[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[JBiz]

Better.

Nope. But first we have to agree that Bowyer does set up the team and tactics and that his choice of players is down to him and no-one else. It is therefore his responsibility.

Bowyer sets up teams which are narrow, frequently playing 'wrong-footed' wingers on their respective opposite flanks. This can only be designed for players to cut inside or to be more comfortable facing their own goal.

He plays long ball football when he doesn't have Gestede on the pitch and instead has players aim the ball at Rhodes. This is not Rhodes' game.

He plays on the break when he has no pace in the team. He seems to hope that Rhodes will somehow get forward onto balls when we break out when Rhodes does not have pace.

Bowyer subscribes to "defence is the best form of defence" mentality. He defends corners with every single player back defending. If the ball is cleared it comes straight back in again. We cannot break out fast enough.

He visibly "shuts up shop" when winning 1-0. Sometimes at 0-0 preferring to keep players behind the ball and using Rhodes as a wild card. But if Rhodes doesn't score for a couple of games he is criticised and there are calls for him to be dropped (or even sold).

He selects players who he favours - frequently dropping players who are on form. I suspect we will lose decent players like King and Duffy because of this policy. Maybe this is some kind of self-serving notion because his players have come from the ranks. Or maybe they are the best exponents of the Bowyer brand of football. Either way it is counterproductive and is holding us back.

I think Bowyer is doing his best, and his best isn't good enough. I'm sure there are those who disagree but that shouldn't result in name calling.

Jordan Rhodes is a goal poacher. He knows exactly where the net is and will score time and time again. However, whether intended or not, he played in such a way that it does inhibit his scoring opportunities. What we need, in particular, is a general, an engine in midfield. Not one that ticks over all day like Lowe but one that can accelerate and manoeuvre and allow us to play the game more in the opponents half than our own and allow Rhodes more opportunity. Spearing and Tunnicliffe are/were about as close to that as we've had but Bowyer frequently doesn't/didn't play them. The team itself needs to be allowed to express itself more. The shackles are on far too much. Rhodes would benefit from a more attacking Rovers and we may even see a few others chip in with half a dozen - as is often seen in more successful championship teams. We have two goalscorers and the odd one or two from others because attacking football is not encouraged.

If I were to be cynical I'd say that Bowyer would be happier if Rhodes wasn't here. He is the only player not of his choosing and he does not know how to get the best out of him. An experienced manager would IMHO. I still maintain - even though you don't like it or agree - that Rhodes scores in spite of the way Bowyer sets up his teams and not because of it.

All that said, I do think that Bowyer is trying his best but the approach at all times is "must not lose" rather than "must win". Caution over passion. He is the antithesis of Tim Sherwood.

His incessant need to start the wingers on their opposite flanks irks me, he does rotate both during the games but I feel if 442 is the formation we should stick to Ripley on the right and Wilcox on the left!

To explain this as "defensive intention" or what you said seems cynical. I think it's more just a preference or style. We've had some good performances from this method of play, also with the left footed cairney on the right.

The freshest memory of out play is worth avoiding for a bigger picture.What I am pointing at is the talk regarding hoofing to rhodes, from my eyes we've only employed that tactic when performing badly or on the backfoot at home- and when the midfield goes missing - for example the Liverpool game.

I honestly think that we've succeeded in mixing the play up under bowyer, scoring inconsistently from set pieces, open play, possession periods, pressure, counter attack etc.

Keyword - inconsistent. Team selections, formations, tactics etc- had led directly to inconsistent results.

The tunnicliffe and spearing point you make directly links to this- we've not even had the choice to give either a consistent run. Both flattered in some games also, Spearing in particularly after the first two games.

I'm not convinced by this argument that our manager is simply too negative to even want to win a game.

The bigger picture to me suggests that upheaval and in experience affects consistent performance. We also have a squad with constant changes of personnel and a stream of injuries, again will affect that key word - consistency.

Jordan Rhodes job is to score goals. I am sure that he has missed more chances this season than last in terms of conversion rate. I may be wrong and potentially that's your next step statto. Khod reckons a player in behind is the right way but I'm not convinced. Funnily enough I think our best partner for his game is Brown, just from bits I've seen and as an extra his career and tally with Lee Novak (cite Chaddy2013). I really rate rhodes and I think he's got better as a player in the time he's been here I just think his lack of pace hinders his all round game. He will score goals in the right setup but do we have the correct other 10?

To say he scores in spite of or whatever- just cynical, but you pretty much admit that anyway. His lack of goals this term is likely down to the same inconsistency that's blown over the whole squad bar Olsson. That may be a result of a lot of things, and the managers inexperience will play a big part.

