[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[47er]

Can't like this post enough

Me and Parson differ on our views currently but I have all the time in the world for his opinion as it is genuine with reason to it

I disagree with Parson (a lot!) but agree with your post and Kamy's. I guess we are all a bit hard on each other right now.

All I can say is that it is very hard watching something you love dying while you can't do anything to prevent it.

I've pledged to the Trust and hope I have to cough up someday soon!

[47er]

Indeed you have 47er.

btw re younger people and resources. People can find more on a search engine in 5 minutes than in an afternoon in a reference library!

If you want to reconsider your opinion why not visit Blackburn Library and when you do talk to the staff? (I do know a someone very well who has worked there for many years) The place is now just a den of alky's, druggies, and homosexuals who terrorise and threaten the staff if they dare approach them. I am NOT kidding!

What a delightful picture you present Theno. I don't think I'll bother thanks!

Interesting that you should say there is a den of homosexuals who terrorise and threaten the staff. Are they the same as alkys and druggies in your view? They are certainly not in mine. How do you distinguish them?

[yoda]

Or, y'know, we have a dithering manager who doesn't know his best team?

Just keep wearing the blinkers

[Rover_Shaun]

Maybe you need to narrow your mind in order to identify them 47er?

[adsfortheblues]

Nonsense as usual. Students at the best universities spend most of their time in the library.

Correct, whilst you can reference electronic sources, such as google books, if you want good marks, you read books.

[thenodrog]

Maybe you need to narrow your mind in order to identify them 47er?

And the last time you were in?

[den]

If only everything in this world was black and white den, you know as well as I do that other factors are at play here which makes all the decisions we're talking about more complicated than just a simple yes/no.

I can debate the subjects with you all night, but you're not accepting a different point of view, so sadly I see no real point.

it is black and white Gav. If you don't think a manager is good enough, then you want someone else in, to try to improve the situation don't you?

As for the fans who only want to keep hold of him because they're scared of change, well I reckon confused of Pune are causing some of our fans to become confused of Blackburn.

We can't change anything Mrs D decides to do, but we can and should voice our opinions anywhere we can.

[thenodrog]

den apologies if I might have missed it but have you responded to posts #912 and #913 on here? Not many others have.

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/30364-gary-bowyer-discussion/?p=1519760

[Gav]

Poor Gav. Do you know PB I've a feeling that he's struggling to afford lobster more than once a week in these hard times under the tories.

.

It's a shame you feel the need to attack posters for simply schooling you on the what goes on in real people's lives and not that pleasington bubble you live in.

[yoda]

I suspect that Gary will be heading out to Pune over the international break, it will be the first opportunity that he has had to have face to face talks with Mrs D since last November.

I would be majorly surprised if she decides to sack him now or over the summer, so it will be a case of over the summer trying to get the club out of the transfer embargo and working on loan deals. The last 3 weeks the scouts who have until now almost exclusively been concentrating on UK talent have been on European scouting missions to Scandinavia, Austria and Germany. Again it suggests that Gary has already begun the planning for next season and must be confident of retaining his position.

We can discuss him being sacked until we are blue in the face, it will not matter a jot what we think as Venky's and Mrs D in particular will do as they please. As I and others have said previously the board at Ewood Park is nothing more than a rubber stamping body, they have no real power or the desire to put forward suggestions to the owners.

I thought we were all Blue (and white) in the face

re this bit

"As I and others have said previously the board at Ewood Park is nothing more than a rubber stamping body, they have no real power or the desire to put forward suggestions to the owners"

They are rubber stamping their pay cheques and holding back progress, trying to save coppers by interfering in selections and inhibiting the chance of promotion.

The Nobber and Scouser need to go NOW

[A cup of beans]

Bowyer doesn't want to spend loads of money and wants to rebuild the club by bringing through players from the academy, developing players and improving players

Another strange statement. In Bowyer's tenure so far the opposite has been true.

[Gav]

it is black and white Gav. If you don't think a manager is good enough, then you want someone else in, to try to improve the situation don't you?

As for the fans who only want to keep hold of him because they're scared of change, well I reckon confused of Pune are causing some of our fans to become confused of Blackburn.

We can't change anything Mrs D decides to do, but we can and should voice our opinions anywhere we can.

It's differing opinions den, that's all, it used to be what made this site thrive.

