Academy & U21s

[Angry_Pirate]

18 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Whitehall looks really good in the centre . Calm on ball strong and quick.

For those who watch alot of the u23 is he normally this good

He was head and shoulders the highest rated last season down at the Academy - First one to get a pro deal - and the only one to get multiple years.

We've just been made more aware of Eastham, Pike and Brennan due to limitations at those positions. (Pre Kaminski, Elliott, etc)

Not certain if they have figured out if they see Isaac as a defender or midfielder yet. He's played CDM, CM, CB and even RB and LB this past year.

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

He was head and shoulders the highest rated last season down at the Academy - First one to get a pro deal - and the only one to get multiple years.

We've just been made more aware of Eastham, Pike and Brennan due to limitations at those positions. (Pre Kaminski, Elliott, etc)

Not certain if they have figured out if they see Isaac as a defender or midfielder yet. He's played CDM, CM, CB and even RB and LB this past year.

CB, LB and RB (cover anyway) have been areas of serious limitation though. I've mostly heard of him as a CB and LB.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I think the plan is to cover home games at Leyland and stream them live.

Well look forward to watching it

19 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Really good first half from the young lads.

First time I've watched this season and Whitehall looks really good in the centre . Calm on ball strong and quick.

For those who watch alot of the u23 is he normally this good

He is very good young player. Hopefully he makes his debut for first team in 18 months

[Angry_Pirate]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

CB, LB and RB (cover anyway) have been areas of serious limitation though. I've mostly heard of him as a CB and LB.

He sees himself as a CDM/CM 🤣

[Rochdale_rover]

2 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

He sees himself as a CDM/CM 🤣

He looks built for that role. Suprised he's only 18 . Will have to keep an eye on his progress. 

Do you think he has a chance of breaking through ? 

And what are your thoughts on pike

[Angry_Pirate]

I think *they* think he has a chance.

With Johnson, Trybull, Evans, Downing, Bennett all likely gone within the next 18 months, we only have Travis for that role. Perhaps he could find his way.

Pike is very deserving of his opportunity, my personal favourite from the group. Will he ever eclipse or replace Nyambe though, I'm not sure.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Pike is very deserving of his opportunity, my personal favourite from the group. Will he ever eclipse or replace Nyambe though, I'm not sure.

Is he more of a defender or wing-back type who can cross it and get forward?

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

He sees himself as a CDM/CM 🤣

Well we have nine million of those, I'd suggest he starts seeing himself as a defender!

[briansol]

22 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

He looks built for that role. Suprised he's only 18 . Will have to keep an eye on his progress. 

Do you think he has a chance of breaking through ? 

And what are your thoughts on pike

Agreed, he has a hint of a young Gerrard. Mobile, powerful, good decision-making. Was also very impressed when he played right back, powerful runs and looked pretty fast as well.

[briansol]

On 26/01/2021 at 15:13, bluebruce said:

CB, LB and RB (cover anyway) have been areas of serious limitation though. I've mostly heard of him as a CB and LB.

Not sure if he has played left-back. Are you thinking of Jake Garrett? He is quite similar but has played a lot of left back, and in the centre. Very highly rated and I think he has captained England as well, which is quite rare for a Blackburn player.  Still only 17, has featured for the U23 but will probably be a regular feature next season.

There is a raft on talent when it comes to centre-backs, which makes it important to get the likes of Carter and Magloire out on loan so the younger ones can progress on U23 level. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by briansol

[briansol]

 

22 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

He looks built for that role. Suprised he's only 18 . Will have to keep an eye on his progress. 

Do you think he has a chance of breaking through ? 

And what are your thoughts on pike

I think Whitehall has a very good chance. Could feature next season, or probably benefit greatly on a loan. Quite similar as a player to Ben Godfrey who had a great season on loan at Shrewsbury when we were in League One, and kicked on from there.