As for king and Duffy - neither has fully shown they are quality players. Yes, king on his day is king, but we've seen more hamstring injuries in two years than those performances. Duffy has a few years yet to show his potential, I am happy with his signing and i hope he returns from injury for preseason in time.

GB is not flawless by any stretch of the imagination. He makes decisions at times that baffle me but his record (in circumstances that many ignore or paint over) is decent, in my honest opinion.

There is still work to be done for the club in the circumstances that dictate our reality, still paying for mistakes made 2/3 years ago.

The best example to sum up GB's work that I've read is the two quarter final replays two years apart. The difference in atmosphere, emotion, performance, expectation etc... It's not a fluke.

GB needs to kick on and get a settled 11 that can execute a style that will get us out of this league. It's not exactly a simple task with the upheaval afoot. The last point, I agree an experienced manager like big Sam would have this squad in the premier league with his eyes shut, but the fact remains; they don't like those, and the gravy train brigade above could be likely replaced by another!

[DE.]

Give me your thoughts / options then DE rather than cheap shots as it's looking like you won't have the Rhodes/Gestede one and we are operating under a transfer embargo.

My thoughts are we need a manager who can manage the team effectively, we can worry about team building once we have an actual leader in the dugout.

It wasn't a cheap shot, btw, but a legitimate point. 10 goals in 105 apps for Josh King - do you not agree that we're screwed if we're relying on him and Brown up front next season?

[mustard]

It truly baffles me that some on here can badmouth Rhodes as a means of defending Bowyer and then follow it up by suggesting the future will be brighter with Brown and King leading the line. The justification of our shocking hoofball tactics coupled with the snide shots at the fans whilst lauding the real culprits to our demise is disgraceful.

Living in La La Land where Bowyer is king!

[tomphil]

His incessant need to start the wingers on their opposite flanks irks me, he does rotate both during the games but I feel if 442 is the formation we should stick to Ripley on the right and Wilcox on the left!

To explain this as "defensive intention" or what you said seems cynical. I think it's more just a preference or style. We've had some good performances from this method of play, also with the left footed cairney on the right.

The freshest memory of out play is worth avoiding for a bigger picture.What I am pointing at is the talk regarding hoofing to rhodes, from my eyes we've only employed that tactic when performing badly or on the backfoot at home- and when the midfield goes missing - for example the Liverpool game.

I honestly think that we've succeeded in mixing the play up under bowyer, scoring inconsistently from set pieces, open play, possession periods, pressure, counter attack etc.

Keyword - inconsistent. Team selections, formations, tactics etc- had led directly to inconsistent results.

The tunnicliffe and spearing point you make directly links to this- we've not even had the choice to give either a consistent run. Both flattered in some games also, Spearing in particularly after the first two games.

I'm not convinced by this argument that our manager is simply too negative to even want to win a game.

The bigger picture to me suggests that upheaval and in experience affects consistent performance. We also have a squad with constant changes of personnel and a stream of injuries, again will affect that key word - consistency.

Jordan Rhodes job is to score goals. I am sure that he has missed more chances this season than last in terms of conversion rate. I may be wrong and potentially that's your next step statto. Khod reckons a player in behind is the right way but I'm not convinced. Funnily enough I think our best partner for his game is Brown, just from bits I've seen and as an extra his career and tally with Lee Novak (cite Chaddy2013). I really rate rhodes and I think he's got better as a player in the time he's been here I just think his lack of pace hinders his all round game. He will score goals in the right setup but do we have the correct other 10?

To say he scores in spite of or whatever- just cynical, but you pretty much admit that anyway. His lack of goals this term is likely down to the same inconsistency that's blown over the whole squad bar Olsson. That may be a result of a lot of things, and the managers inexperience will play a big part.

As for king and Duffy - neither has fully shown they are quality players. Yes, king on his day is king, but we've seen more hamstring injuries in two years than those performances. Duffy has a few years yet to show his potential, I am happy with his signing and i hope he returns from injury for preseason in time.

GB is not flawless by any stretch of the imagination. He makes decisions at times that baffle me but his record (in circumstances that many ignore or paint over) is decent, in my honest opinion.

There is still work to be done for the club in the circumstances that dictate our reality, still paying for mistakes made 2/3 years ago.

The best example to sum up GB's work that I've read is the two quarter final replays two years apart. The difference in atmosphere, emotion, performance, expectation etc... It's not a fluke.

GB needs to kick on and get a settled 11 that can execute a style that will get us out of this league. It's not exactly a simple task with the upheaval afoot. The last point, I agree an experienced manager like big Sam would have this squad in the premier league with his eyes shut, but the fact remains; they don't like those, and the gravy train brigade above could be likely replaced by another!