I don't want an Appleton type appointment again who will have us relegated by January. You'd be happy for Bowyer to be sacked and anyone appointed.

[den]

It's differing opinions den, that's all, it used to be what made this site thrive.

I don't want an Appleton type appointment again who will have us relegated by January. You'd be happy for Bowyer to be sacked and anyone appointed.

That's ridiculous Gav.

I want a manager to come in and run the team like it should be run. That means not running off to India every couple of months, not falling into this idea that final third entries, or squad value actually means anything. I want someone who will run the club as the manager of every other club in the football league would run it.

Now you'll say it won't happen. Well we don't know do we? If we get another Kean/Bowyer replica then I'll be on here complaining again. It's the only way forward Gav. You know that's right and I know that's right, so why not say it? Should a football fan ever accept anything short of what's the best for the club? No, I don't think so.

den apologies if I might have missed it but have you responded to posts #912 and #913 on here? Not many others have.

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/30364-gary-bowyer-discussion/?p=1519760

Will do later.

[gumboots]

I don't think that's true Gav but there is a definite chance we will get worse. However, there is a chance that we might get an improvement. If nothing changes well slide slowly downwards anyway. Surely rolling the dice is becoming more important all the time. We CANNOT continue as we are. Fans are giving up attending. They are fed up with the general air of apathy from the club, the general acceptance of mediocrity, the sheer boredom and frustration of match days. There's not a lot we can change, but we can, like 50% of league clubs, change the manager or the management and coaching set up. It's a risk, a huge risk. We all know that but doing nothing is risky too. What do we want? To give it another try or to stick with the status quo? One might lead to disaster fast. The other will lead to a slow and painful fading away. I'd love to be able to get behind bowyer. I'd love him to be the man for us. But I can't see it. I've read what PB says. I know he watches a lot more than I do. I respect his views. But I also know what I see with my own 2 eyes. More and more empty seats. Worse performances. Players looking clueless. Slow to think and slow to move. They don't take responsibility. They don't look motivated. So, whilst I don't really want to change and take the risk, there's a large part of me that feels changes have to be made. I wish it was black and white as it rapidly became with Kean, but it isn't.

[Gav]

That's ridiculous Gav.

I want a manager to come in and run the team like it should be run. That means not running off to India every couple of months, not falling into this idea that final third entries, or squad value actually means anything. I want someone who will run the club as the manager of every other club in the football league would run it.

Now you'll say it won't happen. Well we don't know do we? If we get another Kean/Bowyer replica then I'll be on here complaining again. It's the only way forward Gav. You know that's right and I know that's right, so why not say it? Should a football fan ever accept anything short of what's the best for the club? No, I don't think so.

Under any other circumstances I'd be with you on all those points den, but Venkys record on managerial appointments is awful, they'll in my opinion give Craig Short the job or appoint somone cheaper than Bowyer and probably equally as clueless.

****, Berg and Appletons reigns brought about some of the worse football I've ever seen at Ewood in over 40yrs. Now whilst Bowyers side isn't Barcelona, I'm enjoying my football again, love watching Gestede, Cairney, Marshall etc all Bowyer signings so if he stays I'll not stop going and I'd much rather have him for a 3rd season rather than have an Appleton.

I don't think that's true Gav but there is a definite chance we will get worse. However, there is a chance that we might get an improvement. If nothing changes well slide slowly downwards anyway. Surely rolling the dice is becoming more important all the time. We CANNOT continue as we are. Fans are giving up attending. They are fed up with the general air of apathy from the club, the general acceptance of mediocrity, the sheer boredom and frustration of match days. There's not a lot we can change, but we can, like 50% of league clubs, change the manager or the management and coaching set up. It's a risk, a huge risk. We all know that but doing nothing is risky too. What do we want? To give it another try or to stick with the status quo? One might lead to disaster fast. The other will lead to a slow and painful fading away. I'd love to be able to get behind bowyer. I'd love him to be the man for us. But I can't see it. I've read what PB says. I know he watches a lot more than I do. I respect his views. But I also know what I see with my own 2 eyes. More and more empty seats. Worse performances. Players looking clueless. Slow to think and slow to move. They don't take responsibility. They don't look motivated. So, whilst I don't really want to change and take the risk, there's a large part of me that feels changes have to be made. I wish it was black and white as it rapidly became with Kean, but it isn't.

