Academy & U21s

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Really glad everyone is starting to see what I’ve been saying about Chapman for a few months now.

Would echo Stuarts reply to this, why would you gain any satisfaction from one of our players who undoubtedly has talent, who plays in an area we have struggled with consistently throughout the last few years, whose time at the club (on a permanent deal) has been a total failure?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would echo Stuarts reply to this, why would you gain any satisfaction from one of our players who undoubtedly has talent, who plays in an area we have struggled with consistently throughout the last few years, whose time at the club (on a permanent deal) has been a total failure?

Because I’ve been berrated for my opinion on him and now I’m not. I’m delighted! Not delighted that Chapman is failing, more than I’m no longer getting a bunch of shit.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

The response by Rovers to the unexpected arrival of at least 50 Hertha fans last night sums up where we are at.

I saw absolutely no trouble from any of them except one bloke who lit a cigarette. They appeared to be good natured fans there for the experience who wanted to stand and sing watching their side play. We should be welcoming these people to Ewood and projecting a good image of Rovers to fans from overseas yet the opposite seems to have happened.

Seems the staff were all set for an easy night at the office with the regular 300 or so home fans causing no problems. Probably no anticipation at all that they would actually travel to watch their team all the way from Germany (note the non footballing mentality - they can't comprehend that fans would want to travel over land and sea to watch an u23 game.

Then the arrival of the Hertha contingent sent them into a tailspin. If standing was such a problem why not just open a differnet area of the ground and put them there?

Then a police escort away from the ground - why? Suppose it gives the cops something to do.

Just embarrassing but I get the impression that Rovers never really wanted the extra hassle of this competition anyway.

 

Maybe because two had already been ejected, one ran onto the pitch, one sat on the players benches for half the game, a female steward was hurt, a 12 year old girl was circled and intimidated... 

They weren’t awful, and if they were just in an away end it wouldn’t have been a big deal - massive fuck up from the club.

[tomphil]

Waggot & Cheston will be distraught this morning when they find out there were more than 50 Hertha fans turned up.

Cat A opportunity missed along with wasting the extra money opening up an entire tier of the DE to accommodate a handful...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Prior to his injuries he was playing in League One.

I don't get your point there Stuart. If anything I thought then he was a bit too keen to run at people then. That's a higher level than the U-23's.

[Stuart]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don't get your point there Stuart. If anything I thought then he was a bit too keen to run at people then. That's a higher level than the U-23's.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the championship since his main injury came between him being with us on loan and going back to Boro. You think that he showed more enthusiasm for the U23s before his more recent injuries? I’m honestly not sure but I see a pattern here...

It appears that Mowbray will dump players back into the U23s if he doesn’t like their attitude - regardless of their performances. Not many seem to recover. Travis did but Tomlinson, Nuttall and now Chapman seem to be going the other way. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Stuart said:

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the championship since his main injury came between him being with us on loan and going back to Boro. You think that he showed more enthusiasm for the U23s before his more recent injuries? I’m honestly not sure but I see a pattern here...

It appears that Mowbray will dump players back into the U23s if he doesn’t like their attitude - regardless of their performances. Not many seem to recover. Travis did but Tomlinson, Nuttall and now Chapman seem to be going the other way. 

I thought he didn't lack enthusiasm when he first got into the team albeit most of the time as a sub. in fact I thought he was bit impetuous to be honest. That was before the serious injury he had. I've not seen anything of him since then.

[Stuart]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I thought he didn't lack enthusiasm when he first got into the team albeit most of the time as a sub. in fact I thought he was bit impetuous to be honest. That was before the serious injury he had. I've not seen anything of him since then.

Ok. That’s why I replied like I did. When he first got into the team we were playing in L1. I expect it’s pretty enthusing when you are up against inferior opposition at a lower level.

[Guest]

I just think Harry Chapman is grinding a lot of people the wrong way. Both JRC and Butterworth could be heard shouting at him during the game, and Billy Barr kept turning around and rolling his eyes at Ben Benson when Chapman lost the ball. 
 

He clearly isn’t making many friends ??‍♂️

[MarkBRFC]

At a guess, Chapman has realised he's dropped a bollock by coming here, and is probably trying to get shipped out in Jan.

[Swanson]

Scott Wharton scored twice for Northampton today.

[Sparks Rover]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just think Harry Chapman is grinding a lot of people the wrong way. Both JRC and Butterworth could be heard shouting at him during the game, and Billy Barr kept turning around and rolling his eyes at Ben Benson when Chapman lost the ball. 
 

He clearly isn’t making many friends ??‍♂️

Or he’s peeved off that he can’t get a sniff at the first team considering they are poor.  Sounds like we have a little clique in the U23s too......is it jobs for the boys in there too. ?

