[Archived] Transfer Talk

[chaddyrovers]

Rhodes will stay.

Gestede for seven million i'd let go and replace with Sagbo.

It's not as if Rudy and Rhodes have been an amazing partnership is it?

One name for you.... Emmanuel Mayuka! Signed for Southampton a few years ago and flopped, was on loan at Sochaux in France last year but a very pacy athletic player just in the mould of Josh King. Apparently due to signing a five year contract they can't get rid of him and wont play him so perhaps a loan deal would replace the out gone King?

FOR EVERY GOAL WE WILL LOSE, WE NEED TO TIGHTEN UP BY ONE AT THE BACK.

Next Season:

Steele

McShane Duffy Kilgallon Olsson

Marshall Evans Cairney

Sagbo Rhodes Mayuka

Mayuka is a good suggestion tbf.

Chaddy what do you base your "suggestion " on ? Have you seen him ? I know I haven't.

Rovers were linked with Hoffer about 6 years ago when Sam Allardyce was here as Rovers manager.

He is pacey striker and would give us the pace we need up front.

here are some of his goals from his days at Rapid Vienna(season 2008/09)

here is Transfermarkt page aswell http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/erwin-hoffer/profil/spieler/25785

this is just a suggestion and nothing more Abbey

[AJW]

There's good players at reserve/under 21 level at the top PL clubs desperate for a chance to play and impress , there's good players out of contract at championship clubs with a point to prove , there's good players further down the leagues with the hunger and desire to prove themselves at a higher level ... these are the players we now have to find , convince to join us within the budget we have and inspire to perform ...... over to you Gary

[Waggy76]

It's not the first time we've had to shop at Lidl and it probably won't be the last. In the past we've signed and played far worse than Taylor and Brown - Frank Lord, Andy Needham, Alex Russell, John O'Mara to name but four - and it didn't prove to be the end of the world. We are going to need a huge amount of luck in picking up the right players on frees and particularly trying to convince them to accept less than £10,000 a week - unbelievable as that amount might seem to most of us. There is no doubt that next season is going to be tough, particularly if Gestede and/or Rhodes goes but we've come through tough times before. Personally, I can't see the point in worrying about transfer stories in the press - most rumours are of the Nixon variety that rarely come to anything anyway. By the end of August we will know what we've got and we will, as we have done in past, deal with it. For now, I'll concentrate on a summer - if we ever get the weather for one - of cricket.

I think Brown will turn out to be every bit as bad As the legend John O Mara ...I saw O Mara score !

[Parsonblue]

Some very good points made about £10k / week being a high enough wage to put a decent team together like Burnley, Bournemouth, Ipswich etc.

Sadly, Bowyer is lining up his excuses already. IMV, not only has this boring incompetent dumbed down our football structure, he clearly has a mesmeric impact on the likes of Parsonblue who would seem happy to accept midtable mediocrity.

I think It's unbelievable how far we've fallen under the crass mismanagement of Raos, Shaw and Bowyer.

You seem to have difficulty in grasping reality at times Mercerman. One minute you say we are doomed and the next you talk about midtable mediocrity. If we are midtable we are not doomed as you so often predict.

[47er]

Our natural place between 1936 and when Jack took over in 1991 was largely the Second Division. Last time I looked that's the division we are in now. Jack provided the foundations for a Premier League club and lifted us out of what had become our natural level and the Trust maintained it for a time. However, as John Williams always pointed out relegation would be a disaster which would be difficult to recover from and so it has proved. No club is immune from relegation although I suspect no club has thrown itself headlong into relegation in the same shoddy way in which the Rovers did.

What's natural about choosing 1936 to start from?

I bet Wimbledon fans would totally disagree with you ...notice you never mentioned Rangers

No disrespect to fans of Chester etc but none of those mentioned are on Rovers level or ever have been

I was going to mention Rangers! I bet none of their fans feel that the original club has gone but legally it has.

Doesn't matter Den does it?