History tells us that we'll more than likely get worse, in 5yrs in charge they've not appointed a decent manager, they've not made 1 decent decision, so I'm just wary of rolling that dice.

I can't really argue with the rest of your post, I agree with much of what you write gumboots.

[Rover_Shaun]

Whilst nothing in life is certain I feel that the quality of applicants, should it be put to tender, would surprise many. However every applicant will generate some negative comment because that is the nature of football and not many managers have avoided the sack at least once. The view from the outside is far detached from the reality that we all know. If you spoke to anyone within the football bubble they'd all wax lyrical about how good of a job Bowyer has done using Kean as a reference (though they said he was amazing too at the time) which instantly dismisses the last two years wandering in the desert.

Football managers are also a strange breed. Most have big ego's (just look at Big Sam who's won nowt but his head is the size of Gibraltar) and will think they can make a good fist of the job. In fact they will think they are the ONLY one who can make the job work. They are that egocentric.

Seeing the players at the club (even if you remove the front two.....nobody else will come in for anyone else given their form under the current incumbent), the clubs immense facilities, with rich owners that let you sign over 25 players coupled with a rich history who wouldn't want the job when looking in from the outside.

It would have generated great interest the last time had the club bothered rather than giving it "a right good go" (has he ever?) with Bowyer.

Unless the cut of the gib is that Bowyer has devalued the job even further during his two years of standing still?

[windymiller7]

I think a lot of people outside of this forum and Ewood would think that GB's done a great job given the preceding circus and would probably be very critical of the club if they did sack him. However, we all know the reality is that we are, at best, treading water.

I agree with your comments Shaun that the job would certainly attract quite a few surprise names probably more so this time after 2 years of 'stability' than if it'd been advertised after giving Appleton the boot.

In terms of a candidate, it just shows how things don't always go as you'd think. I reckon most of us on here would've gladly welcomed Adkins, Mackay, Holloway or McDermott but would've been rather pi$$sed with an appointment of McLaren, McCarthy or Warburton (Who? Not another rookie!)

So we're never going to get it right every time but we can at least show some ambition and attempt to improve things. I certainly can't take much more of the dog dirt that was served up on Saturday.

[mustard]

Under any other circumstances I'd be with you on all those points den, but Venkys record on managerial appointments is awful, they'll in my opinion give Craig Short the job or appoint somone cheaper than Bowyer and probably equally as clueless.

****, Berg and Appletons reigns brought about some of the worse football I've ever seen at Ewood in over 40yrs. Now whilst Bowyers side isn't Barcelona, I'm enjoying my football again, love watching Gestede, Cairney, Marshall etc all Bowyer signings so if he stays I'll not stop going and I'd much rather have him for a 3rd season rather than have an Appleton.

History tells us that we'll more than likely get worse, in 5yrs in charge they've not appointed a decent manager, they've not made 1 decent decision, so I'm just wary of rolling that dice.

I can't really argue with the rest of your post, I agree with much of what you write gumboots.

Fair play to you that you actually enjoy the football. Personally I haven't really enjoyed going to Ewood in years and after a brief spell of optimism a couple of years ago, I've found myself sick and tired of the football and everything that comes with it. I hate watching Rovers under Bowyer 90% of the time, mostly due to the hoofball, shoddy tactics, subs etc. Fair enough, history doesn't suggest Venky's would make the correct appointment but, by your own admission, Bowyer isn't the one to take us forward, so IMO we need to gamble on a change as Bowyer is likely to have us near relegation next year, assuming we lose a few players.

[Gav]

Fair play to you that you actually enjoy the football. Personally I haven't really enjoyed going to Ewood in years and after a brief spell of optimism a couple of years ago, I've found myself sick and tired of the football and everything that comes with it. I hate watching Rovers under Bowyer 90% of the time, mostly due to the hoofball, shoddy tactics, subs etc. Fair enough, history doesn't suggest Venky's would make the correct appointment but, by your own admission, Bowyer isn't the one to take us forward, so IMO we need to gamble on a change as Bowyer is likely to have us near relegation next year, assuming we lose a few players.

Rolling that dice just isn't that appealing to me at the moment mustard and yes I'd rather sit mid-table than have Craig Short managing the club or someone else with little or no experience.

Saturday was terrible, one of the worst performances I can recall in many a year, if I see more performances like that towards the end of the season, and thats a real possibility, I'll probably change my view, but for now I'll stick with Bowyer.

