[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[broadsword]

Can a club under a transfer embargo really be a paragon of stability?

I'd say that the future is uncertain. We may well be in for more mid-table turgidity, but i wouldn't bet the mortgage on it.

[Mattyblue]

Progress in any club can be measured by things other than points Abbey. There have been many seasons when we finished in a lower position than the one before without fans becoming hysterical about it. These days it seems that over reaction is the norm. If we were in the bottom three or been fighting relegation all season I might understand it better but we haven't. We've been comfortable in mid-table whilst trying to address the issue of the wage bill. We have made improvements, a number of them, at the Academy, the Under-21's are producing a number of promising players - although only time will tell if they are good enough to come through. Clearly, we have to cope with FFP and the impact the embargo will have on summer signings but, personally, I can see progress from the position we were in a couple of years ago.

You often will cite 'the past' when describing how you are happy with the present.

I'm sure you see parallels with the 86-90 era, we'd have a middling season, and go on again the year after, a slow build under Don MacKay.

Fine sentiment, as is are the improvements to the Academy, however the Rovers of 2015 has a milestone of debt around its neck that is threatening to drag us into the abyss. Out great chance of recovery was promotion in our first years post relegation, when we could still field strikers with 40+ between them and pay a good wage.

This has been wasted, and now when those players depart, Bowyer has a ready made, and in reality, a correct excuse that FFP makes our decline unavoidable, however it WAS avoidable in 2013-2015 and Bowyer was not up to it.

Nothing tells me that without our best players next season we will progress any more than we have this season.

When discussing how Bowyer is improving things, you mention the Academy, the wage bill and so on, however what you rarely mention is how you feel the performances and results of the first team have improved and in our current situation that's all that should matter.

[chris_h]

JUST YOU !

TELL YA WHAT IGNORE ME AND I WILL IGNORE YOU?

ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH?

.

It's a strange bloke who judges manliness by posts on an Internet message board but yes I'm up for that.

Stay the @#/? away from my posts.

[Andyblue2]

a strange bloke yes I'm up for that.

Stay

you at it again chris? I've told you before, there are sites for this type of thing....I've heard.

[chris_h]

you at it again chris? I've told you before, there are sites for this type of thing....I've heard.

God loves a tryer.

[Amo]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/12901652._/?ref=mac

more venkygraph brainwashing clap trap. Bowyer will continue to be bold!

I would hate to see his negative boring tactics then.

Makes it sound like we play gung-ho, Keegan-esque football.

I'll say it again, conceding goals hasn't been our main problem, it's scoring them across the team.

e.g. Watford have only conceded six less goals than us but scored 29 more.

Bournemouth have only conceded ten less goals than us but scored 33 more.

[Andyblue2]

e.g. Watford have only conceded six less goals than us but scored 29 more.

Bournemouth have only conceded ten less goals than us but scored 33 more.

wow, these figures really put into context how poor we have been this season.

is that really how stability works Parson?

[Blue blood]

Wigan and Brighton finished in the play-offs last season. Wigan are virtually down and Brighton are hanging on by the skin of their teeth. We've not done too badly all things considered. But have we done well? Given the talent we have, especially the front 2, even you would be hard pressed to say we've done well?

We've maintained a position in the top half of the table and not slipped like others beg to differ - we'll end up with less points than last season and finish further away from promotion.

We've addressed some of the big money players and the summer will see the likes of Robinson and one or two more depart. That's stability Rev, might not be the promotion we all want but it is putting things on a better footing. Of course there is a long way to go but, personally, I'm happy with the progress that is being made.Again, what progress. We're further away from promotion, the debt is mounting, we're likely to lose our best players in the summer - again, I ask how is that progress?

It's called having a different view to all the Bowyer Out propaganda being peddled by some. Propaganda? Which of the facts I've stated is propaganda. Possibly losing players isn't a certainty but it's a likelihood. I'd like to know what of the inconsistent line ups, the press releases full of excuses and the league statistics are propaganda?

Couldn't agree more Chris. Three 'keepers all good enough to be first choice although from what I have seen I feel sure Raya will become the number one long term choice. Sadly, as always on here these days everything is turned into a negative.Perhaps if the rest of the team was settled or he didn't spout so much bull fans would give him an easier ride.

[den]

That LT article just confirms that far from being bold, he's playing 4-4-2 because he believes we don't have anyone who can play the lone striker. As the LT says, playing 4-4-2 gives us a soft underbelly - meaning we get overrun in midfield. Nothing to do with being bold, more to do with the manager not being able to gel us into a winning team with the current playing staff.

