[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Amo]

By Degsy at the behest of Kean and Bowyer

Search for the figures yourself you lazy bleeder

EDIT: Done it for you

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/blackburn-rovers/english-football-teams/blackburn-rovers-transfers

Major undisclosed fees to add: Gestede £300k. Conway £whatever it was I can't recall

Players ommited to add: Marshal £1m

Works out as Kean £13.5m (bald t0sser) and Bowyer about £4-£4.5m

Irrelevant I know but the charge that the club has not had enough funds to get out of this league is not true. The money has been waxed on bugger all

Incidentally, I thought there were a few names there I didn't recognise. Seems they've confused some of our dealings with Blackpool's.

[Rover_Shaun]

Not cash transfers Amo. Blackpool really have none

it ain't hard to see why the debt has grown so much since relegation. The damage Kean did will last decades

[Amo]

Not cash transfers Amo. Blackpool really have none

it ain't hard to see why the debt has grown so much since relegation. The damage Kean did will last decades

No, but household names like James Caton, Noguera, and Adda Djeziri never signed for us, AFAIK.

[Jimmy612]

Not cash transfers Amo. Blackpool really have none

it ain't hard to see why the debt has grown so much since relegation. The damage Kean did will last decades

It's nice to agree on something with you RS We should try it more often.

The damage that teeeewat and his slimey agent did wil probably never ever be recovered. Sad part is that me, you and about 99.9% of the fanbase saw it coming a bloody mile off - the club was dismantled piece by piece in front of our eyes and not one governing body in the game could be arsed to do anything about it. Ironically the most interested body was the LMA protecting the devious f*cker, along with David Moyes and God knows who else.

And don't get me started on that keaner from the Daily Mail, Matt Lawton - still angers me today this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2086359/Steve-Kean-interview-Matt-Lawton.html

Well, I've ruined my own Friday - @#/? sake

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Works out as Kean £13.5m (bald t0sser) and Bowyer about £4-£4.5m

A bloody disgraceful amount of coin spent for mediocrity....Jesus Christ!

[Gav]

So Bowyers only spent 3.4m yet we're putting that figure at almost 17m because of the players he's had at his disposal!

What a load of bunkum, a truly pathetic arguement if ever heard one.

Trying to add wages to that figure to boost the total is also pathetic, why not add Kevin Gallaghers transfer fee also as he's still around the club and I'm sure I saw Shearer drive past junction 34 on M6, add his fee also....

[adsfortheblues]

You're fortunate I just have -

15.5 by Kean

3.4 by Bowyer.

EDIT - I note we have clashed on fees spent -- - http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/blackburn-rovers/transfers/verein/164/plus/?saison_id=2012&pos=&detailpos=

EDIT EDIT - I note now that Gestede and Cairney are Loans in my list - Add £1m. - so about £4.4.m in two seasons for Bowyer.

Most of that on Rhodes, Best and Etuhu plus the portuguese contingent and Danny @#/? Murphy.

So really no surprise that after spunking millions on crap, we are still a mid-table Champ side. Not an excuse for Bowyer because this season I believe he should have done better with the players he has, particularly considering the WOEFUL December and January we had.

I still want a proper manager - I have since Kean departed, but unlike others I'm exceptionally wary of how catastrophically wrong it can go with Venkys heading up a managerial search. We don't have a bad side but we are woefully inconsistent - things could be better, things could certainly be a hell of a lot worse. People appear to have forgotten that there is a hell of a long way left to fall yet.

If we are looking at just bowyer alone, I posted something on this a few days ago, fees, loan fees and wages came to just over £16million in two and a half seasons, not exactly peanuts is it, and I'm sure we could have brought in far more quality with that amount of spending.

[Jimmy612]

A bloody disgraceful amount of coin spent for mediocrity....Jesus Christ!

£2m a season isn't disgraceful at all - it seems to be just about average for mid-table medocrity. Charlton, Sheff Wed, Brighton are all hovering around that fee (incidentally we're above them all), and the likes of Cardiff, Wigan, Fulham and Forest have all spent an absolute fortune in relation to us.

£15m is a travesty given where we ended up that first season.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I wonder how much Burnley spent to gain promotion.

We have p!ssed money away left right and centre.

[Jimmy612]

If we are looking at just bowyer alone, I posted something on this a few days ago, fees, loan fees and wages came to just over £16million in two and a half seasons, not exactly peanuts is it, and I'm sure we could have brought in far more quality with that amount of spending.

Oh, would you mind re-posting Ads, I'd be interested to read. Would be good if we could also compare with the other championship clubs to guage where we are in those standings - otherwise it's relatively useless information.

