Academy & U21s

[roversfan99]

Just now, bluebruce said:

It's not true that JRC hasn't made any impact in any of his games. I forget the opposition, feel like it was Sheff W, but he came on and set a goal up directly, had a hand in another, and looked good. Not hit those heights since though but has looked better than you're giving him credit for.

To be honest I was thinking of the starts back to back v Boro and I think Fulham at home. In both games he was totally ineffective and practically invisible, he couldnt get into either game, he seemed a little ponderous and overawed when he did get the ball.

To be fair I forgot about the Sheffield Wednesday game. Whilst obviously he came on at I think 4 up v 10 men, I would say that his pass for the final goal was very good. For me that is the sole thing to cling on to during his very brief gametime to date.

For the record I am not saying Buckley and JRC will not make it or anything like that. Just that they have certainly not proved themselves at this stage. Buckley impressed me away at Charlton as a 10 after repeatedly looking a million miles off on his appearences prior.

[LeftWinger]

9 hours ago, bluebruce said:

It's not true that JRC hasn't made any impact in any of his games. I forget the opposition, feel like it was Sheff W, but he came on and set a goal up directly, had a hand in another, and looked good. Not hit those heights since though but has looked better than you're giving him credit for.

We were 4-0 up when he came on against Wednesday and scored 1 more goal.

He came on against Sheffield United when we were 2-0 down and we scored once.

Other than that, we've only scored 1 more goal when he's been on the pitch.

My point being he can't have set up a goal and hand in another - as we've never scored twice in a game with him on the pitch.

I've not been impressed at all by him personally. I remember the Fulham game where he was completely ineffectual, playing in the number 10 role. Worse than that, he didn't seem to put himself about much or get stuck in, which you'd usually expect from someone who has been involved in the youth set up since he was about 14 (I think that was roughly the age when he joined us).

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

We were 4-0 up when he came on against Wednesday and scored 1 more goal.

He came on against Sheffield United when we were 2-0 down and we scored once.

Other than that, we've only scored 1 more goal when he's been on the pitch.

My point being he can't have set up a goal and hand in another - as we've never scored twice in a game with him on the pitch.

I've not been impressed at all by him personally. I remember the Fulham game where he was completely ineffectual, playing in the number 10 role. Worse than that, he didn't seem to put himself about much or get stuck in, which you'd usually expect from someone who has been involved in the youth set up since he was about 14 (I think that was roughly the age when he joined us).

He seemed totally overawed and nothing in his game stood out, technical ability, pace etc. To be fair it was only 2 starts so plenty of time yet.

[chaddyrovers]

Very judgemental there. 

Get them a proper chance

[roversfan99]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Very judgemental there. 

Get them a proper chance

How on earth is it "judgemental" to state a fair opinion that a player did not have an impact on 2 games he started on?! He didnt!

If I had said "he doesnt deserve any more chances" "he will never be good enough" etc then youd have a point but I quite clearly stated that theres plenty of time for him yet.

If we are at a situation where you cannot point out when a player has no impact on a game then we really are in a sticky situation.

[bluebruce]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

We were 4-0 up when he came on against Wednesday and scored 1 more goal.

He came on against Sheffield United when we were 2-0 down and we scored once.

Other than that, we've only scored 1 more goal when he's been on the pitch.

My point being he can't have set up a goal and hand in another - as we've never scored twice in a game with him on the pitch.

I've not been impressed at all by him personally. I remember the Fulham game where he was completely ineffectual, playing in the number 10 role. Worse than that, he didn't seem to put himself about much or get stuck in, which you'd usually expect from someone who has been involved in the youth set up since he was about 14 (I think that was roughly the age when he joined us).

Go to about 6 minutes. It wasn't an actual goal I was remembering, you're right there, it was a couple of contributions including a fine pass, for a goalscoring opportunity.

[ben_the_beast]

Thing is with JRC I'm not sure anyone really knows what his natural position is. He seems technically decent and pretty tall. Still too small in frame for centre mid, not enough creativity for attacking mid and not enough pace for the wing. Sounds damming. He looks alright. But just no idea where he fits in

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Thing is with JRC I'm not sure anyone really knows what his natural position is. He seems technically decent and pretty tall. Still too small in frame for centre mid, not enough creativity for attacking mid and not enough pace for the wing. Sounds damming. He looks alright. But just no idea where he fits in

He played the wing or wing backs for under 18's and 23's. 

I would start him on the right wing in 1st game

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ben_the_beast said:

not enough creativity for attacking mid

Must be joking. Scores goals for fun at youth level, and sets them up too. A much better attacker than you're giving him credit for. See his goal against Burnley a few years back at Ewood Park in a youth game!

[ben_the_beast]

11 hours ago, JoeH said:

Must be joking. Scores goals for fun at youth level, and sets them up too. A much better attacker than you're giving him credit for. See his goal against Burnley a few years back at Ewood Park in a youth game!

I've certainly seen limited creativity from him this far. Doesn't look like he can play between the lines like Buckley. Doesn't look like he can run at people like Butterworth. I think that is a pretty fair analogy. I'm not saying he's rubbish. Just that his stand out attributes arent that obvious yet and I'm not sure he knows his best position. Rather seems a Jack of all right now

[Mattyblue]

U23 football isn’t any kind of barometer. Glorified training matches against players coming back from injury operating at half pace, de-motivated first teamers and some young lads that just won’t make it and are passing time until they are released.

