[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[JBiz]

Anyone get the distinct impression Parson's happy for Rovers to become a feeder-club for the PL so long as Mrs. D thinks his mate's doing a grand job?

No, but I get the distinct feeling people will continue to lambast opinions that differ from their own. For instance, the passive aggressive "his mate" is entirely uneccesary.

I think GB has done a great job I the circumstances, does that make him my mate too?

You're right. Let's all live in fear. Who's joining my under the duvet?

I think that you could turn that on its head and apply it to the sentiment- everytime you bleat GB out, you're essentially hiding your head "under the duvet" at the possible outcome.

[Blue blood]

Ian Holloway another superstar manager out. Malky Mackay struggling, Chris Hughton near the bottom. All names mentioned as potential managers. I think I will stick with Gary..

Where to go with this logic?

1) Circumstances - Holloway had a very hard gig at Millwall, very small budget, took over a team that'd started appallingly under the previous manager, likewise Brighton and Wigan were doing poorly under their previous managers. Oh and all 3 have promotions to the premier league on their CV which is more than Bowyer has.

2) Let's talk about independent facts. Ignoring how these other managers have been doing, or even if we were to say they are doing badly, that does not make Bowyer doing a good job. Nowhere near promotion with the squad we have, the wage budget we have - you call that a good job? Irrespective of the trio mentioned none of their failures means Bowyer is doing a good job. Their performances are mutually exclusive.

3) Now whilst IMO Mackay's a muppet, but given the trash that has been coming out of Bowyer's mouth the last few months about player value and fantastic owners, irrespective of results (which FA Cup aside have been poor) that's not the kind of guy I want managing Rovers.

4) The implication of your post is that there are no better managers than Bowyer out there. Disagree strongly. There are - both at other clubs and out of work, My two picks would be Greyson in work and Adkins out of work. But there are other options out there too worth considering too.

5) Hindsight is a wonderful thing. For the three we steered clear of - what if we'd have gone for Jackett or McCarthy when they were available? Both doing cracking jobs. Hindsight works both ways, and if anything shows we could and should have appointed better.

[Jimmy612]

Ah yes, the old " if you didn't go you can't comment " routine I have been watching football a lot longer than Sutton has been on the planet.

The point I was making was about how qualified is Sutton to say GB has done a fantastic job. GB has done some good things for sure no argument from me on that point.

You have hit the nail on the head though, is he good enough for the next stage ?

What he has done or not done to get us to this stage should be a minor consideration if we are indeed determined to get back to the PL.

GB has been shown to be tactically lacking this season hence mid table "stability"

On a few occasions he has got right and rightly praised for it like at Liverpool. Is he going to be able to do it on a consistent basis though, will the owners have the patience to wait and see, will the supporters get over the frustrations and have patience with him ? The reducing attendances suggest not at the moment.

You were asking how long has Sutton been a manager, not how long has he been watching football. I'd wager you've also been watching football longer than Jose Mourinho but with all due respect, I know which one I'd have in charge at Ewood.

Similarly Sutton will have forgotten more about professional football than me and you could ever hope to know - therefore his point of view is probably quite valid.

Rest of the post I agree with. Worryingly it would appear that the owners will have the patience to stick with him - it's shown in the past that they can be incredibly loyal to managers, particularly it would seem if they come under pressure by the fanbase. Not sacking him could prove extremely detrimental in due course - mind you, so could sacking him unless a competent selection process was carried out. Rock and a hard place if you ask me.

@#/? it, close the bloody messageboard - what does it really matter.

[Gav]

Ian Holloway another superstar manager out. Malky Mackay struggling, Chris Hughton near the bottom. All names mentioned as potential managers. I think I will stick with Gary..

Add OGS and wee Dougie to that list and you have all the managers most people fancied to take over at Ewood.

Whilst Bowyer has his faults, he's done a much better job than all those higher profile managers have.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Savage stuck up for Kean on numerous occasions when the fans had enough, we all know who was spot on that time. Just because you were a professional footballer and played for Rovers doesn't guarantee you are right. Besides managers do tend to stick together, do you ever see a fellow manager say another is poor and should go?

The FA Cup run while welcome has papered over the cracks and even if we end up winning the competition it means nothing financially to our current plight. Bowyer and the players would admit promotion is by far and away the only priority and for another season results tell it like it is, Bowyer has failed.

[Jimmy612]

Savage stuck up for Kean on numerous occasions when the fans had enough, we all know who was spot on that time. Just because you were a professional footballer and played for Rovers doesn't guarantee you are right. Besides managers tend to stick together, do you ever see a fellow manager say another is poor and should go?

The FA Cup run while welcome has papered over the cracks and even if we end up winning the competition it means nothing financially to our current plight. Bowyer and the players would admit promotion is the no.1 priority and for another season results tell it like it is, Bowyer has failed.

In the fans opinion of course. Although he did always maintain that it would take time, and I'm pretty sure that's what he and the owners have discussed in the past.

Whether next season will actualyl involve a promotion push is anyone's guess - based on the evidence I've seen there isn't a chance of it realistically.

