[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Reedy You're A Star]

My point was that they've had a shorter amount of time to get to grips with their respective squads and get them playing how they want. They've all managed to do it a lot better and quicker than Bowyer. He's managed teams, albeit at youth level for a long time, the rest were assistants (I'll give you McClaren and Jackett) If the class of the boss they were assistant under was any measurement of how good they are as managers then we'd have challenged for the title with Brian Kidd instead of getting relegated, so that doesn't come into it at all.

[Jimmy612]

we're only 2 points worse off than this time last year and we were restricted to freebies last summer whilst other teams have spent quite big money or got expensive loans in. If the squad wasn't good enough last season then it certainly isn't this year in a much stronger league. It all depends on whether you think the squad was good enough last year. The tactical ineptitude claim is wide of the mark imo, the team is inconsistent and too negative at times but we no longer get rolled over like we did at the beginning of Bowyers tenure. We've also just gone 8 games away unbeaten, that doesn't normally happen if the manager doesn't know what he's doing, especially a manager that is so new.

We'd all love a Mick McCarthy who has done an amazing job with Ipswich, or a Warburton at Brentford who plays great football (but who spent £5m more money than Bowyer last summer) but until the Venky's start taking advice from proper football people then it isn't going to happen. Bowyer has done a good job since he took over and continues to imo. Things could be a lot, lot worse, and are at many clubs who haven't gone through the amount of upheavel and destruction our club has in the last 5 years.

Garbage? have we been relegated? did we have a great and exciting cup run? or did we just go through a season with highs and lows whilst under a transfer embargo and remain competetive? It's been dull at times, and frustrating, but not garbage.

Blueboy you always put your points across constructively from what I've read, and I also think your points are at least backed up with sensible, well informed consideration.

However, surely we need to acheive promotion for this football club to continue to exist, never mind compete within the top two leagues of England for years to come. What has happened with Venkys has set us back to pre-Jack times, but football has changed since then. Without a financial safety net we're unfortunately heading towards oblivion - that safety net can at least be partially put in place with £120m of tv money.

So, what do we do now? Can you see Bowyer taking us into the play-offs and/or automatic places? Sadly I can't. Every time we begin to string together a good run and look like challenging the top 6, we immediately follow that up with a run of defeats and disappointing draws to take us back to mid-table obscurity. We have what I would consider to be a more than decent squad for this league.... making comparisons with other clubs how many would you say are better than ours man for man?

If I was Mrs D and the two brothers then I'd be looking very very closely at the available options. To be honest without having a day-to-day involvement within football it's always very difficult to establish the quality of a manger. Warburton has done a great job at Brentford but that doesn't mean he'll walk into Ewood and work miracles, rather like Howe did nothing at Burnley. Selecting a manager to fit a club is probably the toughest job in football - but if this club is serious about preserving it's long term future then it's a process that should already be underway. Not with the absolute certainty that we will replace Bowyer, but certainly understanding that better options probably are available.

We're on the edge of precipice here, and just hanging on and closing your eyes is no good to anyone. That is what I believe Venkys are doing. They've had their fingers burned since 2010 and now appear happy to continue with a man who seemingly is honest and has the best interests of the club at heart (despite what some would have you believe on here). There's been a lot of @#/?-stirring on here when it comes to Bowyer - the 'Venkys pick the team' I found quite amusing personally. It seems that whenever a manager isn't quite meeting expectations, not only are they perhaps inferior in their job, but they are also the devil incarnate. The last few years has made some fans suspicious of their own shadow.

Anyway - - point is; I like the guy and I think he's done a decent job for 2 years now. However, in our delicate situation we MUST acheive promotion -is he really capable of that? And if not, then what are the club going to do about it?

[Rover_Shaun]

Why? Because he's managed to keep Derby in this league for two seasons?

Let's not beat around the bush, stevie mack has failed at derby. Granted the seasons not over but if they miss out via play offs again (which looks likely) he most certainly will have failed his remit.

As were talking levels of failure of remits McClaren can't see Bowyer he's that far in the back distance

[Gav]

----------------------------

So the Push for Promotion became the Promotion Pledge.