The opposition made most of the difference in the quarter finals to be fair. Some good points but I just think that's what Bowyer is all about. 2 seasons on the bounce we've seen the same except this season with a slightly bigger and better squad we've seen even more swapping around and messing about before injuries really kicked in.

Shame because the times when he has changed things and used a different approach it tends to work. His core style doesn't really though. Maybe there is a case next season of playing 5 in midfield and adopting the thou shall not pass mindset against the best teams both home and away ? Think Bournemouth away etc, if we'd taken that approach at Norwich away & home, Brentford, Derby etc maybe we'd be a few points better off.

People would moan of course but it's about results and let's face it he'll never set out to go toe to toe with these sides so that poss should be plan A in those type of games.

[Stuart]

His incessant need to start the wingers on their opposite flanks irks me, he does rotate both during the games but I feel if 442 is the formation we should stick to Ripley on the right and Wilcox on the left!

To explain this as "defensive intention" or what you said seems cynical. I think it's more just a preference or style. We've had some good performances from this method of play, also with the left footed cairney on the right.

The freshest memory of out play is worth avoiding for a bigger picture.What I am pointing at is the talk regarding hoofing to rhodes, from my eyes we've only employed that tactic when performing badly or on the backfoot at home- and when the midfield goes missing - for example the Liverpool game.

I honestly think that we've succeeded in mixing the play up under bowyer, scoring inconsistently from set pieces, open play, possession periods, pressure, counter attack etc.

Keyword - inconsistent. Team selections, formations, tactics etc- had led directly to inconsistent results.

The tunnicliffe and spearing point you make directly links to this- we've not even had the choice to give either a consistent run. Both flattered in some games also, Spearing in particularly after the first two games.

I'm not convinced by this argument that our manager is simply too negative to even want to win a game.

The bigger picture to me suggests that upheaval and in experience affects consistent performance. We also have a squad with constant changes of personnel and a stream of injuries, again will affect that key word - consistency.

Jordan Rhodes job is to score goals. I am sure that he has missed more chances this season than last in terms of conversion rate. I may be wrong and potentially that's your next step statto. Khod reckons a player in behind is the right way but I'm not convinced. Funnily enough I think our best partner for his game is Brown, just from bits I've seen and as an extra his career and tally with Lee Novak (cite Chaddy2013). I really rate rhodes and I think he's got better as a player in the time he's been here I just think his lack of pace hinders his all round game. He will score goals in the right setup but do we have the correct other 10?

To say he scores in spite of or whatever- just cynical, but you pretty much admit that anyway. His lack of goals this term is likely down to the same inconsistency that's blown over the whole squad bar Olsson. That may be a result of a lot of things, and the managers inexperience will play a big part.

As for king and Duffy - neither has fully shown they are quality players. Yes, king on his day is king, but we've seen more hamstring injuries in two years than those performances. Duffy has a few years yet to show his potential, I am happy with his signing and i hope he returns from injury for preseason in time.

GB is not flawless by any stretch of the imagination. He makes decisions at times that baffle me but his record (in circumstances that many ignore or paint over) is decent, in my honest opinion.

There is still work to be done for the club in the circumstances that dictate our reality, still paying for mistakes made 2/3 years ago.

The best example to sum up GB's work that I've read is the two quarter final replays two years apart. The difference in atmosphere, emotion, performance, expectation etc... It's not a fluke.

GB needs to kick on and get a settled 11 that can execute a style that will get us out of this league. It's not exactly a simple task with the upheaval afoot. The last point, I agree an experienced manager like big Sam would have this squad in the premier league with his eyes shut, but the fact remains; they don't like those, and the gravy train brigade above could be likely replaced by another!

Good post. Although you seem to have strayed away from the question you asked (about getting the best out of Rhodes) to more about defensive tactics generally. I certainly do not believe that Bowyer uses Rhodes in the right way. If he isn't going to then one of them has to leave. The worry is where our goals will come from if both he and Gestede go.

You will never convince me that Bowyer's priority is to win games. His priority - from the way he sets out teams - is not too lose IMHO.

Hopefully he has stumbled on a successful defensive partnership - through injury and suspension. I've said before that the proof will be what Bowyer does when Hanley and Lowe are both available. Each time he has let me down by proving me right. Let's hope this time it's different.

If we can build on the ability to clean sheets and turn this into a platform for the midfield and forwards to attack then he will win me over. My worry is that I will be waiting a long time - possibly too long.

[Amo]

Either that or they're both 1 trick show ponies who sulked rather than got their heads down.[/size]

One trick is better than none.