Doesn’t mean you can’t pull diamonds out of there, look at Travis, but you can only judge them from what you see in the first team. So give JRC a run of games, but it’s fair enough to say apart from the cameo against Sheff Wed who were a well beaten 10 men by the time he came on, he hasn’t looked particularly impressive.
 

And that’s fine and to be expected for many young lads, by the way, Travis has come on leaps and bounds with first team experience.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Admiral Nelsen]

19 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

Thing is with JRC I'm not sure anyone really knows what his natural position is. He seems technically decent and pretty tall. Still too small in frame for centre mid, not enough creativity for attacking mid and not enough pace for the wing. Sounds damming. He looks alright. But just no idea where he fits in

Agree that his best position doesn't appear obvious, but I wouldn't say that's because it looks particularly unsuited to playing in various positions. He reminds me a bit of Ben Marshall in his versatility & seeming lack of pace, but the only thing stopping Marshall being a brilliant player was his head. 

The fact that he's been tried in so many positions should, if anything, just be taken as a sign of his natural talent in my view. Not too dissimilar to Bentley, he might be a few seasons into his career before he really nails down a position. 

[ben_the_beast]

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Agree that his best position doesn't appear obvious, but I wouldn't say that's because it looks particularly unsuited to playing in various positions. He reminds me a bit of Ben Marshall in his versatility & seeming lack of pace, but the only thing stopping Marshall being a brilliant player was his head. 

The fact that he's been tried in so many positions should, if anything, just be taken as a sign of his natural talent in my view. Not too dissimilar to Bentley, he might be a few seasons into his career before he really nails down a position. 

Agreed. I think a few others took me saying that he doesn't look like he has a natural position nailed as me saying he wasnt very good. He seems technically decent. But just needs to begin to specialize in a certain area

[Guest]

On 12/06/2020 at 16:31, ben_the_beast said:

But just needs to begin to specialize in a certain area

I don't think versatility has to be a poor trait though. A player like Downing who you can drop into any position on the pitch bar centre-back is never a bad thing to have. He's 35. At least if JRC can maintain that well-rounded play style into his prime years we'd have a player who can follow suit.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I don't think versatility has to be a poor trait though. A player like Downing who you can drop into any position on the pitch bar centre-back is never a bad thing to have. He's 35. At least if JRC can maintain that well-rounded play style into his prime years we'd have a player who can follow suit.

Downing is a proven premier league player though.....international too. In his prime he wasn't shunted into loads of different positions. Good players in their later years generally adopt this trait.

[Guest]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Good players in their later years generally adopt this trait.

Exactly. It's extremely rare to have a younger player who mananges to maintain pure versatility throughout his prime twenties. If JRC can manage that then I'd be delighted. Having a player that can successful slot into lots of places is always beneficial, especially if they're actually decent unlike Tony Mowbray's idea of that kind of player in Elliott Bennett.

[Sparks Rover]

49 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Exactly. It's extremely rare to have a younger player who mananges to maintain pure versatility throughout his prime twenties. If JRC can manage that then I'd be delighted. .

He won't play much if he doesn't nail a position down. From what I've seen he's nothing more than average anyway

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Exactly. It's extremely rare to have a younger player who mananges to maintain pure versatility throughout his prime twenties. If JRC can manage that then I'd be delighted. Having a player that can successful slot into lots of places is always beneficial, especially if they're actually decent unlike Tony Mowbray's idea of that kind of player in Elliott Bennett.

When young players do it, they usually end up being unable to nail down a regular berth because they're just fill-in utility players in a crisis.

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

He won't play much if he doesn't nail a position down. From what I've seen he's nothing more than average anyway

From some of the performances so far from some players I'll take average all day long

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

From what I've seen he's nothing more than average anyway

I respectfully disagree, I really hope he proves you wrong, as I'm sure you do too.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I respectfully disagree, I really hope he proves you wrong, as I'm sure you do too.

Out of interest, and apologies if youve already said, but what did you make of his limited appearances in the first team, which is the real acid test rather than in the reserves where of course its impossible to replicate that same standard or competitive edge.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

but what did you make of his limited appearances in the first team

He was poor at Boro, pretty average everywhere else.

The ball for Gallagher at Sheffield Wednesday though is the type of pass only Downing or Dack would usually be producing in the first team. 

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He was poor at Boro, pretty average everywhere else.

The ball for Gallagher at Sheffield Wednesday though is the type of pass only Downing or Dack would usually be producing in the first team. 

Was totally ineffective in his other start v Fulham too. Looked overawed whenever he got the ball.

[chaddyrovers]

Has to do a job against Fulham that doesn't suit his game. 

Did well at Sheffield Wednesday. 

Did ok at Boro. Defensive wise did his job. Attacking wise never got going but neither did the team. 

[roversfan99]

You might query his position etc but ultimately he made zero attacking contribution in either start which as an attacking player is ok to point out. Im sure he tried his best and worked hard but just as its right to acknowledge a good pass at Hillsbrough, its ok to acknowledge the lack of impact in his two starts without pretending otherwise and equally its not negative or not giving him a chance to do so. Hopefully he will do something when his next start comes about.