[Archived] Transfer Talk

[JBiz]

The leeds one was sublime. A few of those replays also highlight what Spurr offers over Marcus. That big chuck!

As we're currently subject to an embargo, until the rules are relaxed and that is lifted we need a manager who can firstly bring through the youngsters and secondly get the best out of the players already on the books. GB proved himself woefully lacking in both respects last season imo.

Whilst many had inconsistent seasons, in reply to your summary, it's fair to mention that Olsson and Henley are two youngsters/players on books who improved last season. Eastwood, and possibly a few more.

[scotty_beam_me_up]

Michael Laudrup available on a free.

I think he would still get a game in midfield

[neophox]

Sam Ricketts available on a free.

[blueboy3333]

FFP is getting a bad name as time progresses and is unlikely to help any club with limited income, but is it only me that can see the actual intentions of FFP being good? Forest, BRFC, Bolton etc etc submerged in impossible debt right up to the gills for goodness only knows how many years to come providing all our sugar daddies don't just get fed up and ride off into the sunset. No matter how rich the owners are in football money will be spewed willy nilly and mostly at @#/? players and their greedy grabbing opportunist entourage of managers, agents, accountants and lawyers. Something had to be done and it isn't good for us but the madness has to stop somewhere before the game goes becomes totally unsustainable.

The intentions of FFP may well have been good, and i agree that something has to be done about the rampant debt, but it has a massive flaw...If you've been in the Prem a long time and suddenly get relegated, like us, then you are royally screwed. We had a wage bill of £60m when we came down, a not unreasonable amount considering we'd been in the Prem for nigh on 20 years, and considering the TV money we received of close to £50m. Suddenly we're living off parachute payments of £16m but we've still got a huge wage bill made up by players on 2/3/4 year contracts. Unless you have players other people want to buy off you, and we hadn't thanks to the scumbags Kean and Anderson, then it's curtains unless you go straight back up.

Obviously our situation was made worse by gross-mismanagement and the fact we carried on spending big money on over-the-hill mercenaries. Burnley (spit) have it right, go up for one season, spend little, come back down with a relatively small wage bill and £40m profit in their sky-rocket...and parachute payments.

[JHRover]

Whether we deserve an embargo or not is really irrelevant at this stage. The QPR fiasco alone has shown that even in its infancy the FFP system is not fit for purpose, and should be fought, challenged & scrapped.

It is nothing short of a disgrace that Rovers are in their second transfer window of being heavily restricted as to signing players whilst QPR, who have spent far more than us and lost more than us in recent years, are able to go about rebuilding their squad ahead of the new season spending considerable sums of money on decent players. For this reason alone we should be ensuring that we keep our best players at the club. Its one thing being prevented from bringing new players in, but being forced to sell those good ones we do have whilst QPR continue to strengthen really is taking the mick.

As usual the Football League are trying to absolve themselves of any blame by saying that it was the clubs who voted the rules in. They seem very happy to dish punishments out but when challenged or questioned it is never their fault, always somebody elses.

I'm not really interested any more in whether we deserve to be punished, whether FFP as a concept is right or wrong, its all irrelevant. What is relevant is that the rules are not even 12 months into existence and have failed. They are not worth the paper they are written on.

Rovers need to stay strong and endure it. Weakening ourselves is exactly what the League and their friends want us to do. Once we have lost Rhodes/Gestede they will probably let us off the embargo knowing that by that stage we will be sufficiently weakened and their goal will have been achieved.

Somebody, whether it is the Lancashire Telegraph or the Fans Forum, need to put the question directly to Derek Shaw as to why the club has decided to not challenge the embargo and earn a reprieve as QPR have managed to do, and demand a proper answer instead of the usual confused rubbish.

[thenodrog]

Somebody, whether it is the Lancashire Telegraph or the Fans Forum, need to put the question directly to Derek Shaw as to why the club has decided to not challenge the embargo and earn a reprieve as QPR have managed to do, and demand a proper answer instead of the usual confused rubbish.

I'll give my opinion. Cost of challenging FFP v chances of winning.

btw What would you say if QPR lose their case and have to stump up 70m or whatever it is they owe? Would you still want us to go down the same route?