[Mercer]

You seem to have difficulty in grasping reality at times Mercerman. One minute you say we are doomed and the next you talk about midtable mediocrity. If we are midtable we are not doomed as you so often predict.

Bottom line is promotion to PL is our financial and future survival.

we are at least at least two seasons behind schedule.

Has the penny not dropped yet ?

[Parsonblue]

Bottom line is promotion to PL is our financial and future survival.

we are at least at least two seasons behind schedule.

Has the penny not dropped yet ?

As Derby have found this season, no club can guarantee promotion full stop. There is no manager - experienced or otherwise - who can ensure promotion. There can be no schedule because nobody can guarantee promotion full stop. Clearly that is a concept you have difficulty with. If was possible to find a manager who could guarantee promotion surely we wouldn't have spent a quarter of a century outside of the top flight between 1966 and 1992 - or were we 25 years behind schedule at that point?

[roverzee]

I bet Wimbledon fans would totally disagree with you ...notice you never mentioned Rangers

No disrespect to fans of Chester etc but none of those mentioned are on Rovers level or ever have been

I was going to mention Rangers! I bet none of their fans feel that the original club has gone but legally it has.

Doesn't matter Den does it?

Chester - Rovers - Glasgow Rangers

Surely you can both see that if you are going to use a comparison of Rovers and Chester to support your point about being at a certain "level", you can't then use a comparison between Rovers and Rangers to support the same argument?

Have either of you ever been to Ibrox, before or after the newco? It couldn't be a more different animal than Blackburn Rovers.

Rangers should no longer exist in any shape or form given their wrongdoings, but that was never going to be allowed to happen, and instead 3 years later they're in the playoffs to get back in the top league with a latest home crowd figure of 49,200!!

If you were going to split Scottish football (in terms of influence and importance) into a pie chart, it would show perhaps 30% for the national team, 30% for every other club bar the Glasgow giants, and 20% each for Celtic and Rangers.

How can you pretend that a newco Rovers would (a) even be allowed to happen and ( ever get beyond Evo-Stik 2nd division north?

[Darwen Rover 007]

The biggest transfer in this pre season we need desperately is Mark Warburton

Will get the best of what will be s depleted squad

[roverzee]

Bottom line is promotion to PL is our financial and future survival.

Has the penny not dropped yet ?

Bottom line for now is VENKYS CONTINUING TO FUND THE CLUB is our financial and future survival.

Nobody likes it, but it is beyond dispute - in fact almost every post you make on here proves it.

[thenodrog]

Think fans need to get used to FFP and its impacts.

Next season, we get our last parachute payment and our 'natural' turnover would then be about £12million.

Beyond that, as a Championship club, radical action would then need to be taken as I would estimate that our annual loss would be in the £15m to £20m region and that is after slashing payroll costs by about £10m from its last reported cost of £35m - remember, Rovers employ about 270 people. Add to that running / maintenance costs of Brockhall and Ewood and you can see the scale of the task.

I struggle to see a way out for Rovers. Fasten your seatbelts.

Don't worry I'm sure if we put athlete and rovershaun in charge everything will be fine and dandy. After all we won the FA cup 3 x on the spin remember..... when the years began with 18!

[RevidgeBlue]

I can see the argument on both sides of the coin on this. I don't think Gordon is being unreasonable in saying that our "natural position" post abolition of the maximum wage and pre Jack was old Div 2 or Championship level with a sprinkling of old div 3 or League 1 now thrown in.

However I think the advent of the Premier League and the colossal TV money that went with it changed the landscape completely. I don't think there is such a thing as "natural position" anymore. In recent seasons Clubs like Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, and in particular Blackpool and Burnley have shown how it is possible to reach the Premier League on a modest budget if you have a good enough manager. Thereafter if you can survive a season or two you should never rely be relegated again such is the financial chasm between Premiership and Championship. Obviously it doesn't work out exactly like that as things change and some managers don't work out at certain places regardless of budget.

