[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Amo]

Oh what Mick McCarthy would give to be able to spend £1m on one player like Bowyer has.

[DE.]

Oh what Mick McCarthy would give to be able to spend £1m on one player like Bowyer has.

Indeed, I think he's spent £10k since arriving at Ipswich. Might also by why they've avoided a transfer embargo.

[blueboy3333]

IMO the wage bill is a moot point because the main drains who've been removed wouldn't have played anyway. They were brought here just for their last big contracts and were either injured or just plain crap and uninterested by the time GB took charge so he wouldn't have used them anyway. If they didn't exist would Bowyer have been allowed to spend ? Possibly but at least he hasn't had to cope with his best players being sold, far from it he's been able to loan in whenever he's asked which goes against the grain of being hampered by slashing the wage bill. Let's not forget he fell out with Best also.

FFP is being banded about all the time now but again it doesn't wash as far as this season is concerned as they knew it was coming and pre empted it by signing a load of players, admittedly on the cheap but also turned down big bids for good players. Again against the grain of slashing the wage bill.

Everyone inside and outside football look at our squad and say we should be doing better. Nothing can take away from the fact that this season has been a wasted chance of at least an assault on the play offs. From here on in it's going to get really tough and next season this league will be more competitive than ever. Part of the reason for this seasons waste is the state we are in and the inconsistency of players. However nothing can take away from the fact that another large part of it is down to the floundering, over cautious lackadaisical approach of the manager.

whose call was that?

[thenodrog]

If that is true Tom , I wont be there !

Who do you think cares about that?

C'mo waggy76, don't leave it hanging. Tell us all please the appointment of whom exactly would make you buy another ST?

btw Is it only me who sees an ironical link in your "Kean Out" avatar and now your calling for Bowyer out on this thread?

[thenodrog]

Removing Venkys at the moment surely means the death of the club?

They all want to go down Pleasi and watch some pub team called BRFC2015 play Blackburn Olympic don't you know? That should last about 3 weeks till the first cold wet day.

It's funny how the Wigan ones and others that don't quite work out etc are always highlighted yet the changes that do ok are missed. Lennon at Bolton, Rowett at Brum, arguably the ones at Brighton/ Huddersfield all went in stopped the rot and got the clubs doing ok again when a few of them were heading only one way. Okay they haven't torn up trees but they haven't got the players/squads to do so yet. Then there is Watford of course.

Thats precisely what Bowyer did here.

it is still an attractive role at one of the leagues founder members , PL winners etc

No manager cares about the past history of a club. All history does is pile unreasonable expectation on the new man.

[Stuart]

This debate has been going around in circles for about 8 months now, it basically boils down to the people wanting Bowyer out expressing the above logic, and the people wanting Bowyer to stay saying Venky's can't be trusted and will hire somebody worse. Argument ends up in stalemate, then the personal insults come out.

Sad but true. It's nice to have a fresh pair of eyes comment on it though.

[Gav]

Of course, managerial changes can go badly- Wigan, but also well- Burnley. Was ever thus.

The interesting thing about a managerial change is almost every manager touted by fans on here has failed in his next job. We've been debating suitable managers since Bowyer was appointed, with some very good reasoned debate.

The worry is, I believe people on here have more idea about a new manager than Shaw, so what he comes up with is anyone’s guess.

I nailed my colors to the mast last night, after months of sticking with him, Bowyer in my opinion has to go, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

[Athlete]

They all want to go down Pleasi and watch some pub team called BRFC2015 play Blackburn Olympic don't you know? That should last about 3 weeks till the first cold wet day.

Thats precisely what Bowyer did here.

No manager cares about the past history of a club. All history does is pile unreasonable expectation on the new man.

FYI Bernard Langer I was making the point that Rovers managerial role is an attractive proposition.. Just look around the stadium most people are impressed.. Bet you're more impressed with royal birkdale... Lol

BTW it's only light natured banter

[DE.]

The interesting thing about a managerial change is almost every manager touted by fans on here has failed in his next job. We've been debating suitable managers since Bowyer was appointed, with some very good reasoned debate.

The worry is, I believe people on here have more idea about a new manager than Shaw, so what he comes up with is anyone’s guess.