Question - did those wages include the players that were already on a ludicrious contract pre-Bowyer i.e. Rhodes, Robinson, Best, Etuhu etc etc, or just those that he has brought in on (I expect) fairly modest wages in line with our new transfer policy. Because assuming that they are included then 40 + 30 + 30 = £100,000 p/w - which would be around £5.2m per year, which equates to around £10.4m in 2 years that Bowyer has now been manager. That's just for Best, Rhodes and Robinson. I assume therefore they aren't included in your calculation?

I wonder how much Burnley spent to gain promotion.

We have p!ssed money away left right and centre.

A fine example SG and quite rightly we should give Dyche and his staff a huge amount of credit for their acheivements. Perhaps he'll come and work here if we ask nicely....

[West Yorks Rover]

This makes for interesting reading (I've not verified the figures, but they appear reasonable): http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/startseite/wettbewerb/GB2

(But what on Earth is a Legionary?)

I presume Gary Bowyer will still be here in 6 months' time, wonder how the landscape will look then?

Well we appear to have the 5th most valuable squad in the league, but we're in 10th position.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

.....he's not that daft.

[adsfortheblues]

Oh, would you mind re-posting Ads, I'd be interested to read. Would be good if we could also compare with the other championship clubs to guage where we are in those standings - otherwise it's relatively useless information.

Question - did those wages include the players that were already on a ludicrious contract pre-Bowyer i.e. Rhodes, Robinson, Best, Etuhu etc etc, or just those that he has brought in on (I expect) fairly modest wages in line with our new transfer policy. Because assuming that they are included then 40 + 30 + 30 = £100,000 p/w - which would be around £5.2m per year, which equates to around £10.4m in 2 years that Bowyer has now been manager. That's just for Best, Rhodes and Robinson. I assume therefore they aren't included in your calculation?

A fine example SG and quite rightly we should give Dyche and his staff a huge amount of credit for their acheivements. Perhaps he'll come and work here if we ask nicely....

I'll try and find it mate, there is some assumptions within the forecast, however they are what you would call realistic forecasts.

[Jimmy612]

Well we appear to have the 5th most valuable squad in the league, but we're in 10th position.

We have the most valuable player WYR - sadly he's vastly over rated because of the over-inflated price we paid.

.....he's not that daft.

Quite right too

I'll try and find it mate, there is some assumptions within the forecast, however they are what you would call realistic forecasts.

I'll be the judge of that

[yoda]

.....he's not that daft.

Not yet

[West Yorks Rover]

Maybe we did pay over the odds for JR but plenty seem to want to give us £10-12m for his services now.

Therefore that's his value, so Bowyer is underperforming by some distance as we're miles off the top 6,

with the 5th most valuable squad, I didn't expect us to be certainties for the play-offs but he should have

had us at least challenging.

Time for him to go !

[Jimmy612]

Maybe we did pay over the odds for JR but plenty seem to want to give us £10-12m for his services now.

Therefore that's his value, so Bowyer is underperforming by some distance as we're miles off the top 6,

with the 5th most valuable squad, I didn't expect us to be certainties for the play-offs but he should have

had us at least challenging.

Time for him to go !

Agreed on that. I too expected us to be around the play-offs and I have been so disappointed by this season.

Maybe time for him to go, I certainly wouldn't be adverse to the idea - as long as a proper managerial selection be carried out by appropriate and well qualified representatives of the cl..... oh

[den]

And apart from having the excellent Rhodes, he's only been allowed to reinforce by another 24 players of his own choice. Poor soul.

[adsfortheblues]

We have the most valuable player WYR - sadly he's vastly over rated because of the over-inflated price we paid.

Quite right too

I'll be the judge of that

Lol well I added all transfers fees together with potential add ons of deals, not just initial fee, I did this with a lot of research old articles etc they are as follows:

Cairney 500k up to £1.5 with add ons

Green £200,000 (this is potential only around £50k upfront)

Evans £1mil

Gestede £250,000 1mill add ons

Conway 500k

Duffy 1.5mil with potential £1mil add ons

Marshall £1mil

Transfers fees POTENTIAL - £7.7million

Then I looked at the wages of the 24 players signed, I allocated £5k per week wages to the lesser players which I believe perfectly reasonable and allocated £10k per week to the "better" players which may be being generous as a few them may be on more than £10k per week. Therefore allocated £5k per week to 9 of them and £10k per week to 14 of them and £15k per week to DJ Campbell, who was signed when bowyer was here. That totals £10.08 million.

Total £17.708 million.

I haven't included any loan fees that may have been payable.

Let me know your thoughts mate.

