Academy & U21s

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

14 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I think he is still recovering from injury - Grayson (long term), Doyle, and Annesley are also out at the moment

Given the number of long and medium injuries we seemed to have been plagued with for years it makes you wonder whats going on in the treatment room ?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mercer]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Given the number of long and medium injuries we seemed to have been plagued with for years it makes you wonder whats going on in the treatment room ?

Think we once had a half decent forward thinking set up led by Batty and Fevre (both recruited from Manchester United).

IMO, like all aspects of the club, physio / sports science department has been dumbed down.

After 20+ years with their own club doctor, Rovers no longer seem to employ their own doctor and now have a local Whalley GP as a 'consultant'.  Cost saving or an unnecessary expense on a cost / value basis, who knows!?

One thing is for sure, we have close to 10 folk employed as / in consultant / therapists / athletic performance / physio / masseuse and we are, IMO, one of the least unfit (both physically and mentally) teams around who seem to suffer more than their fair share of injuries.  IMO, that set up needs looking at.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Mercer

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Think we once had a half decent forward thinking set up led by Batty and Fevre (both recruited from Manchester United).

IMO, like all aspects of the club, physio / sports science department has been dumbed down.

After 20+ years with their own club doctor, Rovers no longer seem to employ their own doctor and now have a local Whalley GP as a 'consultant'.  Cost saving or an unnecessary expense on a cost / value basis, who knows!?

One thing is for sure, we have close to 10 folk employed as / in consultant / therapists / athletic performance / physio / masseuse and we are, IMO, one of the least unfit (both physically and mentally) teams around who seem to suffer more than their fair share of injuries.  IMO, that aset up needs looking at.

That's a crazy way of looking after their " Investments ". It's like having an Aston Martin and not bothering to top the engine oil up.

[Guest]

On 16/11/2019 at 21:26, Mattyblue said:

 How old are you, 12?

My content at no longer being constantly berated for my opinions on Harry Chapman isn't really something I can get my head around you having an issue with, yet here we are and you somehow have.

I can assure you that resorting to comments like this makes you look a child in my eyes, which is quite ironic and clearly very unnecessary for a general debate and discussion about a football player at the football club we BOTH support. 

Grow up a little. "Attack the viewpoint and not the person" and all that...

[Mattyblue]

Have a read of your post again and have a think, as if you honestly don’t think you often come across as juvenile then there’s not a lot else to be said.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Mattyblue

[RV Blue]

Pretty sure I heard Butterworth’s dad shout ‘get him off!’ when Chapman miscontrolled the ball on Friday, classy.

[Stuart]

Chappers, JRC and Davenport playing tonight. No DomSam so probably on the bench tomorrow.

[Stuart]

Pretty quiet first half. 0-0.

Chapman hit the side netting from a free kick on the edge of the box. City have largely played on the break. Been decent from Rovers but just the game is just missing a goal to bring it to life.

Quite a good turnout though.

“You’re only here cos it’s city!”  

[Stuart]

1-0 City

Absolute bedlam from the plastic-Manc nobbers in the stand.

“Scenes”

Edited November 22, 2019 by Stuart

[Stuart]

Just had to check the team sheet to confirm but contrary to popular opinion here in deepest Leyland this is not actually the FA Cup Final.

[Stuart]

2-0 on the break after Rovers missed a great chance to level.

[Riverside under the drip]

What struck me most about this game was the pedestrian nature of our play and the almost total lack of shots. What does that remind you of?!

City constantly moved about so as to receive the ball in space. We passed it tight along the line and hoped the ball got through the defender's legs, invariably ending up stood still trying to prevent a throw-in. I lost count of the amount of times our player took a touch into what he thought was space but a City midfielder ran in and stole it.

Overall, a team of average to poor quality players who should not trouble the first team any time soon.

[JHRover]

Another dire performance from the u23s. Very few positives to take against a City side who have struggled this season yet played us off the park.

Most worrying for me is the striking similarities in 'style' of play with the first team. Seems to me that the Mowbray 'philosophy' is entrenched in the u23s too. Sideways and backwards passing, no end product. Rubbish.

[Guest]

City not even a good team at this level. DB growing more and more frustrated with his team mates and for me starting to show some of the unattractive HC traits which I’ve discussed, week on week.

