[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[chris_h]

Have a break then. Go out and get some fresh air.

[rickard]

So it's OK for Brum/Norwich to appoint "rookie" managers, yet for Venkys to do it, it's just not on? It perhaps comes down to whether you buy into the "rookie"/"experience" argument, or whether you sweep that aside and go with "they either can or they can't" instead.

Question though, were they actually managers before being appointed or a youth coaches/managers promoted from within? Honest question since I don't know the background of those mentioned.

[Mattyblue]

The pitchfork baring angry mob on here would have descended into apoplexy had Rovers appointed Neal. Likewise Rowett, Warburton, Powell et al.

So?

Many did when it looked like Williams wanted Allardyce and instead picked Ince. It is up to the club to make appointents on who they believe will get results, not play to the gallery.

The reason every decision at modern day Blackburn Rovers is questioned is due to the past record of these owners, if I was a Norwich fan I would believe in the appointment as they are a club that exists to get the best possible outcome on the pitch with the resources they have (as we once did). Not simply taking the easy option and on the basis they get on with 'Madame'

[jim mk2]

What's Warburton doing next season ? He has an outstanding record at Brentford yet apparently has been told he won't be retained.

[DE.]

What's Warburton doing next season ? He has an outstanding record at Brentford yet apparently has been told he won't be retained.

The owner's going with a "mathematic model" of bringing in players, which Warburton thinks is balls, basically.

I fear the owners have no intention of removing Bowyer from his post, unfortunately, but I would very much like to see what Warburton could do with this team.

[Rover_Shaun]

Dear me. We really needed this Wembley trip didn't we. It's going to be a long Summer.

Old Trafford would have been better. Like Venkys, the FA can fck right off and pay their own debt

[chris_h]

So?

Many did when it looked like Williams wanted Allardyce and instead picked Ince. It is up to the club to make appointents on who they believe will get results, not play to the gallery.

The reason every decision at modern day Blackburn Rovers is questioned is due to the past record of these owners, if I was a Norwich fan I would believe in the appointment as they are a club that exists to get the best possible outcome on the pitch with the resources they have (as we once did). Not simply taking the easy option and on the basis they get on with 'Madame'

I was trying to make the point that those who are agitating for change would likely be the same ones to bellyache about appointing inexperienced managers who aren't 'big names'.

[DE.]

Experienced managers always get a bit of leeway because they have a track record. That's perfectly logical. It's up to an inexperienced manager to prove to the fanbase that he has what it takes to push the club forward.

Plenty were backing Bowyer when he was first appointed because initially improved the team, myself included. When his limitations became apparent and his lack of experience started causing problems, people quite rightly called for (and still call for) an experienced manager to get a grip on things.

I don't see why anybody would find the above contentious. It's fairly reasonable, isn't it? The only point of contention can be the perception of whether Bowyer is doing a good job or not.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

C'mon Gav it's pretty bloody obvious more than scandalous. The scandal is an 8m, 40k pw striker not being able to play centre forward and lead the line. Cause and effect.... The defence were forced into that simply because of JR's ineptitude outside of the area. Because of JR's weaknesses and lack of pace Lpool pushed up to the half way line and squeezed the game into our half, this denied our midfield time and space resulting in the only safe option being a lump forward..... before it coming straight back for the reasons that I have just outlined. Any of our three injured strikers would have offered more to the team effort against Lpool.

Fully agree that Rhodes outside of a penalty box is a waste of space, however, surely you adapt your tactics and style to the players you have? What the hell do they do in training?

At times when Liverpool had the ball at the back we pressed them high up with the wingers and Cairney almost making a front 4. That was good to see. Our problem was when we were defending, we effectively had 9 players behind the ball - resulting in a hoof being the only outlet - which we all know Rhodes won't win 99% of the time. We need a player in the hole if we are only playing Rhodes up front. A player that can operate between the opposition midfield and defence. Perhaps Bowyer told Cairney to do this but it wasn't obvious if he did. That is the player who should be the outlet - or hunts down the second ball if it's headed clear. A younger Dunn. Without this, we are never going to be able to accommodate Rhodes up front- on his own.

It has been thus a lot under Bowyer this season. We have been too defensive, created very little and invariably conceded a sloppy goal. The pass it around in our own half so it looks like we play on the deck then hoof it tactic . When we've gone behind we seem to throw a few more players forward but the tactic doesn't change we just scrap the passing around and go direct a bit quicker.