It's his squad.

[K-Hod]

If we had the midfield to support it (i.e. mobile attacking and defensive players), 4-4-2 would be fine.

As I alluded to in another thread, (and others also have to be fair), we are slow, one-paced crabs in the centre of the park.

[tomphil]

Why's he going to start messing with the keepers now ? He made the bold choice of bringing in Steele on the recommendation of the keeper coach to clearly be his no 1. He's done ok but to me there isn't a fag paper between him and Eastwood. We know what they both can do so the logical thing is either keep it as it was or loan one out and let Raya be the competition for the number 1 spot and maybe save a few quid off the wage bill. Ok we've nowt to play for but imo it's more needless messing about for other reasons.

Why does it come as no surprise that this guy still isn't sure who his number 1 keeper should be ?

cringing reading the steeley easty nicknames

That is painful reading. Mind you he's probably doing it on purpose if he's read the board

[blueboy3333]

ITS LIKE HAVING PILES ..EVERY TIME I POST (SIT DOWN) IT ITCHES (YOU).

PUT ME ON IGNORE

maybe a little insight into how Chaddy may feel when you and your little crew jump on his every post?

Would you not have called Wigan pretty stable under Rosler? If they can plunge into the relegation places after nearly getting promoted the season before, you had better believe the same can happen to Rovers. Complacency like your "safe as houses" post is exactly the type of attitude the club needs to avoid if we want to stay up next season.

Not really. Wigan were 14th when Rosler was appointed in December 2013. After a good run to the play-offs that season Wigan were 22nd 11 months later when they sacked him in November 2014. Thats the opposite of stable and he left them lower in the league than were he found them. We've been nowhere near the relegation places in Bowyer's two full seasons in charge. Rosler didn't even manage a full season.

[ABBEY]

Me n chaddy are cool .. Ask him degsy .

Stop @#/? stirring your actually pathetic .. Try ignoring me instead of getting the Kleenex out every time I post .

[chris_h]

maybe a little insight into how Chaddy may feel when you and your little crew jump on his every post?

.

He won't understand irony. The poor bugger.

[den]

If we had the midfield to support it (i.e. mobile attacking and defensive players), 4-4-2 would be fine..

Four in midfield would always struggle against five disciplined midfielders, that's obvious to most. Bowyers telling us why he has to play 4-4-2 and it's nothing to do with him being bold.

[blueboy3333]

If we had the midfield to support it (i.e. mobile attacking and defensive players), 4-4-2 would be fine.

As I alluded to in another thread, (and others also have to be fair), we are slow, one-paced crabs in the centre of the park.

very true, the centre of our midfield is a major problem. In fairness Bowyer did try to rectify it when he brought Tunny in who did get forward a lot more than Evans and Williamson, but i don't think Bowyer played Tunny as much as he should have. We desperately need a dynamic presence in the middle of the park. Bowyer's preference for 2 sitting midfielders and 2 up top leaves the strikers isolated, especially when Rhodes and Gestede are pretty static and both rely on crosses from our inconsistent wingers.

[K-Hod]

Four in midfield would always struggle against five disciplined midfielders, that's obvious to most. Bowyers telling us why he has to play 4-4-2 and it's nothing to do with him being bold.

Well yeah, I figured that was a given Den.....

Bowyer's bold comment was a bizarre one, with absolutely no basis to it whatsoever.

Me n chaddy are cool .. Ask him degsy .

Stop @#/? stirring your actually pathetic .. Try ignoring me instead of getting the Kleenex out every time I post .

Any danger of you all ignoring each other so the rest of us don't have to read it?

[blueboy3333]

Me n chaddy are cool .. Ask him degsy .

Stop @#/? stirring your actually pathetic .. Try ignoring me instead of getting the Kleenex out every time I post .

you are now after a years of chasing him round the board asking him to justify his every post, but that's just a reflection on what a decent poster Chaddy is. Chris h responds to a few of your posts and you're having a hissy fit at him. See the difference? Probably not, you seem to lack any kind of self-awareness.

keep the 'degsy' and 'Mrs D' nicknames coming though, they're hilarious. I'm the pathetic one though

[DE.]

Not really. Wigan were 14th when Rosler was appointed in December 2013. After a good run to the play-offs that season Wigan were 22nd 11 months later when they sacked him in November 2014. Thats the opposite of stable and he left them lower in the league than were he found them. We've been nowhere near the relegation places in Bowyer's two full seasons in charge. Rosler didn't even manage a full season.