So what's the mantra for next season? "Watch paint dry with Gaz and the Lads"**

**paint not included

------------------

I'm not sure how you can come to such conclusions whilst spending most Saturday afternoons shopping on Fishergate in Preston.

Also comparing Bowyer to **** is so far wide of the mark its untrue, but if you keep throwing enough mud, and you do keep throwing it shaun, some will stick and the sheep on here are sure to follow.

I noticed Steve Clarke is in the paper this morning moaning about fixture pile up etc, I'm sure most people will agree with him, its only an excuse when it comes from Bowyer

Bowyer has his faults, the main one being he's very inexperienced, but some of the stick he gets on here is unwarranted, thankfully its not a real representation of what goes on in the real world.

[DE.]

Completely disagree with the rhetoric that this is a strong league. Absolute nonsense imo. Norwich and Watford have decent teams, the rest of the top 8 are above average at best with some very good managers at the helm. The fact is below Wolves the teams in this league are pretty awful. Abysmal once you get to the likes of Wigan, Rotherham and Millwall. I don't even know what class you'd put Blackpool in, they're so bad.

The fact the likes of Ipswich, Brentford and Wolves cans seriously challenge for playoff spots with the players at their disposal proves there are a lot of poor teams in the league this year - the difference, clearly, has been the management at these clubs.

McCarthy, Jackett, Warburton - all done very well, implemented solid styles of football and improved their players through their coaching staff.

Remember Watford and Boro got nowhere near the playoffs last season - their squads haven't changed that much. They just have better managers. The management team is the most important aspect of any team in this division, due to the sheer amount of average players clogging up the squads. An extra 5% makes all the difference.

Sticking with Bowyer means accepting mediocrity when we really don't have to. Some seem happy to plod along in this division for the foreseeable future, which is odd considering the club simply cannot afford to do so. The only thing that's stable about this club is the amount of debt it's accruing.

[Rover_Shaun]

I love old chestnuts. I'm not a fan of Fishergate myself Gav or Preston. Though The Conti is a great place to unwind. Any attempts at shopping, we both hate it, soon end up with us both finding a pub. It's usually Manchester. The call from The Britons Protection et al is too strong.

But as the ST selling mantra is an attempt to retain and regain I have every right to comment. There really is no selling it. It's a hard gig even for a competent Commercial Director...............oh eck!

The comment in the Daily Mail originated from somewhere and that somewhere will be a representative of a G. Bowyer. Exactly as happened under Kean. Whilst Kean was in his own rat league to paint Bowyer as some white knight is very naive. And I know you are not naive Gav. As someone said we are entering the self preservation period.

[Gav]

Why? Because he's managed to keep Derby in this league for two seasons?

Let's not beat around the bush, stevie mack has failed at derby. Granted the seasons not over but if they miss out via play offs again (which looks likely) he most certainly will have failed his remit.

He's failing on a major scale also, look at the loans he's brought in:

Lingard

Bent

Ince

Shotton

You should be walking the league with those players, they form the spine of the team, very strong additions.

[Rover_Shaun]

As someone said Gav, even King Kenny just limped into the play-offs. There's a long way to go for Derby yet.........oh if only!

[DE.]

He's failing on a major scale also, look at the loans he's brought in:

Lingard

Bent

Ince

Shotton

You should be walking the league with those players, they form the spine of the team, very strong additions.

Can't really say he's failed until the end of the season. If they go up via the playoffs he'll have been successful, regardless of where they finish.

The real success story this season is Bournemouth. Incredible management from Howe there. If Ipswich get into the playoffs they will have majorly overachieved as well.

[Gav]

Though The Conti is a great place to unwind.

The comment in the Daily Mail originated from somewhere and that somewhere will be a representative of a G. Bowyer. Exactly as happened under Kean. Whilst Kean was in his own rat league to paint Bowyer as some white knight is very naive. And I know you are not naive Gav. As someone said we are entering the self preservation period.

The contis a good boozer you're right

As for sound bytes in the paper, he's saying no different than any other manager in the country in his position, and you should read the daily mail, its a rag of a paper.

Can't really say he's failed until the end of the season. If they go up via the playoffs he'll have been successful, regardless of where they finish.

