[Archived] Transfer Talk

[tomphil]

I think that's why Allardyce did his best to convince Williams to get Salgado as Sam saw him as the key to getting a few big names over here. Following a similar path to what he did at Bolton and we'd maybe have seen a bit more cultured football under his term. Such a pity that Jack never got to work with the likes of Souness or Allardyce.

[roverstdt]

By the look of Tony Fernandes is expecting a positive outcome of the challenge on the FFP and the fine, and after scouring the internet a bit it looks like they are expecting this to be solved by beginning to mid June.

With regards to our situation I think there is plenty to be positive about for the summer. I really wouldn't see it as a disaster should Rhodes, and Gestede go (Even though I see them incredibly talented players who I love to see in the blue and white halves), but Rovers have always been able to make shrewd signings especially when big names have gone. I think this season is quite interesting with Leicester staying up, and look at the players that are running out of contract in the summer they are some deals to be done. Whether it is signing Chris Wood on loan, with Dwight Gayle (As Kamy suggested) then that would be equally as strong attack in my eyes than any other.

My biggest concern would be midfield but even there we don't need to go all out and splash the cash to get what we need. I would like to see us cash in on a few of our players like Hanley, Rhodes, Gestede, and use some of that cash to make some clever signings like bringing in Baptiste again as a CB, hell we should still make a play for Jamie Ward, and Rodolph Austin if we can as well to add some bite to the midfield.

[DE.]

You're not worried about losing a 40 goal strikeforce whilst we're under an embargo? Have you seen the type of strikers GB has brought in without a fee attached?

[T J Hooker]

I think that's why Allardyce did his best to convince Williams to get Salgado as Sam saw him as the key to getting a few big names over here. Following a similar path to what he did at Bolton and we'd maybe have seen a bit more cultured football under his term. Such a pity that Jack never got to work with the likes of Souness or Allardyce.

Souness and allardyce are at there brst when they have to wheel and deal to find bargains and quality hi reputation freebies,give them a good sized transfet kitty though and they waste it on dross and things start to unravel at their clubs.

[JHRover]

As a Championship club we have to be realistic. No matter what the financial situation or the intentions of the owners or hopes for the new season, if a top division club wants one of your players badly enough then the likelihood is that it will happen eventually. We are no different to any of the other 'FL72' as Sky like to call us.

I think that the club/Venkys should be commended for managing to keep Rhodes and Gestede at the club until now. It would have been very easy to have cashed in as soon as the first club came in with a bid, yet they have stuck to their guns, even at the risk of losing money in the longer term.

I would understand and accept it if the club decided to 'cash in' on one or both of the above this summer, providing it was to a top division club and that it was a decent fee being received.

Likewise I would be delighted and happy if the club was able to keep one or both of them for next season, because they have both been fantastic players for us. They are feared in the Championship and I want us to keep such players.

The problem is that there is no guarantee that money raised from their potential sales could be reinvested into the playing squad. I am confident that Venkys would allow the manager to spend a decent amount of cash on new signings were FFP not in place. They have allowed Bowyer and his predecessors to all spend decent amounts of money since we were relegated despite knowing FFP was coming.

If we decided to sell Rhodes or Gestede, then usually you would look at reinvesting maybe half of the money received into new players and put the other half towards losses, debt or future use. If we could do that then I would like to think if the worst was to happen we would be able to go out and sign a Chris Wood, Dwight Gayle, Le Fondre etc. which might not guarantee 20+ goals a season but would in all likelihood at least reach double figures.

The fact that at present we can't do that, and there seems to be no guarantee we could even if we brought in big money through sales, to me means we have to either obtain guarantees from the Football League before consenting to any sales or we need to fight tooth and nail to keep those players and look to reduce losses in other ways e.g. phasing out the likes of Best and boosting other incomes.

It simply isn't the case that we 'have' to rely on a big sale or two to have any chance of complying. For example, a similar club to us, Bolton, have had no major sales since they were relegated, but have drastically reduced their wage bill to the point they have managed to satisfy the FL. Also see Wigan, who despite considerable expenditure under Coyle and Rosler have worked their way through 3 pay-offs and two relegations yet still have no embargo. Mind boggling.

[roverzee]

By the look of Tony Fernandes is expecting a positive outcome of the challenge on the FFP and the fine, and after scouring the internet a bit it looks like they are expecting this to be solved by beginning to mid June.

With regards to our situation I think there is plenty to be positive about for the summer. I really wouldn't see it as a disaster should Rhodes, and Gestede go (Even though I see them incredibly talented players who I love to see in the blue and white halves), but Rovers have always been able to make shrewd signings especially when big names have gone. I think this season is quite interesting with Leicester staying up, and look at the players that are running out of contract in the summer they are some deals to be done. Whether it is signing Chris Wood on loan, with Dwight Gayle (As Kamy suggested) then that would be equally as strong attack in my eyes than any other.

