[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Blue blood]

Your points about any manager of quality not touching rovers -

I can't answer it Gord. You may well be right, you might be wrong. The fact that we're in a mess as a club could work either way. It could put a lot of managers off, or on the other hand it could, in a perverse way be attractive in that any manager that truly believed in his own ability would see that were still seen as one of the bigger clubs in this league, with excellent facilities and fancy he could turn us around - in doing so, providing himself with a challenge and enhancing his own credibility. Throughout the dark days of third division football, when the money was hardly there to pay the milkman, we still attracted some excellent young managers. It isn't as cut and dried as you might think. There are always managers around that are on the lookout for a club. Whether they're what's needed here, none of us know.

Still, I go back to "do we stay as we are, with a manager and situation that's deteriorating fast- because we believe no one would touch us", or do we take a more positive route and try to move forward? I know what I think. Having a negative mindset of not trying to change for the better, because you're frightened of failure isn't what's needed. Particularly when the club's facing a financial abyss.

Good post.

Only thing I'd add is that Rovers is a win-win situation for managers at the moment. If they turn it round everyone will say what a great job they've done. But if they don't they've got the current circus and incompetent owners as a ready-made excuse, their reputation is unlikely to suffer if they fail, people will think they had an impossible job. To back this up you only need to look at what and how Berg is now doing. It hardly wrecked his career.

[Amo]

Just keep wearing the blinkers

What kind of response is that? I might as well tell you to keep wearing the tinfoil hat.

Explain to me, if Venky's are in the business of selling players on for a profit, why they would allow Rudy, one of the hottest strikers in the division, to be dropped for Brown, a 30 year-old dolloper with no resale value? Oh, and I suppose it's a coincidence that the two players from the academy (Lowe & Hanley) are auto-picks by our academy coach-turned-manager. Or is that more skulduggery from the owners?

[tomphil]

Change happens all the time in football it's part and parcel of the game, always has been and always will be particularly on the managerial and player front. What you need is a solid infrastructure that can cope with change and adapt to it, a bit like we used to have. Things need freshening up and new ideas are needed every so often, it's a cycle especially in this league where money is tight so there tends to be a lot of movement between clubs of players and managers just to keep things moving because clubs can't spend big and bring in quality change.

If they had the brains to have a solid infrastructure in place with some real experience and enough power to strongly recommend change then swapping managers wouldn't be such a big deal, other clubs do it without falling off the face of the earth. It keeps the interest going a bit and keeps the players on their toes. Far easier to keep changing the coaching staff than having a revolving door of players.

Sadly these idiots have learned absolutely nothing and are still so arrogant and pig headed that they think they can still do it a different way to how the rest of the football industry works and prospers. Total utter clowns. If ever a set of owners deserved their club to implode it's these lot, sadly it's our club and it looks like we'll just have to put up with the death by thousand cuts routine they've so kindly brought upon us.

[den]

.Explain to me, if Venky's are in the business of selling players on for a profit, why they would allow Rudy, one of the hottest strikers in the division, to be dropped for Brown, a 30 year-old dolloper with no resale value?

Because he's told Gestede the same that he told Dabo. Namely that he only wants players around him that have a future here? Same for Robbo.

[Gav]

My worry is mid table could be the best we hope for next season under Bowyer.

Debt aside, would that be such a bad thing? We all want promotion, we all want success but if we're not good enough mid table wouldn't be so bad.

[Amo]

Because he's told Gestede the same that he told Dabo. Namely that he only wants players around him that have a future here? Same for Robbo.

What about Rhodes? He's been dropped at times. Would Balaji let his marquee signing rot on the bench and allow his valuation to drop? It just doesn't make any sense. A far more parsimonious explanation is that our manager doesn't know his best 11 and keeps rejigging things until it clicks.

[mustard]

Debt aside, would that be such a bad thing? We all want promotion, we all want success but if we're not good enough mid table wouldn't be so bad.

I think it would be yes. I think we are better than mid-table, yet our manager can't squeeze even half the best out of the players as a collective. Just my opinion.

Also, chances are the league won't be so cut and dry next season with regards to relegation places. This season the bottom three are miles away which is hardly usual.