Brentford, Derby, Norwich, Wolves all played us off the park at Ewood. The first 3 through a slick passing game with plenty of movement and attacking intent (Brentford leaving 3 players up on the halfway line when defending a corner). They all pressed a high line. Wolves played on the counter with pacey wingers and forward.

If Bowyer remains, he needs to shape the squad and tactics a lot better. Personally, I don't think he's capable of doing it and needs to go.

There have been some positives this season - the re-emergence of Adam Henley and the consistent performances of Marcus olsson and Rudi Gestede. I also think Kilgallon had come out with a lot of credit since his reintroduction to the team. Baptiste too, has been consistent.

Negatives: We've been to negative!

[47er]

'Oxygen Thieves'?

I thought you didn't like name calling?

I don't see why you and Blueboy should have the field entirely to yourselves.

I was trying to make the point that if you keep making inflammatory posts like that, you will inevitably provoke a similar response.

But you can carry on without me, I've put you back on ignore.

[chris_h]

I don't see why you and Blueboy should have the field entirely to yourselves.

But you can carry on without me, I've put you back on ignore.

Would somebody please tell 47er that he's ruined my day now.

Hope he's happy

[mustard]

C'mon Gav it's pretty bloody obvious more than scandalous. The scandal is an 8m, 40k pw striker not being able to play centre forward and lead the line. Cause and effect.... The defence were forced into that simply because of JR's ineptitude outside of the area. Because of JR's weaknesses and lack of pace Lpool pushed up to the half way line and squeezed the game into our half, this denied our midfield time and space resulting in the only safe option being a lump forward..... before it coming straight back for the reasons that I have just outlined. Any of our three injured strikers would have offered more to the team effort against Lpool.

I'm not sure how you cite Rhodes's lack of ability at dealing with balls aimed at his eyeballs as a means of defending Bowyer as opposed to criticising his tactics. You use your hatred of Rhodes to shield your love of Bowyer.

We've seen the hoofball at Ewood for the whole of this season and yet we've rarely seen positive results from any of Bowyer's frontman experiments (except arguably King, when he managed to get players sent off twice).

Let's imagine the situation if any of the other players had started instead of Rhodes... So we can agree to the consensus that Rhodes was isolated for most of the game, with no one within 20 yards of him, yes? Let's substitute him in for our other strikers...

King: If the ball is 15 yards beyond the last defender he has a good chance of doing him for pace, yet his composure/finishing are a little shaky sometimes. If the ball is aimed at his head, as most balls are to Rhodes, chances are he won't be able to do much with it except chase people down til he's knackered.

Brown: Big lump, able to bully defenders so would win some headers that would go to... Oh wait, no player within twenty yards of him so although he looks good winning the headers, the end result is the same.

Gestede: More headers won, but still no balls into his feet so again, the headers won go to absolutely no one, so what's the point?

If we actually played the ball into Rhodes's feet and he lost it/didn't hold it up as well as the others then fair enough, you might have a point, BUT WE DON'T. I'd also argue Rhodes is a more intelligent player than both Brown and Gestede and usually finds feet with his passes (why he has a higher pass completion). Bowyer's entire tactic revolves around lumping it up top and hoping for the best, and the end result is the same no matter who is playing up top.

Instead of berating Rhodes, maybe you should be more critical of our lump-it football. It's not as if we adopted it just for the Liverpool game. We play the same nonsense football when facing Blackpool at home. Are our players THAT poor that Bowyer's football is actually a necessity and is bringing out the best in them? Is it balls.

[onlyonejackwalker]

What should be clear to one and all after recent Cup matches is that genuine pace upfront makes a huge difference to any teams play, attacking options and the associated field positions held during matches. For all the good he brings, playing the ponderous Rhodes up top alone severely limits our choices and negates our general play, particularly going forward. If only he could run!

On topic, when Rudy started warming up on 60 minutes (after Bowyers phone reminder had gone off) I presumed it would be a straight swap for the ineffectual but hard working Rhodes. If it isn't broke don't fix it and the formation was working ok, at least defensively. Or (giving Bowyer too much credit) perhaps Rhodes off and Spurr on to push Ollson forward to get a bit of pace going forward at last. (See Para 1).

I was therefore very suprised to see Rhodes stay on (0-0 at the time) and then watched miserably as he was asked to track back and then expected to run quickly (always a problem see Para 1) to defend against the lively Countinho. (Willimson didn't help).

It was pretty obvious before-hand how we needed to play with one upfront and a packed midfield. Work our socks off, trust to a little bit of luck and hopefully sneak a chance that came our way. The plan had worked for 150 minutes or so and there was no need to chase anything. Our lads were already tiring when asked to play 4-4-2 and although we are all experts with hindsight, my spider sense and foresight was working much better than Bowyers in this instance. A very poor choice in my view that ultimately cost us the game.