[No Nay Never]

Parson, I really don't know why you bother, you speak nothing but sense...

Sadly sense is no longer the norm on this forum.

[Jimmy612]

Parson, I really don't know why you bother, you speak nothing but sense...

Sadly sense is no longer the norm on this forum.

Doesn't feature prominently in the Rovers entire fanbase to be honest. There have been plenty of examples of non-sensical actions taken by the Rovers faithful. A lot of it is an inability to formulate an opinion and just follow the crowd in my opinion.

Funnily enough though our entire football club doesn't make sense anymore; so why should the supporters formulate sensible opinions about non-sensical matters. Am I making sense? Sense

[No Nay Never]

Doesn't feature prominently in the Rovers entire fanbase to be honest. There have been plenty of examples of non-sensical actions taken by the Rovers faithful. A lot of it is an inability to formulate an opinion and just follow the crowd in my opinion.

Funnily enough though our entire football club doesn't make sense anymore; so why should the supporters formulate sensible opinions about non-sensical matters. Am I making sense? Sense

All true jimmy, perfect sense!

[Rover_Shaun]

It's all made up I tell thee. Venkys are astute and Bowyer's Nottinghams answer to Enzo Bearzot.

[Amo]

I take it you don't remember the days before Jack then?

No, Parson, nor do I need to. The circumstances back then and circumstances now are not comparable in the slightest.

I'm sure as hell glad that Uncle Jack didn't have your small-time mentality when he aspired to raise this club into something more than it was.

No, but I get the distinct feeling people will continue to lambast opinions that differ from their own. For instance, the passive aggressive "his mate" is entirely uneccesary.

I think GB has done a great job I the circumstances, does that make him my mate too?

I think that you could turn that on its head and apply it to the sentiment- everytime you bleat GB out, you're essentially hiding your head "under the duvet" at the possible outcome.

Maybe the 'mate' remarks have something to do with Parson's seemingly blind support of the manager?

We keep hearing about the extenuating circumstances that Bowyer's had to work under but I've yet to see them in practical terms. He's been allowed to bring in a high turnover of players, had unwanted players paid off, kept hold of his best assets, and hasn't been undermined by boardroom infighting. As an overpromoted coach I'd say he's done a fair job but taken the club as far as he can. 'Great' would be promotion contenders but apart from the two seconds we were in the top six we've never looked like going up.

[DE.]

I'm sure as hell glad that Uncle Jack didn't have your small-time mentality when he aspired to raise this club into something more than it was.

Thank goodness we still have some fans who aren't willing to accept mediocrity and a sub-par club either.

Of course, the same people espousing the "we are where we are" mentality were also telling us for years that we were destined to drop, and are now rewriting history to suggest our relegation was inevitable and we were always destined to return to a lowly status.

Oddly, this completely ignores the fact we stayed in the PL and at times thrived in the PL for over ten years after Jack passed on. For many of those years we had little funds, in comparison with the rest of the division, but countered that disadvantage with superb staff at board level and managers who could get the best out of limited resources. We had a blip with Ince but bounced back by appointing Big Sam and once again holding our own in the land of the giants.

Our demise only became "inevitable" when Venky's came to town, ripped apart the board structure, binned off a great manager, replaced him with a rookie, sold off all of our good players and left us in a mess we have never recovered from. Why should anybody accept this as the natural order of things? Why should we be remotely happy or content watching our club spiral into a financial black hole whilst we still employ a rookie manager and employ a board room with no talent, passion or pride.

Good on those who demand better. This isn't how it was meant to be and I fail to see how anything substantial has changed since Venky's first came to town and disemboweled everything, taking a @#/? on the legacy of this club and doing it with an arrogance that drove thousands of fans to exile.

[JBiz]

We keep hearing about the extenuating circumstances that Bowyer's had to work under but I've yet to see them in practical terms.

He's been allowed to bring in a high turnover of players, had unwanted players paid off,

You give one of the circumstances a mention. Name a manager who inherited a squad choc full of players who needed paying off? A squad misshapen and abused by people with their face deep in the trough.

Or the distinct negative atmosphere inherited? Does that even qualify as a factor, to a fan who's not there to examine it's toxic nature? No surprise that we performed admirably on a bigger stage in front of more passionate audience.

(Queue "stop blaming the fans")

[imy9]

You give one of the circumstances a mention. Name a manager who inherited a squad choc full of players who needed paying off? A squad misshapen and abused by people with their face deep in the trough.

Or the distinct negative atmosphere inherited? Does that even qualify as a factor, to a fan who's not there to examine it's toxic nature? No surprise that we performed admirably on a bigger stage in front of more passionate audience.

(Queue "stop blaming the fans")

Leeds United would be the closest club imo. Look where they are.

[Parsonblue]

No, Parson, nor do I need to. The circumstances back then and circumstances now are not comparable in the slightest.

FFP has made the circumstances very similar indeed. Of course, if you judge everything from 1991 onwards then I can see why you struggle with the present situation, it's understandable.

[Gav]

I thought Roy Kean made a good point after Utds loss to Arsenal yesterday.