The real success story this season is Bournemouth. Incredible management from Howe there. If Ipswich get into the playoffs they will have majorly overachieved as well.

You're right of course, but they should be up already with those players!

As for Bournemouth, bought by the fans and look at them now, people take note!

[joey_big_nose]

In my opinion there are eight concrete negative assessments you can lay at Bowyer's door for this season

1) Promoting to captain and persisting with Hanley despite dire performances

2) Not signing any pacy players which has really hurt us tactically as we get boxed in by the opposition

3) The defence being a total shambles till we settled on Baps and Kilgallion and that occured only due to injury

4) Failure to find a quality dependable central midfielder despite a lot of bites at the cherry (Williamson, Cairney, Spearing, Evans). Still a huge issue as while all have had good individual games but none have convinced over the course of 3 or 4

5) That the only player to have definitely improved this year is Olsson

6) That Cairney, Marshall, Evans, Conway - all of whom had decent seasons last year and a big reason for optimism and plaudits for GB - have gone backwards

7) That we have never found a consistent effective tactical setup. We lack clarity about how we want to play. Rhodes particularly looks totally lost (I have a bit of sympathy for Bowyer here as he did try and sell Rhodes but was overruled by Pune)

8) Brown and Duffy look mediocre signings who add little to the squad

Last season there were quite a lot of reasons to commend GB for a good job and look forward to the next season. However this year I would only really say

1) The defence now seems adequate but more through luck than judgement. (Can't say I am confident it will continue once Hanley and Duffy are available again)

2) Fantastic tactics in the FA cup run. Hats off for that. Easily Bowyer's highpoint of the season.

3) Despite their regression Cairney and Marshall continue to look like quality players in this league so hopefully they will kick on next year (Evans and Conway on the other hand look to not have the quality to be more than squad players)

4) Baptiste looks a good signing (providing we can make him perm), Spearing maybe also though he started well and has faded a bit.

5) We seem to have sorted the keeper situation which is good.

So hardly a ringing endorsement... All of these good points do not suggest a future reform of our problems, just a few small improvements overshadowed by other larger failings. If I had any confidence in Pune to select someone better I would be calling for a change in manager. As it is I am loathe to let those clowns loose again to find the next Berg or Appleton. So I don't know what to think really.

On top of that Gestede, Rhodes and King will all leave, we are likely to have no cash to spend and are under embargo... Argh. Total nightmare.

[ABBEY]

now stop being a boring little child and giving people you don't agree with 'hilarious' nicknames. As you hate everything about the club should i call you 'dingle'?

If you think it's garbage you can vote with your feet next season. i don't agree it's been garbage.

Hate everything about the club? only thing I hate is the infestation of VENKYSCUM.

[thenodrog]

Why do you insist on trying to reinvent the wheel? There is no blue sky thinking needed. No magic wand solution only you can think of. You know the answers and have stated it often enough in other discussions. Success comes before work only in the dictionary. The club needs uniting. Some excitement. A proper figurehead. Den thinks a quality CEO would be enough, I think it's simpler. Leave Shaw plodding about losing money with the owners. An Allardyce figure would get at least another 10 point's a year out of these gelled up wannabees and you know it. We need an urgent return back to the PL. You talk about business. How does 100 million turnover sound? Why you ponce about on the fence over Bowyer irritates. Many of our immediate worries are solved with promotion. Especially if we managed to stay up by some miracle.

As long as the fools keep paying the bills we live to fight another day. The trick offield is how to unite everyone else irrespective of them. I'd rally everyone internally and go back to the fans begging forgiveness and ask for help. It's still Rovers. It's a big name. Decent marketers would have a field day building that back up. It's sat there waiting. Some attacking play at home would help. The fans still have half an eye on things even if it's only scousers that get them to the ground. And our away support is very good. I'd go to them as well.

Answer me this. How does 100 million sound when the cheque is made out to Venkys? You know those 'fools' who keep paying the bills. There'll be so much siphoned off (and it would definitely be their preogative) it would make make Karl Oyston appear like a registered charity.

