[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Tom]

To be honest Stuart I think I would be more up front than to suggest a promotion charge. With the embargo in place it would be an impossible sell. The embargo restricts the number of players you can bring in, limits you to free transfers and loans and restricts the wages you can play those players. As I've said many times, promotion has to be a long term goal but getting the running costs and debt down are of paramount importance if the club is to be in a position to mount a promotion push in the future. In the short term, although no club would come out and spell it out, I believe there will be more pain before any gain. Players will leave and need replacing from a very small pool from which to chose. Young players, with the odd older head will need to be recruited for very little money. I see the likes of Henley, Olsson, O'Sullivan, Lenihan etc. becoming regulars in the side. I would also start to look abroad for players more than we have done during the past eighteen months.

If Bowyer left then I would want a manager who was good with younger players, good at working with little or no money and a manager who was primarily a coach rather than a cheque book manager. I would be looking in the lower divisions for a younger manager who had shown he could operate on a shoestring budget. There are also a couple of more experienced guys at that level who might be worth a look - Paul Cook and Leam Richardson have done a decent job with Chesterfield whilst I notice Mike Newell is coaching at Stanley. I certainly wouldn't be wanting someone like Holloway

With that being said what would you consider a failure on Bowyers part next season? Just relegation or flirting with it?

[Athlete]

With that being said what would you consider a failure on Bowyers part next season? Just relegation or flirting with it?

PB is always going to be on his friends side...

But unfortunately it's not happening for his friend

[blueboy3333]

I guess the questions for his supporters are -

do you want promotion, if not, why not?

If you do, what have you seen to make you think that he's the man to get us there?

Gav, parson, Chaddy, Blueboy. Etc, etc......................

question

Wiil Bowyer take us up?

haven't got a clue.

Have there been signs he'll take us up?

no because we're too inconsistent.

Do i want promotion?

of course.

Do i trust the owners to know what they're doing if they replaced Bowyer?

A great big NO.

It seems to be that last question that people ignore when calling for change.

Do YOU trust Venky's to get it right if they replace Bowyer?

answer

Only Parson has even tried to answer both questions

Noone, except Parson (oh and Abbey) have even tried to answer the questions Gav.

No problem Gav.

1) for me no. However for you they have got two decisions right - and on the managerial front as well. Firstly, they sacked Allardyce, which is what you and many fans wanted -and secondly they intend to keep Bowyer. So your basically contradicting your own argument that they've got every managerial decision wrong. There's two they've got right for you.

2) how can there be evidence of a decision not made yet?

So, let's recap. You didn't want him appointed, but now want to keep him even though you don't believe he'll get us promoted, - which is what you say you want?

Strewth. Its easy for most. They want to go up, don't believe it will happen under Bowyer based on what they've seen so far. So they would change manager. What's hard about that?

So your logic is as follows:

you have no faith in Venky's finding a suitable replacement who would get us promoted but you still want Bowyer sacked? By extension you want us to either stay as we are with a new manager or go back to relegation fodder like before Bowyer was appointed with a new manager. Not much point in sacking him then is there. You've not thought it through have you, and as you say yourself, it isn't really that hard.

[donnermeat]

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

Well, only a non-football person would put that lummox Brown in the team over Rudy. So maybe!

Heck I would prefer Varney to Brown.

Edit- Brown in the team, full stop!

[chaddyrovers]

Give over 47er, he's answered the question several times, you're just ignoring it.

I have replied several times to that type of question over the last few months

I suspect that Gary will be heading out to Pune over the international break, it will be the first opportunity that he has had to have face to face talks with Mrs D since last November.

I would be majorly surprised if she decides to sack him now or over the summer, so it will be a case of over the summer trying to get the club out of the transfer embargo and working on loan deals. The last 3 weeks the scouts who have until now almost exclusively been concentrating on UK talent have been on European scouting missions to Scandinavia, Austria and Germany. Again it suggests that Gary has already begun the planning for next season and must be confident of retaining his position.

We can discuss him being sacked until we are blue in the face, it will not matter a jot what we think as Venky's and Mrs D in particular will do as they please. As I and others have said previously the board at Ewood Park is nothing more than a rubber stamping body, they have no real power or the desire to put forward suggestions to the owners.

I wonder if Bowyer has already been told he will be there for next season. I'm sure him and Mrs D will discuss the summer budget and the plan for next season with finances discuss aswell.

Kamy, can I asked 2 questions please

1. if Rhodes and Gestede were sold in the summer, would the embargo be lift in the summer?

2. does Mrs D look at the club as 2 different departments, Shaw in charge of the Administration side of the Club at Ewood Park and Bowyer in charge of the football side of the club at Brockhall?

I can think of just one reason why the owners persist with Bowyer, which IMO is the same reason they stuck with Kean

They are still getting the team sheet the night before the game and amending it accordingly

If this is the case , then we are well b truly goosed

I can't see that being the case at the club nowadays.