So the little bit of lipstick and rouge from the Cup Run has now ebbed away and we are left with what should have been absolute overriding priority all along.

Having said that, if I read anywwhere else, said with informed certainty, that there is nothing left to play for I think I will scream. We are losing 500k per week. Two million per month. It is being paid to people to professionally represent the club for the duration of the season. To give their all and to gain as many points as possible for this club. Nothing to left to play for? What about some personal and professional pride for a club losing a fortune whilst the players accrue millionaire status? In Bowyers shoes I would now be watching attitudes very closely to see who actually has the appetite for what will be required next season. He will probably give them a few days off, enquiring politely where they plan on going on holiday.

[blueboy3333]

Would somebody please tell 47er that he's ruined my day now.

Hope he's happy

he's like a child:-

insults someone said person responds, he gets upset and flounces off saying 'you're back on ignore'.

[Gav]

Would somebody please tell 47er that he's ruined my day now.

Hope he's happy

Thats brightened up my day, just made me laugh out loud, no offence 47er.

[Exiled in Toronto]

The interesting thing about a managerial change is almost every manager touted by fans on here has failed in his next job. We've been debating suitable managers since Bowyer was appointed, with some very good reasoned debate.

The worry is, I believe people on here have more idea about a new manager than Shaw, so what he comes up with is anyone’s guess.

I nailed my colors to the mast last night, after months of sticking with him, Bowyer in my opinion has to go, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

I'm intrigued as to why the Liverpool match turned you. Every one of my non Rovers supporting mates who watched the match praised how we did against them yet, on here, it's appraently proof positive the manager is hopeless. His tactical decisions over the last 18 months condemn him rather than being one kick away from taking Liverpool to extra time.

[47er]

Thats brightened up my day, just made me laugh out loud, no offence 47er.

Brightened my day too----if he was serious that is!

[tomphil]

I'm intrigued as to why the Liverpool match turned you. Every one of my non Rovers supporting mates who watched the match praised how we did against them yet, on here, it's appraently proof positive the manager is hopeless. His tactical decisions over the last 18 months condemn him rather than being one kick away from taking Liverpool to extra time.

It is a bit weird how he's just spun on a sixpence like Simon Garner after preaching the middle ground to everyone all season lol just because a couple of balls hit Rhodes down the throat

[yoda]

It is a bit weird how he's just spun on a sixpence like Simon Garner after preaching the middle ground to everyone all season lol just because a couple of balls hit Rhodes down the throat

Don Martin was the turn on a sixpence guy

[tomphil]

Afore my time. I always remember Jack Holden on radio lancs coming out with that one about Garner, never knew what a sixpence was though

[yoda]

Afore my time. I always remember Jack Holden on radio lancs coming out with that one about Garner, never knew what a sixpence was though

We used to sing "you've not seen nothing like Don Martin" to the Mighty Quinn song

[onlyonejackwalker]

We used to sing "you've not seen nothing like Don Martin" to the Mighty Quinn song

When I was a kid we were awarded a penalty at the Darwen End. It was 0-0. I was so nervous I couldn't bring myself to watch it taken. Our crowd soon told me it went in and I celebrated with everyone else. We won 1-0. Later I thought how stupid, I missed the goal! I never did that again.

Don Martin took that penalty. No idea which side it went in, did the keeper get a hand to it, did he blast it? Maybe a cute little chip down the middle? Mmmmm absolutely no idea.

[tomphil]

We used to sing "you've not seen nothing like Don Martin" to the Mighty Quinn song

Me and my mate used to sing that at school about Jimmy Quinn lol Something tells me he wasn't held in quite the same esteem as Don though !

[Waggy76]

Who do you think cares about that?

C'mo waggy76, don't leave it hanging. Tell us all please the appointment of whom exactly would make you buy another ST?

btw Is it only me who sees an ironical link in your "Kean Out" avatar and now your calling for Bowyer out on this thread?

If you were the owner of Blackburn Rovers Mr Drog , would you employ Gary Bowyer as the manager ?

[A cup of beans]

If you were the owner of Blackburn Rovers Mr Drog , would you employ Gary Bowyer as the manager ?

I doubt anybody at a decent level would employ GB.

Not playing any youngsters goes against the grain for a supposed renowned youth development guru.

Only possible explanation is : he's trying to spin a possible unbeaten run to con the owners that we are building or progressing.

I'm hoping he's at least in fear of the sack.