[thenodrog]

The intentions of FFP may well have been good, and i agree that something has to be done about the rampant debt, but it has a massive flaw...If you've been in the Prem a long time and suddenly get relegated, like us, then you are royally screwed. We had a wage bill of £60m when we came down, a not unreasonable amount considering we'd been in the Prem for nigh on 20 years, and considering the TV money we received of close to £50m. Suddenly we're living off parachute payments of £16m but we've still got a huge wage bill made up by players on 2/3/4 year contracts. Unless you have players other people want to buy off you, and we hadn't thanks to the scumbags Kean and Anderson, then it's curtains unless you go straight back up.

Kean and Anderson screwed us over from the info made available since. The players were aghast at Allardyce's sacking and when the senior players and their agents railed against the summary dismissal disposal of Allardyce who they obviously respected and the club replacing him with that little fat tawt Kean (who they obviously had only contempt for) Anderson sat them down and took the relegation clauses out of their contracts. In his own words he was 'sleeping at Brockhall through January remember. Thats imo what financially nailed us. Without that action the players would have taken a financial hit when we were relegated instead of swallowing up all the parachute payments and more.

[JHRover]

I'll give my opinion. Cost of challenging FFP v chances of winning.

btw What would you say if QPR lose their case and have to stump up 70m or whatever it is they owe? Would you still want us to go down the same route?

QPR won't have to pay £70 million. The most they could be fined is £50 odd million, and there is absolutely no way on earth that amount will have to be paid in one installment. The worst QPR will get is a fine spread over several years to make it more affordable. My guess is £5 million a year for 10 years or something similar.

That's why the rules fail. Because if they are enforced as written they should be either fined £50 odd million or refused entry into the League. The League have already said they won't take the second route and you can bet they will be willing to negotiate on the fine as well.

My prediction is QPR and the League will agree on a heavily reduced and spread out fine over several years well below the £50 million. Suits all parties. Then the League can continue to restrict our business and QPR can continue heavy spending ahead of the new season.

As I've said previously, it won't make any financial difference to us whether QPR have to pay their fine or not. We can't be fined unless we get promoted, and even then it won't be enforced until we are relegated back. All we have to lose are possible costs of instructing lawyers.

[TBTF]

Whether we deserve an embargo or not is really irrelevant at this stage. The QPR fiasco alone has shown that even in its infancy the FFP system is not fit for purpose, and should be fought, challenged & scrapped.

It is nothing short of a disgrace that Rovers are in their second transfer window of being heavily restricted as to signing players whilst QPR, who have spent far more than us and lost more than us in recent years, are able to go about rebuilding their squad ahead of the new season spending considerable sums of money on decent players. For this reason alone we should be ensuring that we keep our best players at the club. Its one thing being prevented from bringing new players in, but being forced to sell those good ones we do have whilst QPR continue to strengthen really is taking the mick.

As usual the Football League are trying to absolve themselves of any blame by saying that it was the clubs who voted the rules in. They seem very happy to dish punishments out but when challenged or questioned it is never their fault, always somebody elses.

I'm not really interested any more in whether we deserve to be punished, whether FFP as a concept is right or wrong, its all irrelevant. What is relevant is that the rules are not even 12 months into existence and have failed. They are not worth the paper they are written on.

Rovers need to stay strong and endure it. Weakening ourselves is exactly what the League and their friends want us to do. Once we have lost Rhodes/Gestede they will probably let us off the embargo knowing that by that stage we will be sufficiently weakened and their goal will have been achieved.

Somebody, whether it is the Lancashire Telegraph or the Fans Forum, need to put the question directly to Derek Shaw as to why the club has decided to not challenge the embargo and earn a reprieve as QPR have managed to do, and demand a proper answer instead of the usual confused rubbish.

Do we actually want a reprieve as a club?

Seriously , do Venkys still have the appetite to just keep throwing cash in willy billy and building up debt levels that can never be repaid? As things stand even now we rely on them to keep shoving £20 million a year into the club to balance the books because our income is so low .i am sure that p1sses them off at least to a minor extent.

Ok so we get the embargo lifted. What seriously do we expect Venkys to do? It seems generally accepted that their baby has cost them £100 million so far in purchase price and losses so is it realistic to think with the embargo lifted they are just going to pump tens more millions in to see if we can get promoted??

