Academy & U21s

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Chapman's sttitude seems a problem atm as Mowbray suggest weeks ago(i think) 

Davenport's problem is injures at the minute. 

Absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying, that the pair should very much continue with the Under 23s if and when they dont make the matchday 18, as they are young players just like Butterworth, Mols etc.

[JamieUK]

Can't say I buy into this 'Chapman has an attitude'. I only follow the U23s via what's online but it seems as though he had a run of games where he was scoring / assisting yet has remained where he is. Samuel does similar but is straight onto the bench at the first opportunity and subsequently getting on the pitch. If I was Harry Chapman I'd be a little bit pissed off too. It's got to be demoralising thinking it doesn't matter how he plays for the U23s, he won't be near the first team on a Saturday.

[JacknOry]

Just now, JamieUK said:

Can't say I buy into this 'Chapman has an attitude'. I only follow the U23s via what's online but it seems as though he had a run of games where he was scoring / assisting yet has remained where he is. Samuel does similar but is straight onto the bench at the first opportunity and subsequently getting on the pitch. If I was Harry Chapman I'd be a little bit pissed off too. It's got to be demoralising thinking it doesn't matter how he plays for the U23s, he won't be near the first team on a Saturday.

Exactly, he probably came here thinking he would be getting more opportunities than he did at Boro. He might as well have just stayed there.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I've only dipped in and out of this thread as I don't watch or know much about the young lads.However that's simply not true. Against Oldhan, Rovers were crap untill Rothwell, Dack and Chapman came on and all three played well to change the game, including Chapman. 

I disagree completely, Chapman provided nothing in that game in my personal opinion.

[Guest]

Timi Sobowale is a centre-back on trial. Was at Manchester City last season for the Under 18's. Current score vs Everton is 0-0.

[Hasta]

Just now, JoeH said:

I disagree completely, Chapman provided nothing in that game in my personal opinion.

Go re-read the match thread. Many people commented on he helped changed the game and many people wanted him picked him in their starting line up for the following game.  

 

[Guest]

Just now, Hasta said:

Go re-read the match thread. Many people commented on he helped changed the game and many people wanted him picked him in their starting line up for the following game.

I have eyes, I have my own opinion. I disagree with you that's all. I think he had a poor game when he came on.

[Guest]

2-0 now. JRC and Davenport with the goals. Scrappy game according to Rich Sharpe.

[Amo]

In the event Mowbray would deign to give Chapman a run-out in the first team, you know he'd drop him as soon as he failed to make an impression. Meanwhile, Bennett, Armstrong, Williams, Bell etc. can go missing week in, week out without penalty.

[Kie_BRFC]

Just now, JoeH said:

2-0 now. JRC and Davenport with the goals. Scrappy game according to Rich Sharpe.

Not gonna update us that chapman scored? 

[Guest]

Just now, Kie_BRFC said:

Not gonna update us that chapman scored? 

A little busy at work. Now 4-0, Chapman and Buckley with the goals. Chapman now off injured (shocker). 

[roversfan99]

Ultimately, whether someone rates Chapman of course is down to their opinion, but again today he seems to have tangibly impacted on a game with a goal and an assist. Hope he is not too hurt and fit enough to make the 18 on Saturday.

Its the suggestion that he is just getting in the way of other similarly aged players when playing for the under 23s as a 21 year old that deserves ridicule. 

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Its the suggestion that he is just getting in the way of other similarly aged players when playing for the under 23s as a 21 year old that deserves ridicule. 

Chapman has 37 senior appearances, wasn't signed to the Under 23's...
Stefan Mols has never played senior football...

One gets a game for the youth team today, one doesn't. I don't agree with that personally. I have a different opinion to you, and you say that deserves ridicule... Silly comment. Sorry I don't rate Harry Chapman so highly, lock me up!

I'll also add this is a Blackburn Rovers B Team vs Everton Under 18's so I wouldn't read too much into this game.

Edited October 29, 2019 by JoeH

[Guest]

By comparison, Jadon Sancho, Aged just 19, has made only 16 more appearances than Harry Chapman. If Sancho suddenly where playing for the England Youth Team again and hindering the progress of other England youth players, it wouldn't be right - and its the same here.

It's not about age, its about experience, status and the players abilities. Harry Chapman is absolutely better than 23's football, he's above that, whether he's good enough for our first team is a separate question, but I just don't agree that Stefan Mols is sat on the bench because Tony Mowbray doesn't want HC playing for him... seems a really odd thing to do to someone like Stefan Mols who has so much potential.