[Parsonblue]

Another dreadful performance from the Under-23s.  Stagnation has well and truly set in.  Sadly, it's something we've seen all too often over more years than I care to remember.  Talented lads hang around in the reserves for far too long and then start to go backwards rapidly before being released.  These lads need to get out on loan in January and not hang around waiting for an odd game sitting on the bench at first team level.  Lads like Butterworth, Rankin-Costello, Mols are too good to stay at this level they need to step up and show they can do it in senior football which, in the long run, will be more beneficial to them.  As for Chapman - who'd want him on loan - another awful night for a lad who seems to have seriously lost his appetite for the game.  

As JH Rover said, it's like watching the first team at the moment - far too much sideways and backwards passing with no end product.  The fast flowing football we used to play at this level has disappeared.  Terrible stuff to watch at the moment.  City looked in a different class at times last night considering their indifferent results this season.  They were quick, direct and played with a purpose - they were everything we are not at the moment.

[Stuart]

39 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Another dreadful performance from the Under-23s.  Stagnation has well and truly set in.  Sadly, it's something we've seen all too often over more years than I care to remember.  Talented lads hang around in the reserves for far too long and then start to go backwards rapidly before being released.  These lads need to get out on loan in January and not hang around waiting for an odd game sitting on the bench at first team level.  Lads like Butterworth, Rankin-Costello, Mols are too good to stay at this level they need to step up and show they can do it in senior football which, in the long run, will be more beneficial to them.  As for Chapman - who'd want him on loan - another awful night for a lad who seems to have seriously lost his appetite for the game.  

As JH Rover said, it's like watching the first team at the moment - far too much sideways and backwards passing with no end product.  The fast flowing football we used to play at this level has disappeared.  Terrible stuff to watch at the moment.  City looked in a different class at times last night considering their indifferent results this season.  They were quick, direct and played with a purpose - they were everything we are not at the moment.

I’ll bow to your great experience of this youth cycle but in my view this is very much down to Mowbray. Blocking the path for youngsters, not getting the right loan opportunities or early enough for those who need it. Johnson moving on and Billy Barr coming in has just made this even worse and the spectacle of the football match itself is fading rapidly.

Right now we have the U23s more aligned than it has been to the philosophy of the first team. In theory this is correct but when the first team philosophy is wrong and we’ve now gone backwards at development level. It can also mean relegation and poorer opposition/development. The first team and U23s were promoted together in a surge of momentum and have now stagnated together. A change is needed at the top.

On to the game...

I thought the first half was drab but Rovers looked marginally the better side with City playing on the break. Second half we quickly went to pieces. The second game in a week where we have had vocal opposition fans in delight. It was pretty embarrassing to be fair just how OTT the celebrations were on and off the pitch.

Chapman is definitely the odd man out, Mols is not a centre midfielder and Butterworth is looking a more frustrated man with each passing game.

I left before the third goal, it was that bad.

[DE.]

So are we saying TM promoting Johnson to a first team role at the club has effectively ruined our u23's whilst bringing no obvious benefit to our first team?

[Parsonblue]

Just now, DE. said:

So are we saying TM promoting Johnson to a first team role at the club has effectively ruined our u23's whilst bringing no obvious benefit to our first team?

No.  There is a point in every young player's development where he needs to be challenged at a higher level than reserve team football.  This has happened under every manager, particularly since the advent of the Premier League.  It happened a lot under Mark Hughes who always preferred to have an experienced player as a backup rather than a youngster.

There comes a point when you stop learning playing reserve football and start to stagnate. 

Players like Buckley, Travis, Nyambe and Lenihan, for example, have been given chances at senior level and are now beyond reserve football.  Rankin-Costello, Butterworth and Mols are sort of trapped in a limbo - not gaining anything from under-23 football but not able to get opportunities with the senior team.  For their own good I feel they need to move out on loan to help with their development - rather like Wharton at Northampton.

At the moment a number of the lads are training with the seniors and then join up with the Under-23s for matches so I suppose it's understandable that the fluency is fast disappearing from their play.

[DE.]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

No.  There is a point in every young player's development where he needs to be challenged at a higher level than reserve team football.  This has happened under every manager, particularly since the advent of the Premier League.  It happened a lot under Mark Hughes who always preferred to have an experienced player as a backup rather than a youngster.

There comes a point when you stop learning playing reserve football and start to stagnate. 

Players like Buckley, Travis, Nyambe and Lenihan, for example, have been given chances at senior level and are now beyond reserve football.  Rankin-Costello, Butterworth and Mols are sort of trapped in a limbo - not gaining anything from under-23 football but not able to get opportunities with the senior team.  For their own good I feel they need to move out on loan to help with their development - rather like Wharton at Northampton.