As Mercer keeps saying, the club is between a rock and a hard place and quite how it all plays out from here is very difficult to imagine.

Our income is about £6 million plus TV/ parachute money which is barely enough to pay Rhodes and Best for a year.we are starting from such a low income base that we are little different to a Millwall, Bolton, Barnsley, Rotherham yet people on here seem to think without the embargo we would have a top drawer squad out on the park. Sadly guys those days are long gone and it won't be long before we are comparing ourselves with Oldham, and if Venkys get tired of covering the losses it might actually get worse than that.

The phrase dumbed down has been used often on here recently but sadly that's what we will have to get used to with our income levels. Turning up to watch Josh Morris , John Osulivan , Chris brown and players earning 4 grand a week is the reality .The FFP limit might be 10 grand a week maximum but we can't afford that .10 players earning that plus national insurance etc will absorb all the income we generate and I suspect that needing a squad of 22 or whatever means that 5 grand a week will have to become our norm.

Scary scary stuff and most definitely dumbing down.

[JHRover]

Do we actually want a reprieve as a club?

Seriously , do Venkys still have the appetite to just keep throwing cash in willy billy and building up debt levels that can never be repaid? As things stand even now we rely on them to keep shoving £20 million a year into the club to balance the books because our income is so low .i am sure that p1sses them off at least to a minor extent.

Ok so we get the embargo lifted. What seriously do we expect Venkys to do? It seems generally accepted that their baby has cost them £100 million so far in purchase price and losses so is it realistic to think with the embargo lifted they are just going to pump tens more millions in to see if we can get promoted??

As Mercer keeps saying, the club is between a rock and a hard place and quite how it all plays out from here is very difficult to imagine.

Our income is about £6 million plus TV/ parachute money which is barely enough to pay Rhodes and Best for a year.we are starting from such a low income base that we are little different to a Millwall, Bolton, Barnsley, Rotherham yet people on here seem to think without the embargo we would have a top drawer squad out on the park. Sadly guys those days are long gone and it won't be long before we are comparing ourselves with Oldham, and if Venkys get tired of covering the losses it might actually get worse than that.

The phrase dumbed down has been used often on here recently but sadly that's what we will have to get used to with our income levels. Turning up to watch Josh Morris , John Osulivan , Chris brown and players earning 4 grand a week is the reality .The FFP limit might be 10 grand a week maximum but we can't afford that .10 players earning that plus national insurance etc will absorb all the income we generate and I suspect that needing a squad of 22 or whatever means that 5 grand a week will have to become our norm.

Scary scary stuff and most definitely dumbing down.

But what about QPR? Smaller club than us, losing more money than us, in more debt than us. Doesn't seem to bother them or their fans. Its spend spend spend to try and get back up.

What are their income levels without Fernandes pumping the cash in? Gates of about 13,000 a week though admittedly paying higher prices for tickets.

The above points you make are one of the reasons we need Venkys or another rich benefactor (probably foreign) to own the club and back it with money. Its quite clear this club cannot rely on the unwavering loyalty of its supporters, hence the drastic reduction in numbers of people paying low prices to go to Ewood, so we need to make up the difference in other areas e.g. sponsorship and investment. Its all well and good having romantic ideas of some bloke from Darwen or Mill Hill taking over the club, but in todays world we need someone with cold hard cash.

Thats why I hope Venkys continue to provide the money or pass the club on to someone else who will.

[Roberto Policano]

If your scouts are still looking on here.Dani Abalo has left Ludogorets on a free transfer,Low wages and very handy player.

[Stuart]

Another winger. Bowyer has probably made enquiries already.

[TBTF]

But what about QPR? Smaller club than us, losing more money than us, in more debt than us. Doesn't seem to bother them or their fans. Its spend spend spend to try and get back up.

What are their income levels without Fernandes pumping the cash in? Gates of about 13,000 a week though admittedly paying higher prices for tickets.

The above points you make are one of the reasons we need Venkys or another rich benefactor (probably foreign) to own the club and back it with money. Its quite clear this club cannot rely on the unwavering loyalty of its supporters, hence the drastic reduction in numbers of people paying low prices to go to Ewood, so we need to make up the difference in other areas e.g. sponsorship and investment. Its all well and good having romantic ideas of some bloke from Darwen or Mill Hill taking over the club, but in todays world we need someone with cold hard cash.