[Hasta]

Just now, JoeH said:

Chapman has 37 senior appearances, wasn't signed to the Under 23's...
Stefan Mols has never played senior football...

One gets a game for the youth team today, one doesn't. I don't agree with that personally. I have a different opinion to you, and you say that deserves ridicule... Silly comment. Sorry I don't rate Harry Chapman so highly, lock me up!

 I'll also add this is a Blackburn Rovers B Team vs Everton Under 18's so I wouldn't read too much into this game.

I get the point your making if you believe that Mols is closer to the first team than Chapman. However I don't think that's the case. Therefore Chapman needs game time for if he gets that first team chance.

Giving Graham a run out makes sense so he's sharp when we inevitably end up relying on him again.

Smallwood is odd one because, bar another 6 first team injuries, I can't see him pushing for a first team start again. In that situation I agree it would be more beneficial to play one of the youth team.

Out of interest, what are you going to do with Brereton when he returns. Let him rot not playing any football as well?

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Hasta

[Guest]

Just now, Hasta said:

I get the point your making if you believe that Mols is closer to the first team than Chapman. However I don't think that's the case. Therefore Chapman needs game time for if he gets that first team chance.

No, Mols isn't closer to the first team than Harry Chapman. I agree with you there. If Harry Chapman, who's absolutely better than 23's football, needs game time - then give it to him.. for the first team!

Not under Billy Barr, hindering Stefan Mols and Tom White etc....

[Guest]

Just now, Hasta said:

Out of interest, what are you going to do with Brereton when he returns. Let him rot not playing any football as well?

Brereton should be at least on the bench or playing in our team. He cost ridiculous amounts, and if he isn't good enough, then the club should admit that and either sell him on, or loan him out. I personally have a lot of time for Ben, he hasn't had anywhere near enough chances as a striker, not compared to someone like Gallagher anyway. 

I'm not saying Davenport or Chapman should "rot" either.. they're not injured, clearly, so either get them into the first team, or move them on. It's not Stefan Mols fault that we have a squad that's way over capacity.

Edited October 29, 2019 by JoeH

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

Chapman has 37 senior appearances, wasn't signed to the Under 23's...
Stefan Mols has never played senior football...

One gets a game for the youth team today, one doesn't. I don't agree with that personally. I have a different opinion to you, and you say that deserves ridicule... Silly comment. Sorry I don't rate Harry Chapman so highly, lock me up!

I'll also add this is a Blackburn Rovers B Team vs Everton Under 18's so I wouldn't read too much into this game.

Presumably it is because Harry Chapman is seen in terms of our younger players as closer to the first team? Youve basically admitted that hes too good for Under 23 football yourself.

Mowbray stubbornly sticks to players like Armstrong which many disagree with, but it would be totally senseless if Mowbray wont consider him for the first team, something youve agreed with the manager on, then you ignore a player better than your other Under 23s, who is only 21 and allow him to fall through the cracks for no apparent reason. Sancho would be exactly the same if somehow he stopped being picked but as a top class player already that wouldnt happen.

Mowbray was quite clear when Chapman signed that a first team spot was anything but imminent, so I totally disagree that he was signed as a senior player but its irrelevant. Is he picked for the first team? No. Is he only 21 years old? Yes. Is he good enough to play for our under 23s? Yes. So play him.

But even so, I have no idea why that makes a difference. I see the fact that Chapman has impacted games for us at League 1 level as a teenager, and that Davenport had a successful loan spell at Burton in the Championship and has worked with Pep as positives. I dont see why they are negatives in your head. 

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Presumably it is because Harry Chapman is seen in terms of our younger players as closer to the first team? Youve basically admitted that hes too good for Under 23 football yourself.

Mowbray stubbornly sticks to players like Armstrong which many disagree with, but it would be totally senseless if Mowbray wont consider him for the first team, something youve agreed with the manager on, then you ignore a player better than your other Under 23s, who is only 21 and allow him to fall through the cracks for no apparent reason. Sancho would be exactly the same if somehow he stopped being picked but as a top class player already that wouldnt happen.

Mowbray was quite clear when Chapman signed that a first team spot was anything but imminent, so I totally disagree that he was signed as a senior player but its irrelevant. Is he picked for the first team? No. Is he only 21 years old? Yes. Is he good enough to play for our under 23s? Yes. So play him.

But even so, I have no idea why that makes a difference. I see the fact that Chapman has impacted games for us at League 1 level as a teenager, and that Davenport had a successful loan spell at Burton in the Championship and has worked with Pep as positives. I dont see why they are negatives in your head. 