I nailed my colors to the mast last night, after months of sticking with him, Bowyer in my opinion has to go, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

I think the comments on Holloway are a little harsh. Millwall were pretty poor before he got there, not sure many managers could have done much with that team. Admittedly he didn't do anything to help them, but the job here around the time he was being touted was very different imo and I think he could have made a go of it.

Never wanted Mackay, Lennon's done OK at Bolton but again, a much weaker team than ours so difficult to say how he would have fared here. He's improved Bolton somewhat, so perhaps we'd be a couple of places higher if he was in charge.

Then you look at the likes of Rowett and Alex Neil at Birmingham and Norwich, who have come out of nowhere and had instant impact. Norwich obviously have a very good team, but Rowett's done a hell of a job at Birmingham. And who knew of Warburton before he took Brentford storming up the league?

Regardless of how other managers have done at other clubs, the main principle behind advocating them is sound - experience. It's something Bowyer lacks and his lack of nous has definitely cost us tactically and most likely in terms of preparation and overall playing style too.

I can completely understand the fear of Venky's appointing another dud - with their track record you'd have to be crazy not to have serious concerns over their decision making. That said, I see no positive future under Bowyer and for that reason have to back a change. With a weaker team next season I believe we're going to be in serious trouble if a better manager isn't appointed. Can Venky's or Shaw find a guy to improve the team? You'd have to say the chances are slim, but there is a slim chance and unless we are accepting an inevitable decline I think we have to want change, no matter how little faith we have in the powers-that-be getting it right.

[Stuart]

The interesting thing about a managerial change is almost every manager touted by fans on here has failed in his next job. We've been debating suitable managers since Bowyer was appointed, with some very good reasoned debate.

The worry is, I believe people on here have more idea about a new manager than Shaw, so what he comes up with is anyones guess.

I nailed my colors to the mast last night, after months of sticking with him, Bowyer in my opinion has to go, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

But there is nothing to say that because a manager fails at one club they will fail at every club. Often they have ups and downs. There are plenty of examples.

I've long believed that Bowyer is not a manager, and not the man to take us forward. Others have berated him after a few defeats and forgiven (and berated the continued doubters) after a couple of wins. It's made discussing him on here very difficult because one week you are discussing other options with people and the next the same posters are arguing with you. Suddenly adamant that Bowyer deserves more time/respect/credit.

In my view there is a certain type of manager that gets teams promoted from this division time and time and time again. The trouble is that they command top dollar and Venkys want everything on the cheap. Because of some weird sustainable model they seem to have - one that, no matter which way you look at it, will never pay back what they have lost. Promotion is the only solution to the 'Venkys problem'. The idea that they are benevolent dictators, who through some sick idea of pride, are going to continue to fund a slow rebuilding process over the next 4 years whilst Bowyer earns his stripes is frankly ridiculous.

[yoda]

But there is nothing to say that because a manager fails at one club they will fail at every club. Often they have ups and downs. There are plenty of examples.

I've long believed that Bowyer is not a manager, and not the man to take us forward. Others have berated him after a few defeats and forgiven (and berated the continued doubters) after a couple of wins. It's made discussing him on here very difficult because one week you are discussing other options with people and the next the same posters are arguing with you. Suddenly adamant that Bowyer deserves more time/respect/credit.

In my view there is a certain type of manager that gets teams promoted from this division time and time and time again. The trouble is that they command top dollar and Venkys want everything on the cheap. Because of some weird sustainable model they seem to have - one that, no matter which way you look at it, will never pay back what they have lost. Promotion is the only solution to the 'Venkys problem'. The idea that they are benevolent dictators, who through some sick idea of pride, are going to continue to fund a slow rebuilding process over the next 4 years whilst Bowyer earns his stripes is frankly ridiculous.

There's only one benevolent dictator

[Stuart]

[Rover_Shaun]

How many more windows does Bowyer need again??

[Stuart]

So it's OK for Brum/Norwich to appoint "rookie" managers, yet for Venkys to do it, it's just not on?

Don't know about you but I read 'instant impact'. Bowyer has had two full seasons and been in the top 6 (I.e. 6th) for all of about 2 hours.

[Gav]

Don't know about you but I read 'instant impact'. Bowyer has had two full seasons and been in the top 6 (I.e. 6th) for all of about 2 hours.