[den]

den apologies if I might have missed it but have you responded to posts #912 and #913 on here? Not many others have.

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/30364-gary-bowyer-discussion/?p=1519760

Your points about any manager of quality not touching rovers -

I can't answer it Gord. You may well be right, you might be wrong. The fact that we're in a mess as a club could work either way. It could put a lot of managers off, or on the other hand it could, in a perverse way be attractive in that any manager that truly believed in his own ability would see that were still seen as one of the bigger clubs in this league, with excellent facilities and fancy he could turn us around - in doing so, providing himself with a challenge and enhancing his own credibility. Throughout the dark days of third division football, when the money was hardly there to pay the milkman, we still attracted some excellent young managers. It isn't as cut and dried as you might think. There are always managers around that are on the lookout for a club. Whether they're what's needed here, none of us know.

Still, I go back to "do we stay as we are, with a manager and situation that's deteriorating fast- because we believe no one would touch us", or do we take a more positive route and try to move forward? I know what I think. Having a negative mindset of not trying to change for the better, because you're frightened of failure isn't what's needed. Particularly when the club's facing a financial abyss.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Your points about any manager of quality not touching rovers -

I can't answer it Gord. You may well be right, you might be wrong. The fact that we're in a mess as a club could work either way. It could put a lot of managers off, or on the other hand it could, in a perverse way be attractive in that any manager that truly believed in his own ability would see that were still seen as one of the bigger clubs in this league, with excellent facilities and fancy he could turn us around - in doing so, providing himself with a challenge and enhancing his own credibility. Throughout the dark days of third division football, when the money was hardly there to pay the milkman, we still attracted some excellent young managers. It isn't as cut and dried as you might think. There are always managers around that are on the lookout for a club. Whether they're what's needed here, none of us know.

Still, I go back to "do we stay as we are, with a manager and situation that's deteriorating fast- because we believe no one would touch us", or do we take a more positive route and try to move forward? I know what I think. Having a negative mindset of not trying to change for the better, because you're frightened of failure isn't what's needed. Particularly when the club's facing a financial abyss.

I think there is no question that some pretty good 'proven' managers would be interested in the job even with all the turmoil over the past few years and the financial constraints. The question that needs answering is will someone at the club be able to make a good appointment decision? I think if they ran a 'proper' well run process the likes of Shaw could make a good decision but truth be told I would have a hell of a lot more faith if someone of John Williams' caliber was still there. Rovers haven't run a proper process in years, they always have taken the quick, cheap and lazy option. But Shaw and co could easily change that if Venky's really do trust them.

No matter the concerns about potential appointments I still think a change is absolutely necessary. Could they make an even worse appointment than Bowyer? Of course, each appointment is a gamble but you can reduce the risk if you do your homework.

[JBiz]

I think there is no question that some pretty good 'proven' managers would be interested in the job even with all the turmoil over the past few years and the financial constraints.

The question that needs answering is will someone at the club be able to make a good appointment decision?

1. How many of these options would be prepared to travel 5000 miles regularly?

2. To answer your question- no. I don't think that is because they are stupid, I just think their I intentions are not where they should be.

Before the Raos, we had experienced people with the intention of improving out club. We now have neither.

As Den correctly points out, spewing hatred towards GB is a blinkered mentality. The problems the Raos brought into the club are still prevalent.

[Gav]

Before the Raos, we had experienced people with the intention of improving out club. We now have neither.

As Den correctly points out, spewing hatred towards GB is a blinkered mentality. The problems the Raos brought into the club are still prevalent.

The Raos are the issue, everything else is just a side show.

Well keep stumbling from crisis to crisis until they crawl back into the chicken coup they came from.

[JBiz]

The Raos are the issue, everything else is just a side show.

Well keep stumbling from crisis to crisis until they crawl back into the chicken coup they came from.

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I still see a way back for them if they want it. The first thing they need is a "John Williams" but funnily enough that was the first thing they got rid of.

Hell knows, but I agree.

[mustard]

Rolling that dice just isn't that appealing to me at the moment mustard and yes I'd rather sit mid-table than have Craig Short managing the club or someone else with little or no experience.

Saturday was terrible, one of the worst performances I can recall in many a year, if I see more performances like that towards the end of the season, and thats a real possibility, I'll probably change my view, but for now I'll stick with Bowyer.

My worry is mid table could be the best we hope for next season under Bowyer.