My biggest concern would be midfield but even there we don't need to go all out and splash the cash to get what we need. I would like to see us cash in on a few of our players like Hanley, Rhodes, Gestede, and use some of that cash to make some clever signings like bringing in Baptiste again as a CB, hell we should still make a play for Jamie Ward, and Rodolph Austin if we can as well to add some bite to the midfield.

People need to get it into their heads that FFP sanctions are quite specific about embargoed clubs buying players :

• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.

• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player’s wage (or a contribution towards it)

Even Kamy's ruse of doing some sort of deal with Palace / Gestede / Gayle would be impossible to pull off without scrutiny - you'd have to convince the Football League that suddenly Gayle had zero value and Gestede's value was a fraction of what would be expected ... and that's before you get on to wages.

[JHRover]

Forest have managed to lure Jamie Ward whilst under an embargo, despite interest from several other Championship clubs. It seems they have found a way of working within the £10-12k a week limit, so we should be able to do the same.

[Blue blood]

Forest have managed to lure Jamie Ward whilst under an embargo, despite interest from several other Championship clubs. It seems they have found a way of working within the £10-12k a week limit, so we should be able to do the same.

Exactly. Can't think of a single football rule that hasn't been bent or broken by clubs (finance wise) so come on Rovers, get your act together. We really don't help ourselves sometimes...

[DE.]

Our free transfers under GB over the past two seasons are:

Aaron Tumwa

Tommy Spurr

Yann Songo'o

Matt Kilgallon

Alan Judge

Chris Taylor

Simon Eastwood

Chris Brown

Luke Varney

Not counted DJ as he was a Crappleton signing as far as I remember.

Meanwhile we've used the loan market over the past two seasons to bring in (but not purchase):

Jay Spearing

Ryan Tunnicliffe

Alex Baptiste

Paul Taylor

Doniel Henry

Todd Kane

I may have missed a couple out, but the above is basically the level of player we're looking at with the embargo enforced and GB at the helm. I think it's fair to say under GB we've paid a fee for any player in the team who's contributed significantly (Marshall, Cairney, Rhodes, Gestede, Conway, Steele, Evans (debatable), Duffy (debatable))... other than Spurr, Kilgallon and Baptiste, it seems fair to say that so far our free transfer/loan dealings have been a bust and done very little to strengthen the team.

[roverzee]

Exactly. Can't think of a single football rule that hasn't been bent or broken by clubs (finance wise) so come on Rovers, get your act together. We really don't help ourselves sometimes...

There's no transfer fee involved with Ward, so what rule do you think Forest might have bent or broken?

[G Somerset Rover]

Important that we keep Rhodes/Gestede until this FFP decision is made with QPR. Unless obviously a ridiculously good offer is made for one of them (i.e. Hull's £12 million Rhodes bid last summer).

[JHRover]

There's no transfer fee involved with Ward, so what rule do you think Forest might have bent or broken?

They've managed to find a way, despite supposedly being limited to wages of about £11k a week, to beat off numerous rival clubs to the signing of a sought-after Championship player.

That either means that the embargo is having little/no effect when trying to sign decent players, in which case what are we worrying about, or it means that Forest have found a way of making him a suitable offer despite their embargo which has persuaded him to pick them over other interested clubs.

[windymiller7]

45 mins minimum on a good day more like.

I dropped my daughter off at the indoor centre at Ewood at 0840 this morning and was in the office right in the centre of Mcr near the post office by 0930 having parked up and had a 5-10 min walk.

So I'd say you're pretty close as it's half term so the roads were quiet.

[roverzee]

They've managed to find a way, despite supposedly being limited to wages of about £11k a week, to beat off numerous rival clubs to the signing of a sought-after Championship player.

That either means that the embargo is having little/no effect when trying to sign decent players, in which case what are we worrying about, or it means that Forest have found a way of making him a suitable offer despite their embargo which has persuaded him to pick them over other interested clubs.

I'd suggest the main thing they could offer was location. For the last 10 years he's played for Chesterfield, Sheffield United and Derby. All along with Forest within a 45 minute drive of each other. At the age of 29 and released by Derby, I bet he was delighted Forest wanted him.

And I'm sure he'll scrape by on the half a million quid per year they are allowed to pay him.

[ABBEY]

By the look of Tony Fernandes is expecting a positive outcome of the challenge on the FFP and the fine, and after scouring the internet a bit it looks like they are expecting this to be solved by beginning to mid June.

With regards to our situation I think there is plenty to be positive about for the summer. I really wouldn't see it as a disaster should Rhodes, and Gestede go (Even though I see them incredibly talented players who I love to see in the blue and white halves), but Rovers have always been able to make shrewd signings especially when big names have gone. I think this season is quite interesting with Leicester staying up, and look at the players that are running out of contract in the summer they are some deals to be done. Whether it is signing Chris Wood on loan, with Dwight Gayle (As Kamy suggested) then that would be equally as strong attack in my eyes than any other.