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just think Harry Chapman is grinding a lot of people the wrong way. Both JRC and Butterworth could be heard shouting at him during the game, and Billy Barr kept turning around and rolling his eyes at Ben Benson when Chapman lost the ball. 
 

He clearly isn’t making many friends ??‍♂️

“Dammit Karl!” (for those who get the reference)

Wonder why he subbed Mols rather than Chapman...? Because Mowbray was there?

Young Chappers needs to go on loan along with Brereton, the latter with otherwise probably spend most of his time with us having treatment for regular short term injuries

 

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Or he’s peeved off that he can’t get a sniff at the first team considering they are poor.  Sounds like we have a little clique in the U23s too......is it jobs for the boys in there too. ?

Chapman has been poor all season.  Not good enough for the Under-23s at the moment let alone the first team.

Just now, Stuart said:

“Dammit Karl!” (for those who get the reference)

Wonder why he subbed Mols rather than Chapman...? Because Mowbray was there?

Young Chappers needs to go on loan along with Brereton, the latter with otherwise probably spend most of his time with us having treatment for regular short term injuries

 

I agree - but who'd take them on their present form?

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Chapman has been poor all season.  Not good enough for the Under-23s at the moment let alone the first team.

I agree - but who'd take them on their present form?

There would be League One takers for Chapman and I reckon Brereton would have enough of a reputation from Forest for someone to say “it’s not worked out at Blackburn” but it would likely need to be as part of an exit strategy. I suspect that would be a difficult sell from Mowbray to the owners so we’ll likely persevere like now to keep him on the fringes while his contract runs down. Great way to earn living if you can get it!

[SkipDonoghue]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Or he’s peeved off that he can’t get a sniff at the first team considering they are poor.  Sounds like we have a little clique in the U23s too......is it jobs for the boys in there too. ?

Chapman is showing he isn't happy by his body language but sulking in football will just get you pushed further down the pecking order

I don't think there are any cliques as such more circumstance has led to splits, in the group

in fact the U23s that contained Tomlinson, Hardcastle, Travis, Nuttall JRC, Platt, Butterworth, Mols, Grayson Fisher, Buckley etc was very much that way, if you didn't fit in it was made clear you knew your place and this makes sure there is a pecking order and everyone then knows there place, Hardcastle was captain and he wasn't afraid of bollicking the others when needed during or after games

You will find the 1st team players that play down tend to stick together as do the lads who train with the 1st team and play, for the 23s, so basically at the minute there are 3 groups in the 23s changing room at any one time

This leads to the U23s no longer being a settled team, players come down from the 1st team for game time, you then have players coming back from injury from the 1st team, you also have the players who train with the 1st team every day who are classed more as 23s/1st team squad who come into the side, pushing out lads who train day in day out with the 23s add to this different changing rooms during the week (which has only been implemented this season) you have half in one room and half in another, where as before when the players I mentioned above were there when they won the league they were all together, in one room during the week

I also know there were arguments and even scraps during this time between them, there was a lot of big characters and that carried them through

At the minute Mols is the captain and that is because he is the most experienced player at this level nothing more and due to injuries to Doyle and Grayson bar JRC, who is with the 1st team every day so he isn't considered for the arm band due to not being around these players day in day out,

Mols isn't a Hardcastle far from it and the characters aren't there at the minute, add to this a change of coach with different ideas, a new batch of young players pushing on and is it any surprise performances and games have been disjointed

Losing Grayson and Doyle from the heart of the defense hasn't helped as the players coming in aren't at that standard or experience yet

Take the last 3 games for example Everton (LSC) 1st half unplayable 2nd half a considerable drop in levels nearly let Everton back in

Middlesbrough (PLC) 1st half shocking lucky to go in 1-0 down, 2nd half back in it and a far better level of performance and win

Hertha (PLIC) 1st half comfortable unlucky not to be ahead at half time 2nd half absolutely shocking ending in loss

The contrast and inconsistency is there for all to see, the constant changing of players in and out it doesn't allow for the 23s to build momentum as a team, as was the case previously IMO we will see a lot more of these performances as the season wears on, sometimes the 23s are training with 5 players as there isn't enough 23s as such, that can't be good for moral or consistency within this group and this is why it's folly to judge any player on the odd game,

Mowbray hit the nail on the head when he said he judges players more in training than playing for u23s and I can see why, don't get me wrong it's nice to see the 23s rip it up but a narrow defeat isn't the be all and end all when it comes to certain players especially as circumstances don't lend to providing that consistent environment which is sometimes needed

 

[Sparks Rover]

Mols is probably captain because he’s the best. In my opinion

[K-Hod]

11 hours ago, JoeH said:

I just think Harry Chapman is grinding a lot of people the wrong way. Both JRC and Butterworth could be heard shouting at him during the game, and Billy Barr kept turning around and rolling his eyes at Ben Benson when Chapman lost the ball. 
 