Thats why I hope Venkys continue to provide the money or pass the club on to someone else who will.

The QPR thing is outrageous in terms of the rule abuse but it's up to their owners what they feel they want to do and at least they have a @#/? load of parachute money coming again and probably some Charlie Austin money too.but the key thing is their owners turn up and are clearly emotionally attached to the club even if they are bonkers,But ours never comment , never engage and barely attend so you would have to think they have lost interest . Venkys probably wish there was an alternative to putting big money in so whilst you are right that we are screwed without them propping us up I still think that's a long way short of them spending lumps of their "cold hard cash" on a promotion charge and in my opinion it doesn't appear to me like they are inclined to do any more than they are currently doing. The QPR guy obviously sees it differently for his club but even there they will be emptying most of their big earners.

[gumboots]

The problem with the embargo though is that we can't pay fees for players so if we found a gem who only cost 500000 and would take low wages even if we'd sold Rhodes and gestede we couldn't buy them. Or have I misunderstood?

[davulsukur]

The problem with the embargo though is that we can't pay fees for players so if we found a gem who only cost 500000 and would take low wages even if we'd sold Rhodes and gestede we couldn't buy them. Or have I misunderstood?

No that's correct. We cannot pay a fee for any player.

There may be different rules regarding Youth players, and you would have to hope that there are, otherwise clubs really have no chance in building anything for the future.

[Al]

Whilst many knock Brown and Varney- they cost sod all and filled in when needed. Brown was nowhere near as bad as many are making out- it's just easy to knock him due to no goals. His assist rate per 90minutes will show a different side to his impact. He's also completely different to the other strikers - an old school style target man. I still think he is better foil for Rhodes. The Brighton home game was easily Browns worst performance, but against Wednesday away- he was effective.

Sorry not having that. They do not cost sod all they cost their wages, which we cannot afford for stiffs. They have not scored a goal between them and apart from falling over for a penalty neither of them have provided an assist. They are both a waste of a place on the pitch and a waste of a wage on the finances. Atrocious signings that we would be better off without.

[davulsukur]

Sorry not having that. They do not cost sod all they cost their wages, which we cannot afford for stiffs. They have not scored a goal between them and apart from falling over for a penalty neither of them have provided an assist. They are both a waste of a place on the pitch and a waste of a wage on the finances. Atrocious signings that we would be better off without.

Apart from the 3 Brown has provided

[1arC]

Kean and Anderson screwed us over from the info made available since. The players were aghast at Allardyce's sacking and when the senior players and their agents railed against the summary dismissal disposal of Allardyce who they obviously respected and the club replacing him with that little fat tawt Kean (who they obviously had only contempt for) Anderson sat them down and took the relegation clauses out of their contracts. In his own words he was 'sleeping at Brockhall through January remember. Thats imo what financially nailed us. Without that action the players would have taken a financial hit when we were relegated instead of swallowing up all the parachute payments and more.

I am not doubting you by asking this, but how do you know that Anderson took the relegation clauses out of the players contracts? When you think about the impact FFP has, it should be a given, for every single club to have a reduction on wages, consistent with the drop in income occurs immediately on relegation. Without that, every relegated club, will be hit with an embargo.

[tomphil]

I seem to remember the tantric one offering automatic contract extensions to senior players to quell the uprising against Sams removal. That followed by freezing them all out midway the following season before those clauses kicked in, that was the word doing the rounds anyway. Scott Dann had a relegation reduction clause in his 30k+ pwk wages only for the conman Kean to make him captain and restore them again to Prem level. God knows how many times he performed similar, that was him by the way not Singh but probably signed off by Shelf.

[chaddyrovers]

Appleton made Scott Dann as captain Tophill.

[JAL]

When or if you've no money then it becomes absolutely critical that the players you sign can at least do their jobs unlike the non scoring duo of Varney and Brown.

Anyone supporting these two really shouldn't be anywhere near Blackburn Rovers football club.

[mustard]

I honestly can't get my head round the discussions in this thread. It's seems that;

A) we are a joke because we aren't finding ways round FFP, using is at an excuse or the owners should get their chequebooks out.