[thenodrog]

Gary Bowyer will head off to Pune following the end of the season for a pre-arranged end of season review meeting. I would be majorly surprised if he is sacked, he will instead be given the mandate from Mrs D to carry on for a further 12 months. Budgets for the forthcoming season will be broadly agreed at this meeting and strategies from the clubs executive in relation to dealing with FFP will be put forward.

There is no indication coming from within Ewood or from Pune that GB's job is under threat, I am sure that the chuckle brothers will want some answers for what has happened this season but while Mrs D continues to support Gary his job is not under threat and to be fair from what I have seen at Ewood whilst fans have been disappointed with performances and have vented frustrations there has been no huge calling for Gary's head.

Personally I am very frustrated with what has happened this season, I feel that the squad is good enough to be seriously challenging for a top 6 place but since the start of the year we have no performed anywhere near the level that we should be at (apart from the FA Cup performances) and the buck for that has to stop at the manager's door, I don't want to see excuses from the manager, I want honest answers for why we have regressed this year, I accept that the FFP embargo will have played some part in that but that does not excuse the tactical ineptitude that we have seen at times over the last few months.

Thanks for that Kamy... Can really see keeping GB will sell loads more season tickets NOT and we can look forward to another season of garbage

Chalk and cheese. Two posts close together and illustrating the range of quality of this mb.

[Iceman]

at the end of the day, this is a results driven business. Bowyer has delivered very little in terms of results, so imo if we want to progress, he is not the man for the job next season. Thats my personal point of view, and ill stick to that. We accept everything these days, just so that we can avoid talking about Bowyer being an average manager at best. And i say manager with a big question mark attached to it, because he is a coach and nothing more.

I would love to have seen him succeed, but he has failed to deliver promotion which is what we wanted. after 3 years, thats unacceptable with the amount of money we have pumped in on players.

let me repeat, this is my opinion, and ill stand by it. But if we are happy with the stability theory, and happy with mid table safety in the championship, then Bowyer is the man. If we want to go up, we need to find a manager who is not afraid to make a substitute whenever one is needed, or to rip into these players when they let a lead slip for the umpteenth time.

[Tom]

I thinks it's disappointing that he will remain as manager but now accepting of the fact.

The cup run was a brilliant diversion but the season is ultimately ending in failure, more would be accepting of that if we had gone about it with some purpose but the home performances this season have been shocking on the whole. We never ever set out to control a game and are more often that not on the back foot, the manager still seems unable to make a sub to change the game in our favour and when an opposition manager changes it up we are too slow to adapt.

Shades of last season and our fruitless unbeaten run with out unbeaten away run but there are no real signs that will lead to anything positive.

At least the hardcore fans that travel away have had some good showings this season but most season ticket holders will be left feeling cold. Even chaddy turned at one point before changing his mind and Gav who has been as patient as anyone is now of the thinking his time should be at an end.

[thenodrog]

Errr, I remember plenty on here saying they wouldnt have Big MIck.....

A roller coaster career though hasn't he? Mick's a pragmatic, solid, no nonsense football manager. He doesn't have an ounce of flair or charisma on his cv but he understands football and footballers. BUT remember our crew behind the goals don't like that sort do they? Wouldn't be 5 mins before they'd be after his head if he came here and be booing for all they were worth should we ever get 3-0 up with 5 mins to play against a close rival!

However it should be noted that the further a club falls down the league the lower it's expectations become.

If you think it's garbage you can vote with your feet next season. i don't agree it's been garbage.

Me neither. I'd describe our season as slightly above average and slightly below expectations, given the way we finished last season and the way we started this with Gestede playing out of his skin . His form slumped (distraction of another club / his agent filling his head with crap imo) mid season and so did our hopes.

[tomphil]

I completely disagree. Two teams running away with it with the rest miles behind is a sign of a weak league, eg Scottish prem pre Rangers demotion. This year there are six or seven really good teams imo, all of who would give the Burnley and Leicester of last year a good game. Their records are worse as there are only the same number of points to play for, but spread across more teams in contention.