Try looking at it from another point Tom. Take the view that Mrs. Desai simply took advice on buying the club and everything that followed from a series of agents. The result has been a catastrophic collapse in their investment which has cost them fortunes. She then puts Shebby in charge but that costs her just as much. She stumbles, almost by accident, on Bowyer, and finds someone who doesn't want to spend millions but wants to opt for a longer term approach of rebuilding the club from the ground up. To return to what we were - a trading club where a player is sold to fund bringing others in. To put money into the Academy - which they have done - and try to develop more of our own. Of course, there is a debt that needs to be address and running costs have to be brought under control because of FFP and the embargo. But compared to what has gone on before it is no surprise that she is more receptive to Bowyer's plans for the future than simply throwing more good money after bad. Clearly the owner and Desai have a good working relationship and from what was written about her when they took over her dealings with Bowyer would mirror how she deals with her other businesses in that she deals with those on the shop floor rather than guys in suits.

I think the Rovers owners got burned by agents and now it appears that the owners don't talk to agents or some previous advisors.

Shebby cost the club a lot of money for sure.

Bowyer doesn't want to spend loads of money and wants to rebuild the club by bringing through players from the academy, developing players and improving players

To be honest Stuart I think I would be more up front than to suggest a promotion charge. With the embargo in place it would be an impossible sell. The embargo restricts the number of players you can bring in, limits you to free transfers and loans and restricts the wages you can play those players. As I've said many times, promotion has to be a long term goal but getting the running costs and debt down are of paramount importance if the club is to be in a position to mount a promotion push in the future. In the short term, although no club would come out and spell it out, I believe there will be more pain before any gain. Players will leave and need replacing from a very small pool from which to chose. Young players, with the odd older head will need to be recruited for very little money. I see the likes of Henley, Olsson, O'Sullivan, Lenihan etc. becoming regulars in the side. I would also start to look abroad for players more than we have done during the past eighteen months.

If Bowyer left then I would want a manager who was good with younger players, good at working with little or no money and a manager who was primarily a coach rather than a cheque book manager. I would be looking in the lower divisions for a younger manager who had shown he could operate on a shoestring budget. There are also a couple of more experienced guys at that level who might be worth a look - Paul Cook and Leam Richardson have done a decent job with Chesterfield whilst I notice Mike Newell is coaching at Stanley. I certainly wouldn't be wanting someone like Holloway

totally agree with that ParsonBlue. very well written. (wish I could put over my argument so well as you can)

I expect that with Rovers scouts now scouting in Scandinavia, Austria and Germany now, we could well being seeing that happening to the squad.

I wouldn't want Holloway here.

If Bowyer was to leave then I too would look to the lower leagues for a manager who can operate on tight budget, bring through younger players and developing players. Managers like Keith Hill, Dean Smith(Walsall), Sean O'Driscoll or Wycombe manager Gareth Ainsworth

[Gav]

Well, only a non-football person would put that lummox Brown in the team over Rudy. So maybe!

Heck I would prefer Varney to Brown.

Edit- Brown in the team, full stop!

Only thing I can think of is Bowyers still not happy that Gestede refused to play during the transfer window, either that or he's giving Brown games because he's lead striker next season.

[chaddyrovers]

For me, we are absolutely crying out for a proper man-manager and absolutely not a coach. Granted we need someone to coach them but the also need organising and motivating. Kean, Appleton and Bowyer are all coaches. Berg is the one person who I would qualify as a manager and I think he's doing quite well at Warsaw.

who would you like to see come in then Stuart? someone like McCarthy I guess?

[thenodrog]

Don't (fully) agree. Football is an addiction and like all good "dealers" JW knew that by selling cheap and increasing the cost he had the product, the people, and the marketing, to get people hooked. It was a great combination. (Still makes me weep when you think how much money Venkys could have saved, nay, made if they had just stuck to the Trust model of injecting £5m per season and letting them get on with it).

The problem now is that the product has been cut with so much crap that it's no longer addictive and people are weening themselves off enough to see through the marketing as a pack of lies.

Obviously everyone has an upper limit but, by and large, people are willing to pay once they feel they are getting value, and can be convinced to live with 'reasonable' year on year increases if it's something they enjoy.

Sadly no more.

5M pa with no return!!! Why on earth should that need to happen to run a football team? Small wonder It took so long to offload.

[Mike Graham]

Has GB gone yet?

[thenodrog]

Spoken like a true Tory, we're alright so everybody else must be.

Why do we have food banks in most towns Gordon? yes, because people are skint!

Rubbish. Free anything will attract a crowd around here. If the town cannot fund a football team then it pretty soon wont have one cos no one else will.

btw Do food banks do lobster thermidore?