Unfortunately I don't think we have the manager in situ to take us forward. But put a wheeler dealer manager like Ken Furphy in charge, or a manager who could get more out of the existing players like Warburton or McClaren and I'd be confident as to our prospects.

I'd also like to agree with the point several others have made about all the whinging and wailing about only being able to pay 10k p.w. Bet that was what Blackpool and Burnley were paying their players when they got promoted.

[Athlete]

Don't worry I'm sure if we put athlete and rovershaun in charge everything will be fine and dandy. After all we won the FA cup 3 x on the spin remember..... when the years began with 18!

Put you in charge all you'd think about is the 18th hole

[joey_big_nose]

I can see the argument on both sides of the coin on this. I don't think Gordon is being unreasonable in saying that our "natural position" post abolition of the maximum wage and pre Jack was old Div 2 or Championship level with a sprinkling of old div 3 or League 1 now thrown in.

However I think the advent of the Premier League and the colossal TV money that went with it changed the landscape completely. I don't think there is such a thing as "natural position" anymore. In recent seasons Clubs like Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, and in particular Blackpool and Burnley have shown how it is possible to reach the Premier League on a modest budget if you have a good enough manager. Thereafter if you can survive a season or two you should never rely be relegated again such is the financial chasm between Premiership and Championship. Obviously it doesn't work out exactly like that as things change and some managers don't work out at certain places regardless of budget.

Unfortunately I don't think we have the manager in situ to take us forward. But put a wheeler dealer manager like Ken Furphy in charge, or a manager who could get more out of the existing players like Warburton or McClaren and I'd be confident as to our prospects.

I'd also like to agree with the point several others have made about all the whinging and wailing about only being able to pay 10k p.w. Bet that was what Blackpool and Burnley were paying their players when they got promoted.

McClaren spent a fortune, already had a decent squad, and failed to even make the playoffs.

Why do you think he would get more out of our existing players?

Warburton will get much more attractive offers.

Agree that money is not that important. Coyle, Dyche, Warburton, Ian what's his name with Blackpool etc etc all got people promoted on a shoestring.

The fallacy though is that if you find the manager who has done it before they will get you up. If that's so why did Coyle, McClaren etc tank with new clubs?

I like Dych for example but the form books suggests its more likely he will fail than succeed at his next club.

I would say there are only four managers who are "certs" in English football who have proved they can walk into a club and definitely improve it. Mourinho, Allardyce, Pulis and, maybe I'm biased, Mark Hughes despite his poor time at QPR. The Argentinian fella at Spurs also looks like he could do it.

For most it depends finding the right manager and putting them in the right environment. Sadly our environment stinks.

[USABlue]

Sagbo was on loan at Wolves last season.

http://www.wolvesfancast.com/hull-back-best-yannick-sagbo/

Judging from his wiki, he's a striker who can't score. Sounds like he'd fit right in.

Can't see us signing Sagbo, Leon Clarke yes. Sagbo with a y added on the end just does not sound right. Clarky however fits the mould.

[Stuart]

As Derby have found this season, no club can guarantee promotion full stop. There is no manager - experienced or otherwise - who can ensure promotion. There can be no schedule because nobody can guarantee promotion full stop. Clearly that is a concept you have difficulty with. If was possible to find a manager who could guarantee promotion surely we wouldn't have spent a quarter of a century outside of the top flight between 1966 and 1992 - or were we 25 years behind schedule at that point?

There are some managers who will guarantee top 6 though. We need at least that. Such hollow arguments and historical benchmarks to back a guy who isn't a manager just because he's yout friend a good guy. The only people defending him at this point are those closest to him, those who claim to represent "the fans".

So seem to think that top half is a successful season. It's not. It might be better than what's to come. It might be something you can look back on later, as we really struggle, and say that it is proof that you were right. But the fact is that Bowyer (someone you continue to champion) is overseeing the slide and it has to stop.

As for better managers, we couldn't afford them until Jack arrived - at the moment we can/could. And what was the first thing that Jack did? Brought in a manager who could personify his vision. A talisman that could inspire players. We don't necessarily need another Kenny - although it would be nice - we need a respected figure that the players can all get behind, without all the chumminess. That's a coaches job.