As a club they were stable, though, weren't they? More so than us, you'd have to argue.

We've been hovering between 8th - 13th for a while now. With the prospect of losing our best players in the summer looming, I see no reason to assume we'll be 'safe as houses' under Bowyer next season. If he can't get anywhere with the squad he's had over the past two seasons, there's only one thing to logically expect next season with a weaker squad - regression.

Without our star players there to pull us out of the holes we dig for ourselves, the only question is how far we're going to fall IMO.

[Amo]

So many pissy arguments going on between the usual suspects.

What happened to the moderation on here?

[A cup of beans]

So many pissy arguments going on between the usual suspects.

What happened to the moderation on here?

F you, Topman!

I'm kidding

[blueboy3333]

As a club they were stable, though, weren't they? More so than us, you'd have to argue.

We've been hovering between 8th - 13th for a while now. With the prospect of losing our best players in the summer looming, I see no reason to assume we'll be 'safe as houses' under Bowyer next season. If he can't get anywhere with the squad he's had over the past two seasons, there's only one thing to logically expect next season with a weaker squad - regression.

Without our star players there to pull us out of the holes we dig for ourselves, the only question is how far we're going to fall IMO.

i think maybe we differ as to what we mean by 'stable'. I mean 'stability' on the pitch which has definitely been achieved under Bowyer. Off the pitch it's still a nightmare obviously.

What we do next season is anyone's guess. if we weren't under an embargo i'd be confident we'd maintain a similair position because Bowyer has an eye for a player, but losing Rhodes and/or Gestede and replacing them with freebies means we'll just end up with cheapies like Brown/Varney. That doesn't mean we'll be in a relegation fight though. Hopefully Bowyer can identify players at the end of their contracts who can bring some quality to the team.

[A cup of beans]

On GB and the 442, it was obvious on Saturday that GB was hoping the forwards would save the day.

Even if GB believes the midfield is too weak/ lacking creativity, then surely it would be better to stiffen it up, with a 5.

I agree with KHod, we cant compete, when we are out numbered in the midfield.

Add 2 strong/ quick wingers to the mix and you can see how we struggle.

442 against 451 is desperately demanding, and only works if:

the DM is strong/ athletic enough to impose,

the more creative DM defends and creates,

the wide men help defensively.

Those burdens are too much for our collective.

[Parsonblue]

Progress from a few years ago? a few years ago we were sitting 8th in top flight football.

Thing is everyone knows we can finish worse and could accept it if we had not been ruined by Pune. Its not over reaction because if you closely without blue blinkers you can see its getting worse. Its awful and fans will vote with their feet next season. Coping with the embargo has been brought on by the lunatics in Pune . If you cant see the warning signs then I feel you are in for a rude awakening next season.

As they say on thrones WINTER IS COMING.

I said progress from a couple of years ago when we were down under Kean and had Berg and Appleton not to mention Shebby and the manager's door seemed to be revolving.

[DE.]

i think maybe we differ as to what we mean by 'stable'. I mean 'stability' on the pitch which has definitely been achieved under Bowyer. Off the pitch it's still a nightmare obviously.

What we do next season is anyone's guess. if we weren't under an embargo i'd be confident we'd maintain a similair position because Bowyer has an eye for a player, but losing Rhodes and/or Gestede and replacing them with freebies means we'll just end up with cheapies like Brown/Varney. That doesn't mean we'll be in a relegation fight though. Hopefully Bowyer can identify players at the end of their contracts who can bring some quality to the team.

I'm not sure we are especially stable on the pitch, though. Defensively we're atrocious, and too often we rely on our big players to do something by themselves to save us. At the very least we're looking at Rhodes and Gestede likely leaving in the summer, which is a ton of goals to replace.

Have to admit my confidence in Bowyer bringing in good players has worsened this season. The players he brought in last season have mostly regressed in terms of performance (Cairney and Evans especially) whilst the ones brought in this season have by and large been unimpressive or downright useless. The only exception imo is Baptiste, who I think has had a solid season.

The squad is very likely to have a lot less natural talent next season, so we're going to need a manager who can get an extra 10% out of average or poor players, whilst being able to work out suitable formations to get the best out of the limited skill sets available. Unless Gary improves A LOT as a manager over the course of the summer, I don't believe he is up to that task.