[thenodrog]

And so do you think sticking with Bowyer forever is the way forward? At what point do you turn around and say "ok, enough is enough, let's gamble"? Do you wait til we are bottom half of the table or relegation places?

And then what? Battle to find a manager when the squad is decimated and the rebuild job is even harder, with little chance of the manager being able to come in and succeed? Part of me does understand your logic/fear. However, by all accounts Bowyer isn't getting the best out of this squad and hasn't for a while.

The first scenario is you think Bowyer is a good recruiter and a good tactician. For me, I don't see how anyone could think this considering the selections, tactical decisions, subs etc but this would explain your desire to stick with him through thick and thin.

Second scenario. If you think Bowyer is a good recruiter and not adept tactically then you would have to say he is under-performing in his tactical/managerial duties. We are all in agreement we will likely lose some of our best players in summer, which then means Bowyer would have to bring out more in the players than he is currently doing to even achieve mid-table, which could very easily lead to a relegation scrap. Do you think he is capable of squeezing more out of a depleted squad, considering our mediocrity with the squad now?

Third scenario. If your argument is that the squad he's assembled isn't that great but Bowyer is doing ok tactically, then obviously his recruitment isn't up to scratch, bearing in mind he's inherited some quality players and spent around £3million on building his team. If this is the case, then how can you trust him to make the correct signings in summer?

Or final scenario, if you think his recruitment hasn't been great and he tactically isn't all there, then ultimately what's the point in just sticking with him til death do us part?

The fear of appointing someone worse and sticking with Bowyer regardless has plenty more flaws than looking to appoint someone new. I am very aware that there are risks in appointing a new manager, considering Venky's track record etc, and of course we could get someone worse, but we could very easily get someone better IMO. Depending on which scenario you believe, what's the use in sticking with him and hoping he changes his tact after two years in the job?

For me it's all about risk vs reward. The risk of sticking with Bowyer is high, yet the chances of reward are very slim as there is nothing to suggest he could even take a talented squad to the play-offs, let alone to the promotion spots. The risk of appointing a new manager is high as we could get someone worse, equal or better than GB. However, the potential rewards from a new manager far exceeds the potential rewards from sticking with Bowyer.

EDIT: This isn't solely aimed at you, but at anyone who believes sticking with Bowyer is the best option. Just trying to understand the logic and which scenario they relate to.

I'm not a supporter of Bowyer but I don't believe that he has done badly enough to be sacked. Given that we are one match off Wembley it would put the club in a even worse light than it is already, bit like Brentford tbh.

btw From what I saw of Brentford a couple of weeks back and the general cut of their jib I'd certainly consider Mark Warburton as a step up but whether the feeling would be mutual I somehow doubt. This is the problem.

[ABBEY]

Anyone can bring players in Abbs, it's the budget/market place you shop in that counts.

You're making it up!!

Some good steak on markets .. It's how you cook it and serve it afterwards

[thenodrog]

What kind of argument is it, that those managers would be no good here because I/we/us/the fans wouldn't give them a chance?

They were all better managers than the current one - and all appointed when the club had supposedly nothing to offer them. They were all given a chance by the fans then, just as Bowyer has been given and is still getting his chance.

You've been saying for the past 4 years where the club is heading, I.e admin or worse, but now you're frightened of appointing the wrong manager because of the damage that could do.

You're better than that Gordon.

I hear so many constantly declaring that they want a proven manager with experience but none of the above had it. I keep saying that I am not a fan of Bowyer but I refuse to partake in a witch hunt that so many on here appear to relish. I think his curve is now downward for him and probably steeply once the quality players leave. Oh and I am afraid of appointing the wrong manager because the right ones won't damn well come!

[ABBEY]

How do you know though ?

[thenodrog]

I wonder how much Burnley spent to gain promotion.

We have p!ssed money away left right and centre.

Indeed so. Most could see it at the time but not the ones who matter. We've done it for the past 4 years and now that push is coming to shove and we have replaced the big earners with cheaper options people don't like what they are seeing.

[Stuart]

I hear so many constantly declaring that they want a proven manager with experience but none of the above had it. I keep saying that I am not a fan of Bowyer but I refuse to partake in a witch hunt that so many on here appear to relish. I think his curve is now downward for him and probably steeply once the quality players leave. Oh and I am afraid of appointing the wrong manager because the right ones won't damn well come!

So you won't admonish him despite him taking the club downwards? Forget where we were two years ago. We have had from then until now recovering, now we need to rebuild. If Bowyer is the right man to do that (bearing in mind the premise that Venkys are covering the losses and the manager doesn't need to sell anyone) then fine but if he's not then we should be going all out to bring in someone who is.