[USABlue]

There are so many players we have 'disposed' of because of lapses in form or doubts. We have to be patient with the current position and continue to get the 'below Director' level in order.

Gallagher,Derbyshire etc could all do a job for us at the moment. Gareth Ainsworth next Manager when we get 'our' Club back.

It has to get worse before it gets better. Hold on tight.

Let's not forget those better than average players were disposed of when we were a half decent prem club. I always liked Gally, rumour was he was perhaps our most technically gifted player. Big head though I think. No what we need is a fresh manager with a more positive outlook. I can't for the life of me understand why the chicken pluckers can willingly drop millions upon millions and not demand we get back to the Premier League.

[Stuart]

Let's not forget those better than average players were disposed of when we were a half decent prem club. I always liked Gally, rumour was he was perhaps our most technically gifted player. Big head though I think. No what we need is a fresh manager with a more positive outlook. I can't for the life of me understand why the chicken pluckers can willingly drop millions upon millions and not demand we get back to the Premier League.

A feature of Bowyer's 'management style' has been a failure to manage egos. The kind of arrogance that comes with natural ability is a necessary evil, not an opposing force to be eliminated. It's no surprise that Bowyer's Rovers have no flair about them. It's because Bowyer only wants humble grafters.

Labore et Labore. That sounds flippant, it's not. Bowyer has ignored what this club is fundamentally about because of his lack of man-management ability to harness, no harness is the wrong word, to enable the players that deliver the Arte.

[thenodrog]

Put you in charge all you'd think about is the 18th hole

Seems you are setting yourself up as some sort of class warrior / working class hero athlete. You need to try and get out more. Go down that route and you'll die as one. Bitter, twisted and lonely. Think on Wolfy, the world has moved on.

[Parsonblue]

There are some managers who will guarantee top 6 though. We need at least that. Such hollow arguments and historical benchmarks to back a guy who isn't a manager just because he's yout friend a good guy. The only people defending him at this point are those closest to him, those who claim to represent "the fans".

So seem to think that top half is a successful season. It's not. It might be better than what's to come. It might be something you can look back on later, as we really struggle, and say that it is proof that you were right. But the fact is that Bowyer (someone you continue to champion) is overseeing the slide and it has to stop.

As for better managers, we couldn't afford them until Jack arrived - at the moment we can/could. And what was the first thing that Jack did? Brought in a manager who could personify his vision. A talisman that could inspire players. We don't necessarily need another Kenny - although it would be nice - we need a respected figure that the players can all get behind, without all the chumminess. That's a coaches job.

Who has claimed to represent "the fans"? The only ones I can see claiming that are those demanding change because they can't cope with not being a Premier League club. I'm sure Derby thought McClaren would guarantee top six at least - he didn't. The fact that history doesn't support your viewpoint Stuart doesn't make it hollow. History is history - like it or not. There seems to be a view that the Rovers have a divine right to Premier League football. We don't. There were many excellent managers employed by the club between 1966 and 1991 who failed to deliver top flight football but that didn't make them bad managers. I don't think anyone viewed Marshall, Quigley, Furphy, Lee, Smith, Kendall, Saxton or Mackay as bad managers. Some were better than others, some had more success than others. We all want to see the Rovers back in the top flight, but some seem to think that changing the manager will guarantee that. The impact of FFP is going to make it extremely difficult for the Rovers to compete with many clubs in this division and that's before you consider the fact that the Rovers income streams are much smaller than many of the clubs we are trying to compete against. There are a number of factors which come into play in terms of guaranteeing a successful side apart from who occupies the manager's office.

[den]

You're right about FFP making it difficult in the future Parson. That's why I argued from the beginning that we needed better than Bowyer.

However, you're wrong when you say some fans think we have a divine right to be a premier league club - noone has said that, or believes it. But some fans want it and what's wrong with that?