He's still adopting the ludicrous tactic of lumping long balls to Rhodes who can't hold the ball up and isn't very good in the air, it's scandalous and was the final straw for me.

[DE.]

So it's OK for Brum/Norwich to appoint "rookie" managers, yet for Venkys to do it, it's just not on? It perhaps comes down to whether you buy into the "rookie"/"experience" argument, or whether you sweep that aside and go with "they either can or they can't" instead.

That's a very simple conclusion to draw from my post. As Stuart said, it's about having an impact. Bowyer had somewhat of a bounce when he was first appointed, but time has shown he doesn't have the know-how to sustain that. It may be that both Rowett and Neil cannot keep their teams going long-term either, which is why I think experience is the best bet. However, if Venky's do roll the dice again and we get another rookie, it may not end in disaster. We may get lucky, as Norwich/Brum have.

Based on two years of Bowyer, I think it's a fairly safe to say we aren't going anywhere under his guidance. I'm yet to read anything from the pro-Bowyer camp to convince me he's taking the club in a positive direction beyond supposed stability (which is, IMO, very likely to become serious regression next season). Most of the optimism from this group is based on things that haven't ever happened under Bowyer's tenure, or championing his scouting system, which is irrelevant when it comes to playing the actual matches and preparing the team properly.

[Athlete]

So it's OK for Brum/Norwich to appoint "rookie" managers, yet for Venkys to do it, it's just not on? It perhaps comes down to whether you buy into the "rookie"/"experience" argument, or whether you sweep that aside and go with "they either can or they can't" instead.

Alex Neal did fantastic at Hamilton got them promoted and early on this season had em top of the SPL highly rated manager

[chris_h]

Alex Neal did fantastic at Hamilton got them promoted and early on this season had em top of the SPL highly rated manager

The pitchfork baring angry mob on here would have descended into apoplexy had Rovers appointed Neal. Likewise Rowett, Warburton, Powell et al.

[tomphil]

whose call was that?

Those who are somehow footing the bill presumably.

They all want to go down Pleasi and watch some pub team called BRFC2015 play Blackburn Olympic don't you know? That should last about 3 weeks till the first cold wet day.

Thats precisely what Bowyer did here.

No manager cares about the past history of a club. All history does is pile unreasonable expectation on the new man.

Bowyer is a good 12 months and god knows how many signings in front of those guys. If you'd read the post that was covered

[jim mk2]

It's funny how the Wigan ones and others that don't quite work out etc are always highlighted yet the changes that do ok are missed. Lennon at Bolton, Rowett at Brum, arguably the ones at Brighton/ Huddersfield all went in stopped the rot and got the clubs doing ok again when a few of them were heading only one way. Okay they haven't torn up trees but they haven't got the players/squads to do so yet. Then there is Watford of course.

Yes, it had passed me by until this week that Watford have had 4 managers this season - none of whom I could name - and they are top of the league or thereabouts. Begs the question of whether a manager makes any difference at all and a team is only as good as its players.

[47er]

The pitchfork baring angry mob on here would have descended into apoplexy had Rovers appointed Neal. Likewise Rowett, Warburton, Powell et al.

And the Hyperbole Oxygen Thieves would have torn into them.

[Andyblue2]

How many more windows does Bowyer need again??

I think his theory is the more transfer windows he sees through, the more actual windows in the new house when the pay off finally comes.

[chris_h]

And the Hyperbole Oxygen Thieves would have torn into them.

'Oxygen Thieves'?

I thought you didn't like name calling?

[thenodrog]

He's still adopting the ludicrous tactic of lumping long balls to Rhodes who can't hold the ball up and isn't very good in the air, it's scandalous and was the final straw for me.

C'mon Gav it's pretty bloody obvious more than scandalous. The scandal is an 8m, 40k pw striker not being able to play centre forward and lead the line. Cause and effect.... The defence were forced into that simply because of JR's ineptitude outside of the area. Because of JR's weaknesses and lack of pace Lpool pushed up to the half way line and squeezed the game into our half, this denied our midfield time and space resulting in the only safe option being a lump forward..... before it coming straight back for the reasons that I have just outlined. Any of our three injured strikers would have offered more to the team effort against Lpool.

[Stuart]

Dear me. We really needed this Wembley trip didn't we. It's going to be a long Summer.