[Athlete]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887744.Bowyer__Football_League_season_should_be_extended_to_help_teams_on_cup_runs/

never heard so much rubbish in my life...if you can't stand the heat get out the kitchen GB is nowhere near good enough to manage BRFC FACT

[ABBEY]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887732.Rovers_boss_Bowyer_keen_to_visit_India_for_Venky_s_transfer_embargo_talks/

here we go again ..venkygaryaph

[EgyptianPete]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887744.Bowyer__Football_League_season_should_be_extended_to_help_teams_on_cup_runs/

never heard so much rubbish in my life...if you can't stand the heat get out the kitchen GB is nowhere near good enough to manage BRFC FACT

Its called self preservation, as long as his excuses get back to Pune, that's his mantra

[DE.]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887744.Bowyer__Football_League_season_should_be_extended_to_help_teams_on_cup_runs/

never heard so much rubbish in my life...if you can't stand the heat get out the kitchen GB is nowhere near good enough to manage BRFC FACT

He should be thanking his lucky stars for our cup run... without it this season would have died a lot sooner, and fans would, imo, have been on his back a lot quicker.

[Athlete]

Its called self preservation, as long as his excuses get back to Pune, that's his mantra

yet some think he's a nice chap......

he'd get more respect if he'd hold his hands and say it hasn't worked out and resigned

[Amo]

Its called self preservation, as long as his excuses get back to Pune, that's his mantra

Surely Bowyer wouldn't put his own self-interest before Rovers?

[ABBEY]

yet some think he's a nice chap......

he'd get more respect if he'd hold his hands and say it hasn't worked out and resigned

The call was from the people on here who "know" him said he would do just this because he has rovers at heart ...cough cough ahem cough

[Parsonblue]

yet some think he's a nice chap......

he'd get more respect if he'd hold his hands and say it hasn't worked out and resigned

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

[Athlete]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

You cannot compare us to any of those three clubs PB....

Blackpool Screwed up

Wigan behind the scenes issues in a big way

Millwall - dont really know their problems

But none of the above have Rovers resources or are likely to

if your happy to be doing OK in a battle for the coveted ninth/tenth place spot and watching the total dross be on display week in week out then thats your perogative

as for taking us forward hes taking us backwards....

Surely Bowyer wouldn't put his own self-interest before Rovers?

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887732.Rovers_boss_Bowyer_keen_to_visit_India_for_Venky_s_transfer_embargo_talks/

off to Bullshit

[ABBEY]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

FORWARD? WE ARE IN REVERSE THOUGH.

[47er]

Bowyer has not taken the club forward from last season PB. That is indisputable.

[ABBEY]

Last year was 23 points off promotion I think ...it currently stands at 21 with lots left .

[Athlete]

FORWARD? WE ARE IN REVERSE THOUGH.

can't get my head around people still after over two years sticking up for GB....It's a results driven game and after all this time........

I wished him well but it hasn't worked out ...time to go Gazza

[Amo]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

He's too busy covering his own ass with excuses, like being jealous of Brentford, than getting on with the job at hand. That's why we'll never achieve anything under this guy, he's not a born winner. He's an academy coach who can't deal with the pressure of having to actually get results. Do you think the Ginger Mourinho made excuses about the football calendar when he got the Dingle's small squad promoted? No, because he demands the most from himself and those around him. Something they could desperately do with down Brockhall from the sounds of it.

[K-Hod]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

If we finish lower than last season, by definition it's impossible to have taken us forward. Unless we miraculously finish top 6 (which ain't gonna happen) then we've stagnated at best.

[Exiled in Toronto]

You cannot compare us to any of those three clubs PB....

Blackpool Screwed up

Wigan behind the scenes issues in a big way

Millwall - dont really know their problems

But none of the above have Rovers resources or are likely to

if your happy to be doing OK in a battle for the coveted ninth/tenth place spot and watching the total dross be on display week in week out then thats your perogative

as for taking us forward hes taking us backwards....

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12887732.Rovers_boss_Bowyer_keen_to_visit_India_for_Venky_s_transfer_embargo_talks/

off to Bullshit

Glad to hear we haven't screwed up, got big behind the scenes issues or some unknown problems....

[Athlete]

Glad to hear we haven't screwed up, got big behind the scenes issues or some unknown problems....

my point is EIT

the resources ie : a 20 plus goal a season 8 million striker , etc etc

[Stuart]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

With all due respect, if we want until then it will be too late.

[EgyptianPete]

The guy believes he can take the club forward, which he has done thus far. No reason to resign when you are doing a decent job. If we were in the same place as Blackpool, Millwall or Wigan it would be a different matter but we are not, we are doing OK, not as great as we might have hoped for, but doing OK, all things considered.

Ha i see you are his PA,

No, come on PB some of the football has been bad, really bad, the players are not fit hence all the injuries, there is no way we have improved on last season, oh and remember PB Gazza has had a further season to improve, not so my friend.