Arguing that no manager can guarantee promotion is right, because they can't. But some managers give you a better chance than others. You could have added that no manager can guarantee to keep you in the league, but I don't hear that - why not?

You seem to be pushing the line that everything's inevitable, - that there's nothing we can do about anything - and it's where we belong anyway. Was that your view when Kean was manager?

[thenodrog]

There are some managers who will guarantee top 6 though. We need at least that.

Really? Well perennial favourites on here MacArthy and maclaren couldn't do that could they? But carry on perpetuating the myth and write to them both and see if they would even consider the basket case blackburn job. I doubt you'd even get a reply.

[chaddyrovers]

There are some managers who will guarantee top 6 though.

like who?

IMO, no manager can guarantee you top 6. a lot of getting into top 6 come down to player form, injuries, putting together a series of wins and being consistent

McClaren couldn't do this at Derby even with some good quality players on loan from PL clubs like Lingard, Bent, Ince.

Pearce/Freedman couldn't get Notts Forest into the top despite spending around 10 mil on players

[matt83]

Who has claimed to represent "the fans"? The only ones I can see claiming that are those demanding change because they can't cope with not being a Premier League club. I'm sure Derby thought McClaren would guarantee top six at least - he didn't. The fact that history doesn't support your viewpoint Stuart doesn't make it hollow. History is history - like it or not. There seems to be a view that the Rovers have a divine right to Premier League football. We don't. There were many excellent managers employed by the club between 1966 and 1991 who failed to deliver top flight football but that didn't make them bad managers. I don't think anyone viewed Marshall, Quigley, Furphy, Lee, Smith, Kendall, Saxton or Mackay as bad managers. Some were better than others, some had more success than others. We all want to see the Rovers back in the top flight, but some seem to think that changing the manager will guarantee that. The impact of FFP is going to make it extremely difficult for the Rovers to compete with many clubs in this division and that's before you consider the fact that the Rovers income streams are much smaller than many of the clubs we are trying to compete against. There are a number of factors which come into play in terms of guaranteeing a successful side apart from who occupies the manager's office.

No manager can guarantee promotion but surely we need to maximise our chances by employing a good manager. It may be the case that no good manager will come but my problem is I suspect the venkys aren't even trying and are happy to drag along with the likes of bowyer because he's a good little company man.

If bowyer is geniunely the best we can do things at Ewood are even worse than I think. And I think it's pretty bad.

[Pedro]

I'm beginning to hope that someone comes in for GB. I think his time has come as it did with Allardyce. Too many people have painted themselves into a corner over this in the absolutely gormless assumption that we can only get a better manager in.

In truth this thread could provide a suitable epitaph for quite a few on here. Although equally in truth too many of the Allardyce haters and those who threw out the red carpet in celebration welcoming first Paul Ince, then the Venkymob and then Kean are still here spewing their bile as if they are worlds greatest authorities on all things football.

Short memories abound and hard lessons don't appear to have been learned.

Amarillo you seem to expect much BUT do you ever have any financial input into the club?

You certainly don't have a short memory, every other post is an essay of you simply patting yourself on the back over one thing you've got right nearly five years ago. A very selective memory though.

In regards to a "natural positon" there's no such thing. There is nothing natural about any football club, it's man made, man influenced and man ruined. Are Swansea in their natural position? Or Leeds? Man City? Sheffield Wednesday? Football teams get influenced by luck, money, ethos, desire, greed and decision making. It's easy to point out the elements that make a club successful, opposed to those that won't.

Throughout our history we have been all over the place but like any team, you are only very good or very bad management decisions away from playing in different divisions. Our bad decisions have now sent us back towards a level that you (and I...more briefly!) recognise but let's not discount almost 20 years of establishment in the top tier...it's not a flash in the pan. What I totally agree with you is your belief that the decision to remove/drive away Finn and Williams etc is the worst thing to happen to Rovers, for me those men represented this club actually growing in stature and stability and becoming a self feeding business - rather than just (aimlessly at times) throwing money at a project.