And

we are millions in debt, we need to trim the wage bill and still add quality within the rules.

We can't have both. Mercer will remind us of the precipice that our finances are hanging onto. It's one of the only things we agree on, we have to get rid of that debt.

It could also be said that we need to get the prem money, but that is more difficult without legroom AKA - QPR and West ham who recently got promoted by buying players. Then there is Burnley and others who did it on the cheap. When we had the chance to do that, we blew 20+ million on Etuhu, Murphy, Rhodes, Best, Portugeezers and the rest.

Rhodes the only decent one of that spend and still cost far too much. The answer is surely something similar to what we have - small investments in younger players where we can (Steele, Gestede, Cairney, Duffy, Evans etc) and risk free others- like the Paul Taylor deal which could have been shrewd if he looked up to it in training and signed after his release on July 1st.

Whilst many knock Brown and Varney- they cost sod all and filled in when needed. Brown was nowhere near as bad as many are making out- it's just easy to knock him due to no goals. His assist rate per 90minutes will show a different side to his impact. He's also completely different to the other strikers - an old school style target man. I still think he is better foil for Rhodes. The Brighton home game was easily Browns worst performance, but against Wednesday away- he was effective.

Before posting, people should ask themselves these questions;

Should we spend more money? If you answered yes; What about the debt levels? What about future sanctions with FFP? What if the Raos call in debt?

If you answered no; If we look at GBs business as a whole, doesn't that fit what we need? Isn't replacing the whole staff again spending money? Is it guaranteed that we will get more out of the current crop?

I'd disagree that the likes of Evans, Duffy and Marshall are small investments. Each cost quite a lot of money for a Championship club, especially for one in a lot of debt. Bowyer has spent his share (£3-4million) on players and the sooner people realise this, the better. Evans was £850k, remember.

It's all rather contradictory as Gordon and Parson state how we'll be lucky to avoid relegation this season, particularly if Rhodes and Rudy leave. Doesn't that then imply that Bowyer has spent poorly when it comes to assembling a capable squad?

Either he spent well and can't bring out the best in them or he spent poorly and is doing a good job with a set of poor players. Can't have it both ways. Perhaps you can fall in the middle, but you can't deny he's had a fair amount to spend and plenty of manoeuvrability on who he brings in, particularly pre-embargo.

[BlooBoy]

I'd disagree that the likes of Evans, Duffy and Marshall are small investments. Each cost quite a lot of money for a Championship club, especially for one in a lot of debt. Bowyer has spent his share (£3-4million) on players and the sooner people realise this, the better. Evans was £850k, remember.

It's all rather contradictory as Gordon and Parson state how we'll be lucky to avoid relegation this season, particularly if Rhodes and Rudy leave. Doesn't that then imply that Bowyer has spent poorly when it comes to assembling a capable squad?

Either he spent well and can't bring out the best in them or he spent poorly and is doing a good job with a set of poor players. Can't have it both ways. Perhaps you can fall in the middle, but you can't deny he's had a fair amount to spend and plenty of manoeuvrability on who he brings in, particularly pre-embargo.

Well said Mustard.

Bowyer pre embargo has hardly had his hands tied with bringing in players. There may have been financial limits to what he could spend (we are a Championship club with embargo looming ) but any player he seems to have wanted hes got.

29 players has been brought into the club ? Out of all these incomings and the players already in the squad you would think we d have a very steady (not world beating) squad.

Question is ..do we ? If not ..why ?

And for a manager who doesnt know his best 11 why make his decisions even harder by have such numbers of players to pick from?

What we see then is Bowyer shoe horning players into the first 11 where ever he can.

Seaason number 3 for Bowyer does anyone really think he knows his starting eleven with the players we have right now ?

[tomphil]

Appleton made Scott Dann as captain Tophill.

You sure about that ? Anyway the story coco about putting Danns wages back up was in an article in the paper around the time Palace were after him, just before he went. It may have been your good pal who wrote it and he was usually on the money with his contract stories in that era. Even if it's the opposite with his transfer nonsense !

[Rover_Shaun]

Appleton made Dann permanent captain before the amazing Millwall home FA Cup replay