I know what your saying but having seen all the oppo at least once I think it's been pretty average with teams who are up for it and willing to go for the win game after game the ones who prevail. We have this real habit of making sides look better than they are but only Norwich both home and away I'd say would probably have beaten us whether we played our best or not. Derby were good at Ewood but we weren't and got it all wrong yet still had them on the ropes for the last 15 and should have forced a draw. Away he got it terribly wrong and we didn't show up at all, same as Brentford away and home to them we were knackered and seemingly not up for it. Watford / Boro we've held our own against as with plenty others.

I could name about ten games were there was a genuine case for the tactics holding us back although some go down on paper at least as credible draws but Norwich aside I've seen nothing this season that we couldn't have got something from had we fought fire with fire as we are capable of doing on our day. Sadly we don't have that mindset in the camp.

[den]

Why do you insist on trying to reinvent the wheel? There is no blue sky thinking needed. No magic wand solution only you can think of. You know the answers and have stated it often enough in other discussions. Success comes before work only in the dictionary. The club needs uniting. Some excitement. A proper figurehead. Den thinks a quality CEO would be enough, I think it's simpler. Leave Shaw plodding about losing money with the owners. An Allardyce figure would get at least another 10 point's a year out of these gelled up wannabees and you know it. We need an urgent return back to the PL. You talk about business. How does 100 million turnover sound? Why you ponce about on the fence over Bowyer irritates. Many of our immediate worries are solved with promotion. Especially if we managed to stay up by some miracle.

As long as the fools keep paying the bills we live to fight another day. The trick offield is how to unite everyone else irrespective of them. I'd rally everyone internally and go back to the fans begging forgiveness and ask for help. It's still Rovers. It's a big name. Decent marketers would have a field day building that back up. It's sat there waiting. Some attacking play at home would help. The fans still have half an eye on things even if it's only scousers that get them to the ground. And our away support is very good. I'd go to them as well.

I don't think a quality CEO would be enough on its own, nor would it make a huge difference if it was the wrong appointment. It is something vitally necessary though. Venkys need to appoint a CEO and make him responsible for putting the club into a position whereby the sole aim is improved results and thereby increased chances of getting out of this league. He has to have the authority to put the right people in the right positions, including the football manager. The situation we've been in since Venkys arrived, when Kean was able to go directly to the footballing naive owners, is not in the best interests of the club. It's open to the manager using the owners for their own benefit, rather than for the benefit of the club. That really has to change.

[thenodrog]

dont bring me into your know-feck-all club. I'd have had Mick anytime, proper manager....just like I'd have had Maclaren from holland and everyone jeered at that.....

You must have been a Big Sam fan too? He was those two rolled into one.

[tomphil]

A roller coaster career though hasn't he? Mick's a pragmatic, solid, no nonsense football manager. He doesn't have an ounce of flair or charisma on his cv but he understands football and footballers. BUT remember our crew behind the goals don't like that sort do they? Wouldn't be 5 mins before they'd be after his head if he came here and be booing for all they were worth should we ever get 3-0 up with 5 mins to play against a close rival!

However it should be noted that the further a club falls down the league the lower it's expectations become.

Me neither. I'd describe our season as slightly above average and slightly below expectations, given the way we finished last season and the way we started this with Gestede playing out of his skin . His form slumped (distraction of another club / his agent filling his head with crap imo) mid season and so did our hopes.

A section of Ipswich fans have been at loggerheads with Big Mick since day one, some still are. You've just got to accept these type of managers don't sit well with some fans but as long as they get the job done and as long as said fans keep turning up it doesn't matter a jot. A little pressure to do well and stick 2 fingers up at the boo boys can't do any harm can it. Unless you have gaffers who run squealing to the press or start blaming the fans and real off every excuse their P R man gives them, ring any bells ?

It's a mans game after all.

[thenodrog]

As were talking levels of failure of remits McClaren can't see Bowyer he's that far in the back distance

Shows how our levels of expectation have fallen..... Lest we forget it's Wally with the brolly you are eulogising over.

[thenodrog]

I thinks it's disappointing that he will remain as manager but now accepting of the fact.

The cup run was a brilliant diversion but the season is ultimately ending in failure, more would be accepting of that if we had gone about it with some purpose but the home performances this season have been shocking on the whole. We never ever set out to control a game and are more often that not on the back foot, the manager still seems unable to make a sub to change the game in our favour and when an opposition manager changes it up we are too slow to adapt.