He clearly isn’t making many friends ??‍♂️

So, just so we are clear, do you not rate Harry Chapman?

Edited November 17, 2019 by K-Hod

[Mattyblue]

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Because I’ve been berrated for my opinion on him and now I’m not. I’m delighted! Not delighted that Chapman is failing, more than I’m no longer getting a bunch of shit.

How old are you, 12?

[JamieUK]

First time at an U23s game but have been to the cup games (checkatrade?) when the young lads were involved.

Seeing the line up there were 8 players I was aware of/seen before - Hilton, Barnes, JRC, Mols, Davenport, Chapman, Butterworth & Samuel. Keen eye on those but for me it was the right back who impressed most. He was talked through the first half a lot by the manager but I thought he did very well. Opposite sides but reminded me of Jay McEveley when he came into the first team at 17. No idea of his age (or name - Isaac something?) but looked full of promise.

I thought Hilton looked decent - should have been given a chance in the league cup. Seemed to have good kicking ability.

Harry Chapman. Sink or swim time. He clearly can't motivate himself at that level. He's got talent - give him a chance in the first team, if that fails I think it's best for all that he moves on. Shame because with the right management he'd be a multimillion pound player.

Davenport - kept it simple, similar type of player to Evans - can we bin Evans and stick him on the bench please.

Poor performance but saw enough ability in fits and bursts that some of them would do no worse than the regulars in the first XI. Shame they won't get a chance given the size of the bloated squad.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Mols is probably captain because he’s the best. In my opinion

Think he was shocking last night - IMO, showed absolutely nothing.

[Mercer]

38 minutes ago, JamieUK said:

First time at an U23s game but have been to the cup games (checkatrade?) when the young lads were involved.

Seeing the line up there were 8 players I was aware of/seen before - Hilton, Barnes, JRC, Mols, Davenport, Chapman, Butterworth & Samuel. Keen eye on those but for me it was the right back who impressed most. He was talked through the first half a lot by the manager but I thought he did very well. Opposite sides but reminded me of Jay McEveley when he came into the first team at 17. No idea of his age (or name - Isaac something?) but looked full of promise.

I thought Hilton looked decent - should have been given a chance in the league cup. Seemed to have good kicking ability.

Harry Chapman. Sink or swim time. He clearly can't motivate himself at that level. He's got talent - give him a chance in the first team, if that fails I think it's best for all that he moves on. Shame because with the right management he'd be a multimillion pound player.

Davenport - kept it simple, similar type of player to Evans - can we bin Evans and stick him on the bench please.

Poor performance but saw enough ability in fits and bursts that some of them would do no worse than the regulars in the first XI. Shame they won't get a chance given the size of the bloated squad.

Chapman - got no service last night and looked p1ssed off by it all.  However, I do think the lad has a spark and talent.  In last ten minutes, twice beat a man in a crowded box and almost created something from nothing.  With the right management, we might just have a player - needs a run in the first team and I don't just mean ten minutes here and ten minutes there.  Give him 3 or 4 starts.  IMO, the lad is far more talented than Armstrong - think it all boils down to who likes Mrs Mowbray's lemon drizzle cake. 

Davenport - other than one good forward run, IMO, offered virtually nothing.  The lad is almost 21 and past the stage of a 'promising youngster'.  IMO, if they aint showing at that age, it's very unlikely they will.  Someone mentioned Jay McEveley in an ealier post who debuted in the PL for us at 17!!! 

IMO, JRC, Butterworth and Davenport, all turned 20, are not Championship material and never will be.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Davenport - other than one good forward run, IMO, offered virtually nothing.  The lad is almost 21 and past the stage of a 'promising youngster'.  IMO, if they aint showing at that age, it's very unlikely they will.  Someone mentioned Jay McEveley in an ealier post who debuted in the PL for us at 17!!! 

Yes, and then, after a promising start with us, turned out to be pretty shit and never carved out a career in the top flight.

Then you have players like Vardy and Wright who didn't pull up any trees until relatively late in their careers but went right to the top.

It's incredibly hard to judge u23 players for their first team potential. But even harder if you never give them a chance/run in it.

[Oldgregg86]

It’s an absolute no brainier that Evans needs moving on and davenport could easily fill that slot.

i personally think davenport is a better all round player than Evans with the added bonus of potential and would like to see him anchor the midfield and give travis a bit more liscence to roam forward. If I was the manager that would be the first change I would make and let them build an understanding and proper partnership. Especially whilst this season is virtually over.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[Stuart]

9 hours ago, Mercer said:

Think he was shocking last night - IMO, showed absolutely nothing.

Good spells in the first half but I don’t thing any of them played to their best and they didn’t play like a team. Butterworth was also quiet by his standards.

I’m not a fan of Mols being played in the middle though. Presumably to accommodate Chapman in the side.