My biggest concern would be midfield but even there we don't need to go all out and splash the cash to get what we need. I would like to see us cash in on a few of our players like Hanley, Rhodes, Gestede, and use some of that cash to make some clever signings like bringing in Baptiste again as a CB, hell we should still make a play for Jamie Ward, and Rodolph Austin if we can as well to add some bite to the midfield.

er they both go and Chris brown main man and you ain't worried ? Ok

[tomphil]

I'd suggest the main thing they could offer was location. For the last 10 years he's played for Chesterfield, Sheffield United and Derby. All along with Forest within a 45 minute drive of each other. At the age of 29 and released by Derby, I bet he was delighted Forest wanted him.

And I'm sure he'll scrape by on the half a million quid per year they are allowed to pay him.

Haven't they agreed a contract of 10k pwk for 2 years rising to 20k after that or something.

Is there anything to stop a club offering a 2 year contract at 10k then agreeing to pay a big loyalty bonus at the end which would equate it to 20k over the term just run ?

[tomphil]

Souness and allardyce are at there brst when they have to wheel and deal to find bargains and quality hi reputation freebies,give them a good sized transfet kitty though and they waste it on dross and things start to unravel at their clubs.

Half agree but I'd suggest Souness hit the buffers here when the cheque book closed on him after the Grabbi farce. Both are bold managers with a good bit of pull so there would have been some big loan signings or frees with someone like Jack stumping up the wages

[Salgado Is Still A Hero]

Haven't they agreed a contract of 10k pwk for 2 years rising to 20k after that or something.

Is there anything to stop a club offering a 2 year contract at 10k then agreeing to pay a big loyalty bonus at the end which would equate it to 20k over the term just run ?

It would be good to get some clarification on this. I mean, what's to stop us from paying a player 10 grand a week with a 10 grand appearance fee?

[roverzee]

Haven't they agreed a contract of 10k pwk for 2 years rising to 20k after that or something.

Is there anything to stop a club offering a 2 year contract at 10k then agreeing to pay a big loyalty bonus at the end which would equate it to 20k over the term just run ?

The rules seem quite clear - they state "maximum employee costs of not more than 600,000 per annum" - so that includes wages, any bonuses, as well as employers national insurance contributions and any other costs associated with employing someone. Even agents fees (if there are any) have to be included in that 600,000, and can only be paid as a benefit in kind to the incoming player (ie not directly to the agent).

Given that clubs have to register players with the FL, I don't see how the rules can be bent other than straight lying to the FL about future payments - and I assume doing that would risk severe consequences.

[tomphil]

It could encourage clubs owners to start bunging players by other means I reckon. Offshore funds, gifts, donations, Jewellery, cars, houses allsorts of stuff. Could even go back to the old days and give them a bag of cash from the car park takings every home game

[perthblue02]

Did I read somewhere that the limit for any signing that can be given must also include any agents fees as well as wages bonuses etc. (oops just seen Roverzee post).

Wonder if some of the agents that have benefited from dealings over the last 4 and a half years will cut us some slack,

[tomphil]

The rules seem quite clear - they state "maximum employee costs of not more than 600,000 per annum" - so that includes wages, any bonuses, as well as employers national insurance contributions and any other costs associated with employing someone. Even agents fees (if there are any) have to be included in that 600,000, and can only be paid as a benefit in kind to the incoming player (ie not directly to the agent).

Given that clubs have to register players with the FL, I don't see how the rules can be bent other than straight lying to the FL about future payments - and I assume doing that would risk severe consequences.

Yes but if the contract is for a few years and the club maybe out of the embargo by then maybe that's a way around it.

[Bucksrover]

If we are stuck with the embargo then I would rather we sign youngsters, as these will be the only people within budget who have the potential to be any good.

Really don't want to see average journeymen in their late 20's + arriving.

Risky to get youngsters but at least there is a chance they will be decent.

[MCMC1875]

I see Eddie Howe took Bournemouth out of League 2 in 2009/10 under a transfer embargo.

[mustard]

Our free transfers under GB over the past two seasons are:

Aaron Tumwa

Tommy Spurr

Yann Songo'o

Matt Kilgallon

Alan Judge

Chris Taylor

Simon Eastwood

Chris Brown

Luke Varney

Not counted DJ as he was a Crappleton signing as far as I remember.

Meanwhile we've used the loan market over the past two seasons to bring in (but not purchase):

Jay Spearing

Ryan Tunnicliffe

Alex Baptiste

Paul Taylor

Doniel Henry

Todd Kane

I may have missed a couple out, but the above is basically the level of player we're looking at with the embargo enforced and GB at the helm. I think it's fair to say under GB we've paid a fee for any player in the team who's contributed significantly (Marshall, Cairney, Rhodes, Gestede, Conway, Steele, Evans (debatable), Duffy (debatable))... other than Spurr, Kilgallon and Baptiste, it seems fair to say that so far our free transfer/loan dealings have been a bust and done very little to strengthen the team.

Liam Feeney...