Shades of last season and our fruitless unbeaten run with out unbeaten away run but there are no real signs that will lead to anything positive.

At least the hardcore fans that travel away have had some good showings this season but most season ticket holders will be left feeling cold. Even chaddy turned at one point before changing his mind and Gav who has been as patient as anyone is now of the thinking his time should be at an end.

If we can get rid of Rhodes, Gestede and King and replace with better then we should. If we replace with worse it's bad. We'd not know for sure until it's happened which would be too late in the one instance. Exactly the same with a manager. If there are better out there then we should ruthlessly pursue them BUT it must also be recognised that there is always an element of risk.

[Athlete]

we're only 2 points worse off than this time last year and we were restricted to freebies last summer whilst other teams have spent quite big money or got expensive loans in. If the squad wasn't good enough last season then it certainly isn't this year in a much stronger league. It all depends on whether you think the squad was good enough last year. The tactical ineptitude claim is wide of the mark imo, the team is inconsistent and too negative at times but we no longer get rolled over like we did at the beginning of Bowyers tenure. We've also just gone 8 games away unbeaten, that doesn't normally happen if the manager doesn't know what he's doing, especially a manager that is so new.

We'd all love a Mick McCarthy who has done an amazing job with Ipswich, or a Warburton at Brentford who plays great football (but who spent £5m more money than Bowyer last summer) but until the Venky's start taking advice from proper football people then it isn't going to happen. Bowyer has done a good job since he took over and continues to imo. Things could be a lot, lot worse, and are at many clubs who haven't gone through the amount of upheavel and destruction our club has in the last 5 years.

Garbage? have we been relegated? did we have a great and exciting cup run? or did we just go through a season with highs and lows whilst under a transfer embargo and remain competetive? It's been dull at times, and frustrating, but not garbage.

It has been garbage anyone saying different hasn't been an Ewood regular this season

Chalk and cheese. Two posts close together and illustrating the range of quality of this mb.

The only quality you have is your golf handicap

[onlyonejackwalker]

Answer me this. How does 100 million sound when the cheque is made out to Venkys? You know those 'fools' who keep paying the bills. There'll be so much siphoned off (and it would definitely be their preogative) it would make make Karl Oyston appear like a registered charity.

Maybe so. It is their money so they can do what they want with it. Your point is that we may soon cease to be due to increasing debt levels and that local football is simply not sutainable. Hence thinking that the romantic Lancashire Hotpotch is a viable alternative.

My point is that with promotion most of our immediate financial problems are addressed, safeguarding the club and giving us some breathing space to develope a coherent plan going forward. As we should have done lkast time from a position of strength. Therefore fannying about over the merits of Bowyer whilst he learns slowly on the job benefits no-one but him.

One thing is for sure. Plod along with Bowyer losing an absolute fortune year in, year out and you may well be right about the club ceasing to exist. Unfortunately not everyone can see these events unfolding, including you with your contradictory views.

Sadly, many still cannot see the wood for the trees and whilst confusion and divides abound, we just go round and round in circles. As DE said somewhere earlier, avoiding the spin about Bowyer, the only thing stable about the Rovers is our increasing levels of debt and growing concerns for the future.

I don't think a quality CEO would be enough on its own, nor would it make a huge difference if it was the wrong appointment. It is something vitally necessary though. Venkys need to appoint a CEO and make him responsible for putting the club into a position whereby the sole aim is improved results and thereby increased chances of getting out of this league. He has to have the authority to put the right people in the right positions, including the football manager. The situation we've been in since Venkys arrived, when Kean was able to go directly to the footballing naive owners, is not in the best interests of the club. It's open to the manager using the owners for their own benefit, rather than for the benefit of the club. That really has to change.

I'm not disagreeing with the need for a quality CEO. We have all worked places were people sit up and pay attention when the main man comes in. It would certainly be beneficial.

Does not look like this will happen however and feel if pushed we could circumnavigate the benefits of any CEO appointment in the short term, by recruiting well in the managerial position.