[Mike Graham]

Rubbish. Free anything will attract a crowd around here. If the town cannot fund a football team then it pretty soon wont have one cos no one else will.

btw Do food banks do lobster thermidore?

Gordon.....tinned food please! Try lobster bisque instead.

[chaddyrovers]

Has GB gone yet?

looks like Bowyer will be in charge for next season

[thenodrog]

Well, only a non-football person would put that lummox Brown in the team over Rudy. So maybe!

I championed Gestede over Rhodes last season from Jan forward. However anybody can see that in recent months Gestede was not the same player as he was last spring, he was playing poorly and appeared to me to have an attitude issue. His body language was awful and thats why GB has rotated them imo. It does seem to be working too as Gestede appears much more enthusiastic, although tbh I'd imagine it's because he's put himself in the shop window.

[Mike Graham]

I championed Gestede over Rhodes last season from Jan forward. However anybody can see that in recent months Gestede was not the same player as he was last spring, he was playing poorly and appeared to me to have an attitude issue. His body language was awful and thats why GB has rotated them imo. It does seem to be working too as Gestede appears much more enthusiastic, although tbh I'd imagine it's because he's put himself in the shop window.

Poor old Gestede will perk up for the Liverpool replay with all those managers watching on. Mrs D will probably put a stimulant in his pre match cuppa.

[thenodrog]

Gordon.....tinned food please! Try lobster bisque instead.

Poor Gav. Do you know PB I've a feeling that he's struggling to afford lobster more than once a week in these hard times under the tories.

Poor old Gestede will perk up for the Liverpool replay with all those managers watching on. Mrs D will probably put a stimulant in his pre match cuppa.

Nailed on. I'd like to see King back for that game too.

[Mike Graham]

Poor Gav. Do you know PB I've a feeling that he's struggling to afford lobster more than once a week in these hard times under the tories.

He was tucking into his peanuts along with his pint last Saturday evening.

[Mercer]

Football is a simple game.

The simple facts are a manager makes or breaks a club and, IMV, Bowyer is a crap manager. Sadly, I think he has too much influence with Pune and therefore we've seen a systematic dumbing down of our footballing infrastructure.

Allied to the fact that, again IMV, we've naïve and incompetent owners and a severely 'under managed' Exec Management, who I would not let run a school tuck shop never mind a £30million+ turnover business, then we are well and truly goosed.

[DE.]

Only thing I can think of is Bowyers still not happy that Gestede refused to play during the transfer window, either that or he's giving Brown games because he's lead striker next season.

Shudder

[thenodrog]

Says the clown who stopped going what a super fan you are ...

spoken like a tory...

My point is the cost of ST or match by match.. When fans are disgruntled and being taken for mugs if you're struggling that cash can be better spent elsewhere

Problem that you have with that theory is that you don't know whether it's worth it until the games over.

btw Have you ever considered that Blackburn's current issues of food banks, unemployment, segregated schools, drugs, grooming and a town centre that attracts no one after dusk might just be down to generations of Labour control or is that simply not a factor in your world?

[Mike Graham]

Only thing I can think of is Bowyers still not happy that Gestede refused to play during the transfer window, either that or he's giving Brown games because he's lead striker next season.

I hope Brown is better at scoring in bed than he is on the pitch.

I can see him going a full season without netting a goal.

[Athlete]

Problem that you have with that theory is that you don't know whether it's worth it until the games over.

btw Have you ever considered that Blackburn's current issues of food banks, unemployment, segregated schools, drugs, grooming and a town centre that attracts no one after dusk might just be down to generations of Labour control or is that simply not a factor in your world?

ha ha the person who stopped going mr preacher man............

as for politics I dont go for that

[donnermeat]

Only thing I can think of is Bowyers still not happy that Gestede refused to play during the transfer window, either that or he's giving Brown games because he's lead striker next season.

Shudder at the thought!

[47er]

So whilst the vast majoirty have answered your questions, even though you ignored some of the answers, lets try and have you do the same den

1) Have Venkys made 1 decent decision in 5yrs of being here?

2) What evidence is their that they'll get the next one right?

1) Yes--kept Rhodes.

2)none. However on this basis we should never part with Gary because we will get somebody worse, and we should hope that Venkys will own us forever because "who would be stupid enough to buy a club in the state our's is in?" Surely only a bigger set of idiots and shysters?

So lets stay as we are, the only issue being should we cut our throats now or die gradually?

[47er]

Try reading what I post. The team played poorly on Saturday and the crowd voiced their opinions and rightly so. However, it wasn't the day to introduce two young lads. So what you are saying is that it is fine for the crowd to give stick to any player that they don't particularly think ought to be in the team? So if Mahoney and Lenihan were introduced, did poorly, it would be fine to boo them?

Its never the day to introduce young lads apparently.

[47er]

It's where his wife sits. Don't think she was there on Sat.

Shrewd lady!