Lose a couple of our best players and what's GB shown to suggest we won't be amongst them? Reliance on lump-it tactics, likely to Brown once Gestede has gone. Quality of football deteriorating and our defensive issues don't look like getting fixed anytime soon. Also the team seems devoid of creativity and the evidence is in our very average goal tally this season (despite having two of best strikers in the league). We can all see GB is tactically clueless and his selections and subs are baffling for the most part.

I really think people should be very worried as to where GB will have us next season.

What about Rhodes? He's been dropped at times. Would Balaji let his marquee signing rot on the bench and allow his valuation to drop? It just doesn't make any sense. A far more parsimonious explanation is that our manager doesn't know his best 11 and keeps rejigging things until it clicks.

Personally I think Bowyer's insistence on dropping Gestede for Brown is nothing short of shocking. Unforgivable even. Sometimes I've honestly thought he's playing around with the team just to pi$$ us fans off, picking a weakened team for seemingly no reason. What other managers do this?

[Amo]

To suggest that Parson is backing Gary because he is his friend is complete and utter nonsense.

Parson is someone who has supported the club his entire life, he has seen the good times and the bad times. He is someone who watches not only first teams matches but also the under 21's and the academy teams and is steeped in the history of our great club. While you might not agree with him on Gary, he is entitled to his opinion and it should be respected.

At least you could understand it if Bowyer was his mate. That he genuinely believes he's the right man for the job is even more damning.

[RibbleValleyRover]

1. How many of these options would be prepared to travel 5000 miles regularly?

2. To answer your question- no. I don't think that is because they are stupid, I just think their I intentions are not where they should be.

Before the Raos, we had experienced people with the intention of improving out club. We now have neither.

As Den correctly points out, spewing hatred towards GB is a blinkered mentality. The problems the Raos brought into the club are still prevalent.

1. Is a fair point, but do we really know if travelling to India several times during the season is an actual requirement? Call me cynical but in my opinion the reason why Kean appeared to travel every couple of weeks to Pune was to save his skin and make it difficult for people he befriended to sack him. If it is a requirement then I expect some managers even ones with a good pedigree would do it as money talks especially for some of those eager to get back into football. Ideally though this whole practice of travelling out several times a season should be scrapped or someone at board level should be making the trip instead. I would change it to making a trip before the season and an end of season review.

Point 2 that maybe the case but I haven't seen Rovers run a proper managerial search and application process run over a period of weeks for many years. It has always been a relatively quick appointment, so I would like to see what happens if they have some time to bring in a new manager. If they then appoint another substandard manager despite having the autonomy and resources to bring someone in then I will 100% agree with you and Rovers really have zero chance of turning it around.

Spewing hatred happened under Kean as that experiment went on to long, Bowyer is nowhere near that but another season or two in the Championship with increasing debt will change that.

[den]

What about Rhodes? He's been dropped at times. Would Balaji let his marquee signing rot on the bench and allow his valuation to drop? It just doesn't make any sense. A far more parsimonious explanation is that our manager doesn't know his best 11 and keeps rejigging things until it clicks.

I'm not following you Amo. What doesn't make sense?

[Gav]

At least you could understand it if Bowyer was his mate. That he genuinely believes he's the right man for the job is even more damning.

Maybe Parson sees the bigger picture Toppers, lets face it he's probably seen more football than me and you put together, maybe he sees something some of us don't.

Regardless of that he should be allowed to hold his opinion without being labelled Bowyers mate.

Personally I think Bowyer's insistence on dropping Gestede for Brown is nothing short of shocking. Unforgivable even. Sometimes I've honestly thought he's playing around with the team just to pi$$ us fans off, picking a weakened team for seemingly no reason. What other managers do this?

Don't forget Gestede refused to play during the Palace transfer saga, under most circumstances fans would be up in arms about this but it seems to have been forgotten.

He's probably made it clear that he's off in the summer also, so that won't help his cause.

All that said, you play your best players, no doubt about that.

[Amo]

I'm not following you Amo. What doesn't make sense?

Glen's accusation that Venky's are picking the team.