Harry Chapman was not signed to play for our Under 23's. He just wasn't. Tom White? Sure. Joe Nuttall a few years back? 100%. But Harry Chapman... you seriously can't believe that.

Ask yourself why Joe Rankin-Costello and John Buckley can get on our bench and Harry Chapman can't. The two former are and have been youth players at this club... they're above him in the pecking order... surely you can see there's a reason for that?

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, JoeH said:

Harry Chapman was not signed to play for our Under 23's. 

The question is what was he signed for? He has been fit for the majority of his time here yet has barley ever even made the first team squad, its not like Mowbray didn't know what he was getting with Chapman. Sadly at the moment he has to go down on the ever growing long list of poor signings made by Mowbray.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Harry Chapman was not signed to play for our Under 23's. He just wasn't. Tom White? Sure. Joe Nuttall a few years back? 100%. But Harry Chapman... you seriously can't believe that.

Ask yourself why Joe Rankin-Costello and John Buckley can get on our bench and Harry Chapman can't. The two former are and have been youth players at this club... they're above him in the pecking order... surely you can see there's a reason for that?

I dont understand why that matters? He is one of the 11 best young players we have who arent in the first team. Simple as that. All players are signed to play in the first team at some stage, Chapman wasnt initially either. Perhaps he was intended to sooner than say White but its irrelevant.

Im not sure a man who feels like Bennett should be the first on the team sheet is necessarily always right but my main point was not that Chapman should be in the 18, although I think he should, it is that if he isnt in the 18 he is well entitled to play for the under 23s, seeing as hes a good prospect and only 21. Your logic for why he shouldnt is in my opinion very flawed. As an aside, Buckley shouldnt be in the 18 yet, he looks way off and Rankin Costello hasnt played a league minute yet.

[philipl]

4-0 half time, 4-3 with two quick fire late Everton goals and a minute of added time left...

 

[Guest]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

The question is what was he signed for? He has been fit for the majority of his time here yet has barley ever even made the first team squad, its not like Mowbray didn't know what he was getting with Chapman. Sadly at the moment he has to go down on the ever growing long list of poor signings made by Mowbray.

I agree.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I dont understand why that matters? He is one of the 11 best young players we have who arent in the first team. Simple as that. All players are signed to play in the first team at some stage, Chapman wasnt initially either. Perhaps he was intended to sooner than say White but its irrelevant.

Im not sure a man who feels like Bennett should be the first on the team sheet is necessarily always right but my main point was not that Chapman should be in the 18, although I think he should, it is that if he isnt in the 18 he is well entitled to play for the under 23s, seeing as hes a good prospect and only 21. Your logic for why he shouldnt is in my opinion very flawed. As an aside, Buckley shouldnt be in the 18 yet, he looks way off and Rankin Costello hasnt played a league minute yet.

My opinion is my opinion. I don't think Harry Chapman is good enough for our first team, but he's not a 23's player. Stefan Mols and JRC haven't played first team football because they're academy lads. HC isn't playing first team football because Tony Mowbray clearly doesn't rate him highly enough.

Your logic that Chapman should play for the 23's each week, purely because he happens to be a little younger seems flawed to me too. Weird that you can't just accept my opinion is different to yours... I've said so many times now... its just my opinion does it really matter so much?

[Tom]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

A little busy at work. Now 4-0, Chapman and Buckley with the goals. Chapman now off injured (shocker). 

You have a point, Harry is very prone to impact head injuries 

[Parsonblue]

Strange game at Brockhall this afternoon.  4-0 up at half-time and coasting against a very young Everton side.  We missed numerous chances to increase the lead but failed to take them.  We then got very sloppy with our passing and marking and Hilton, who is usually so reliable, made a couple of horrendous errors as Everton almost snatched a draw at the end.  

Like the first team it was a game of two halves.  First half we looked what we were - a vastly experienced side playing against a very young side as Everton fielded a number of their Under-18 team.  Second half we got very careless and started to overplay with the result that mistakes crept in.

I thought Danny Graham worked hard up front and held the ball up and tried to play in the youngsters around him.   However, he was a little careless in front of goal.  Richie Smallwood did likewise in midfield although he missed a gilt edged opportunity to add a fifth goal.

Joe Rankin-Costello and John Buckley were both excellent and Everton struggled to contain them.

We had a new trialist at right-back - Timi Sobowale from Manchester City.

Cup games are all about getting through to the next round - which we did, but boy did we make hard work of it at the end.