He basically said that most fans haven't got a clue about what it takes to build a football club. He said LVH should be given 2/3yrs to build up the club.

LVH has untold riches at his fingertips and top players already at his disposal. Compare his job to Bowyers and it sort of puts things into perspective.

[gumboots]

The problem is PB that we have gone backwards this season. It's that that makes me unhappy. The product on offer (and like it or not modern football is a product as much as it's anything else) is tedious in the extreme and the league position is not as good. We are miles off playoff places. I don't see any comparisons with Kean in that bowyer is honest and down to earth and you see occasionally as on bt this weekend the sparks of humour when he feels comfortable and is with guys he understands who aren't asking awkward questions. But in most tv interviews he comes across as as dull as most of the football we've seen played, uninspiring and making excuses. I want bowyer to succeed still but success has to include seeing my team do well on the pitch and not just for random fa cup games. It has to include some excitement. It has to include hope of progress in terms of league position. It has to see the manager progressing, getting more right than wrong, building a team with some chance of keeping the core of it going together. I don't expect the best years of the premier league to come back instantly. I've spent most of my football watching life watching lower league football. But I do expect progress however slow to be made. And this year I can't see it. I really can't.

[ada2020]

I thought Roy Kean made a good point after Utds loss to Arsenal yesterday.

He basically said that most fans haven't got a clue about what it takes to build a football club. He said LVH should be given 2/3yrs to build up the club.

LVH has untold riches at his fingertips and top players already at his disposal. Compare his job to Bowyers and it sort of puts things into perspective.

However, Bowyer is a year further into the job than Van Gaal, and despite the continent sized difference in player resources Bowyer still has a team that should be doing better. He has resources and facilities that some in this league can only dream of. And the unquestioned loyalty of the owners.

Despite all this and starting well, the team has gone backwards.

He can't pick the same 11 week in week out, through no other reason than he likes to tinker.

Roy Keane may be right about fans, but even our diminished understanding of the game can't cover up the fact this team and Bowyer should be doing better.

And don't mention the embargo, it's only affected one window and he's still been given cash for loans.

[ABBEY]

The problem is PB that we have gone backwards this season. It's that that makes me unhappy. The product on offer (and like it or not modern football is a product as much as it's anything else) is tedious in the extreme and the league position is not as good. We are miles off playoff places. I don't see any comparisons with Kean in that bowyer is honest and down to earth and you see occasionally as on bt this weekend the sparks of humour when he feels comfortable and is with guys he understands who aren't asking awkward questions. But in most tv interviews he comes across as as dull as most of the football we've seen played, uninspiring and making excuses. I want bowyer to succeed still but success has to include seeing my team do well on the pitch and not just for random fa cup games. It has to include some excitement. It has to include hope of progress in terms of league position. It has to see the manager progressing, getting more right than wrong, building a team with some chance of keeping the core of it going together. I don't expect the best years of the premier league to come back instantly. I've spent most of my football watching life watching lower league football. But I do expect progress however slow to be made. And this year I can't see it. I really can't.

exactly ...first we had to accept it was all about stabilty, then we had to accept humungous debts and then we had to accept progress which is actually digress but some think its ok.

[den]

I thought Roy Kean made a good point after Utds loss to Arsenal yesterday.

He basically said that most fans haven't got a clue about what it takes to build a football club.

His managerial record suggests he knows no more than us.

Sorry Gav, I don't buy your latest repeated point that us fans know nothing. You might keep changing your mind, but a lot don't.

[Gav]

However, Bowyer is a year further into the job than Van Gaal, and despite the continent sized difference in player resources Bowyer still has a team that should be doing better. He has resources and facilities that some in this league can only dream of. And the unquestioned loyalty of the owners.

Despite all this and starting well, the team has gone backwards.

He can't pick the same 11 week in week out, through no other reason than he likes to tinker.

Roy Keane may be right about fans, but even our diminished understanding of the game can't cover up the fact this team and Bowyer should be doing better.

And don't mention the embargo, it's only affected one window and he's still been given cash for loans.

Yes you could well be right Ada, on all those points.

I guess with Venky's always taking the easy option when it comes recruitment, we'll quite possibly see how Craig Short does with the same team and same options as Bowyer once he's releived of his duties.

[imy9]

His managerial record suggests he knows no more than us.

Sorry Gav, I don't buy your latest repeated point that us fans know nothing. You might keep changing your mind, but a lot don't.

To be fair to Keane, he has been successful as a club manager before and his record as a player suggests that he knows a little more than the average fan

[den]

Yes you could well be right Ada, on all those points.

I guess with Venky's always taking the easy option when it comes recruitment, we'll quite possibly see how Craig Short does with the same team and same options as Bowyer once he's releived of his duties.

Well if he is appointed then we'll call him out as well if he's not up to it. Will you Gav?

[Gav]

Well if he is appointed then we'll call him out as well if he's not up to it. Will you Gav?

I support all Blackburn Rovers managers den until they deserve my support no more.

Short would get my support, but like Bowyer I'd agree he'd probably not be up to it.

[ABBEY]

short gets shorty support ,the irony hahaha good job we didnt sign shane long .