Maybe Parson sees the bigger picture Toppers, lets face it he's probably seen more football than me and you put together, maybe he sees something some of us don't.

The 'bigger picture' is that without promotion we're goosed. Bowyer isn't the man to deliver it.

[West Yorks Rover]

I can't recall Bowyer going out to Pune more than 2 or 3 times since he's been in charge.

Glen Mullan said a while ago, that it wasn't particularly a requirement of the job, so he'd heard.

We all know why Kean went though.

[jim mk2]

As it stands and with the current players and manager I'll take mid-table next season. But with possibly 3 of our best players departing in the summer and likely to be replaced by lesser players (or not replaced at all) I do fear for our future in 2015-16. A relegation battle is looming

[stpbrown]

Jim is it too early for your annual 'relegation battle' thread? It has been sadly missed over the last year or so.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Any manager worth his salt would stipulate I'm not doing Pune 3/4 x a year, you want me to turn this club around, I'll go once a year out of respect (sic) for the owners, discuss what's needed, and leave me to it!

When they say no, he walks......just a thought!

[den]

Glen's accusation that Venky's are picking the team.

Ah right. Doubt it, although they've definitely been the architects of many of our players being frozen out.

[West Yorks Rover]

Any manager worth his salt would stipulate I'm not doing Pune 3/4 x a year, you want me to turn this club around, I'll go once a year out of respect (sic) for the owners, discuss what's needed, and leave me to it!

When they say no, he walks......just a thought!

Bowyer certainly hasn't been going 3/4 times a year, nothing like it.

[Rover_Shaun]

Once in the summer is enough

[Blue blood]

Personally Amo I think that Venkys are influencing the team, by setting the objective of increasing player value, rather than picking the 11 that plays each week. As increasing player value seems to be the target I think that has resulted in players being rotated, so that everyone gets the chance to develop in value.

Let's face it - few players are increasing in value, even our more talented players like Marshall and Cairney are inconsistent. By rotating the squad so much, all players get the chance to get on the pitch and improve their value, thus increasing the chance of selling them for a profit, and Bowyer gets to keep his job. A stupid system but the only one that, to me, makes sense.

Part of that means Gestede being rested wherever possible for the Liverpool game. He's the only forward capable of coming out of that game with any credit, and his best chance to increase in value, and so Bowyer's desperate to keep him fit by not playing him. If that means we're left with lesser players like Brown on the pitch so be it, but then winning games isn't the objective, increasing player value is.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Bowyer certainly hasn't been going 3/4 times a year, nothing like it.[/quot

I thought he'd been twice already this season, and Kamy suggesting he might be going this international break? The point is not to be at the beck and call. Results are king!

[Stuart]

Under any other circumstances I'd be with you on all those points den, but Venkys record on managerial appointments is awful, they'll in my opinion give Craig Short the job or appoint somone cheaper than Bowyer and probably equally as clueless.

What kind of football club is it where we should be happy sticking with a clueless manager because the potential replacement might be equally clueless? It's no wonder we are losing supporters to apathy and frustration.

I think a lot of people outside of this forum and Ewood would think that GB's done a great job given the preceding circus and would probably be very critical of the club if they did sack him.

I don't know a single person in the 'real world' who think Bowyer is doing a good job and/or should get more time. The best offer, almost apologetically, is that he did well to avoid relegation. Two seasons ago.

[Gav]

What kind of football club is it where we should be happy sticking with a clueless manager because the potential replacement might be equally clueless? It's no wonder we are losing supporters to apathy and frustration.

.

Sometimes I have to give my head a wobble to make sure I'm not dreaming.

How the hell those idiots in Pune got all this so wrong is beyond me, but does explain why they'll not employ anyone decent or make a decent decision as long as theyve a hole in there head!

[Waggy76]

There is a reason WHY these idiots are still at the club...

5 years of going backwards and they do nothing , WHY ?

It beggars belief .....

But rest assured there will be a reason and it is not for the love of Blackburn Rovers ....

[47er]

Jim is it too early for your annual 'relegation battle' thread? It has been sadly missed over the last year or so.

He's right though.