At the moment a number of the lads are training with the seniors and then join up with the Under-23s for matches so I suppose it's understandable that the fluency is fast disappearing from their play.

Yeah of course - but were we playing "the Mowbray way" when Johnson was in charge, or is that something that's changed from last season?

[arbitro]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

No.  There is a point in every young player's development where he needs to be challenged at a higher level than reserve team football.  This has happened under every manager, particularly since the advent of the Premier League.  It happened a lot under Mark Hughes who always preferred to have an experienced player as a backup rather than a youngster.

There comes a point when you stop learning playing reserve football and start to stagnate. 

Players like Buckley, Travis, Nyambe and Lenihan, for example, have been given chances at senior level and are now beyond reserve football.  Rankin-Costello, Butterworth and Mols are sort of trapped in a limbo - not gaining anything from under-23 football but not able to get opportunities with the senior team.  For their own good I feel they need to move out on loan to help with their development - rather like Wharton at Northampton.

At the moment a number of the lads are training with the seniors and then join up with the Under-23s for matches so I suppose it's understandable that the fluency is fast disappearing from their play.

Moving the debate on I agree with you but the abolition of proper reserve team football has had a hand in this. Before the under 23's there was a perfectly good system that gave games to players who couldn't get into the first team, players coming back from injury and promising youngsters. For the youngsters in particular they could be up against international players and seasoned professionals. Quite simply I do don't believe players are challenged enough by this standard of football.

I refereed in the old Pontins League and the top teams always had experienced players on the pitch. Players with lots of medals and honours were happy to play to get back into the first team. They did the hard yards, tackled and wanted to win. For many academy graduates now it's a mindset and they simply being paid decent money to effectively makeup the numbers in training.

[tomphil]

I don't think there is anything wrong with have a certain playing style or philosophy running right through a club. It makes sense and something we've lacked in the past iv'e thought from the bits iv'e watched down the years.

However it has to be the right style, the first team and U23's should be playing the Johnson way not this new crap TM seems to be foisting on all areas of the club. Going nowhere football gets you precisely that, it seems him, Venus and whoever else have been over there and sold them a dose of bollocks about this. 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Yeah of course - but were we playing "the Mowbray way" when Johnson was in charge, or is that something that's changed from last season?

Johnson’s success was absolutely NOT through playing the Mowbray way. Quite the opposite.

We seem to be back to the ‘ebb and flow’ argument for some whilst ignoring the short term changes that are bringing about these shift in phases.

No matter what evidence there are some people who will continue to blame individuals and circumstances (inferred as being natural) rather than accept that there is an insidious malaise as a result of poor planning and poor decision making. Why remove Johnson, advertise for a replacement and then employ the bloke already at the club? He wasn’t the best option but he was almost certainly the cheapest. A recurring theme.

[bluebruce]

11 hours ago, JoeH said:

City not even a good team at this level. DB growing more and more frustrated with his team mates and for me starting to show some of the unattractive HC traits which I’ve discussed, week on week.

Fucking hell, when I read about Butterworth getting into trouble in the game, I just knew I was going to see you in here bringing it back to Chapman. Wish the bookies had given odds!

To be clear here though, are you saying it is HC's fault that DB has decided to be petulant?

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Yeah of course - but were we playing "the Mowbray way" when Johnson was in charge, or is that something that's changed from last season?

I'm wondering if it's the players themselves who have started to realise that TM will only pick players who play a certain way, so they're adjusting their style accordingly.

I expect there was quite a bit of excitement from the better u-23s this summer when TM was talking about some of them breaking through. It has since become apparent that, despite the first team being woeful, only Buckley is breaking through. This will have also dampened their spirits considerably as they realise there is far too much competition in the midfield and attack, who Tony prefers and needs to justify.

Edited November 23, 2019 by bluebruce

[Guest]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Fucking hell, when I read about Butterworth getting into trouble in the game, I just knew I was going to see you in here bringing it back to Chapman. Wish the bookies had given odds!

To be clear here though, are you saying it is HC's fault that DB has decided to be petulant?

Dan Butterworth showed some unattractive traits that I’ve seen in Harry Chapman. I didn’t say once it was his fault for it. How pathetic. Try and actually read what I put and don’t be dense/read WAYYYYYY to fat into things.