying so honestly. I guess we have to draw a line under the last two years and write them off essentially.

We made a decision (or had a decision made for us) to not attempt to get promoted but to try to stick a thumb in the whale-sized leak. Despite finding himself and the boy in the dyke scenario, by the fact that he continued to talk about promotion and play-offs in the way that he did throughout this season and last, it's difficult to see him as totally innocent.

I'm not convinced though that Holloway is a chequebook manager. What he did with Blackpool shows that he can motivate a very ordinary group of players. I'm not sure Dyche threw money at promotion either but, again, has the motivational and man-management skills to turn ordinary players into extraordinary ones. So I'm not sure we have to go down the completely untried route. What Warburton has done should really put him high on any shortlist we might have. Mike Newell is an interesting one but do we really need to go down such a high odds gamble? Richardson or Newell simply make sticking with Bowyer more of an even option.

For me, we are absolutely crying out for a proper man-manager and absolutely not a coach. Granted we need someone to coach them but the also need organising and motivating. Kean, Appleton and Bowyer are all coaches. Berg is the one person who I would qualify as a manager and I think he's doing quite well at Warsaw.

[Athlete]

£200!!!! It's a pittance and the worst thing is everybody has got used to it as I predicted at the time. Anybody citing the cost is simply using it as a convenient excuse to disguise the fact that they are glory hunters.

Says the clown who stopped going what a super fan you are ...

spoken like a tory...

My point is the cost of ST or match by match.. When fans are disgruntled and being taken for mugs if you're struggling that cash can be better spent elsewhere