I really like Pike who has all the tools for a right back. Can defend and get forward. Commited and energetic. Mowbray has praised him already and made the bench recently.  One who I'm certain will have a have a professional career. 

[Rochdale_rover]

Thats really promising to hear . 

Who else should we look out for with a chance of coming though

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Rochdale_rover

[briansol]

26 minutes ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Thats really promising to hear . 

Who else should we look out for with a chance of coming though

 

 

 

I really like Jack Vale as a player. Made his debut for the senior team towards in end of the last season, and was expected to be more involved this season. Very unfortunate to pick up an injury in pre-season which kept him out for months.Is just back and has played the last two games for the U23. 

Still only 19, he is a well rounded forward/striker who is intelligent, pretty quick, can take on players, run with the ball and decent hold-up play as well. Weakness is probably that he is not prolific enough. Probably more of a Brereton type than Armstrong, but has a lot more awareness than Brereton. I'd also like to see how adapt physically in senior football. Good hold-up play in U23 games against 5'11 boys, are not the same as seniors. Another candidate for loan, who have or soon will have outgrow U23 level. 

The impressing thing with the current U23 is that almost any of them could become a player. Unlike earlier batches, there are very few who just makes up the numbers. Hayden Carter is an example that never stood out, but was always solid and dependable in a number of positions. Suddenly he is playing for the first team and now a regular starter in League One for Burton. Buckley was another who was a bit part player who kicked on and became a midfield maestro and outgrew that level within a season. Loved watching him in the U23, and a bit suprised that he has struggled that much physically to impose himself, but probably evidence of the difference.

Butterworth is such a sad case with his injuries. Far too good for U23 and would've been regularly involved for the senior team, but sounds now that there some reoccurence of the back injury that kept him out for the whole of last season.

 

 

[ben_the_beast]

On 26/01/2021 at 09:59, roversfan99 said:

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-injuries-butterworth-bennett-19699737.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Butterworth out for another while. Dont think hes got any chance of making it with his constant injuries.

Really disappointing for the lad. The fact it is a back injury again raises the concern about it too.

[roversfan99]

What is slightly concerning is that we seem to regularly be winning games at under 23 level but there doesnt seem to be much in the way of tangible graduates since Travis to really convince in the first team for such a successful team against other kids. 

I look at those who have come through, Rankin Costello is the closest it seems but even beyond his proneness to injury, he hasnt convinced me beyond being a versatile squad member, not a natural full back and hasnt yet shown spark or stand out features further forward. Buckley apparently stood out at that level but looks a million miles away. Thompson and Pike werent considered when we had no senior options in their positions. Carter and Magloire looks well off in their fleeting appearances, the hope would be to replicate Whartons trajectory (minus injury) with loan spells but the latter being in non league isnt convincing. Mols could barely get a game in the Spanish 4th (I think?) tier and Vale and Butterworth have managed roughly 90 senior minutes between them and seem again very injury prone, especially Butterworth.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What is slightly concerning is that we seem to regularly be winning games at under 23 level but there doesnt seem to be much in the way of tangible graduates since Travis to really convince in the first team for such a successful team against other kids. 

I look at those who have come through, Rankin Costello is the closest it seems but even beyond his proneness to injury, he hasnt convinced me beyond being a versatile squad member, not a natural full back and hasnt yet shown spark or stand out features further forward. Buckley apparently stood out at that level but looks a million miles away. Thompson and Pike werent considered when we had no senior options in their positions. Carter and Magloire looks well off in their fleeting appearances, the hope would be to replicate Whartons trajectory (minus injury) with loan spells but the latter being in non league isnt convincing. Mols could barely get a game in the Spanish 4th (I think?) tier and Vale and Butterworth have managed roughly 90 senior minutes between them and seem again very injury prone, especially Butterworth.

 

It seems like there is far too big a gap between under 23 football and the senior team. It's rare a player comes straight from the U23s and starts commanding a first team place, at Rovers this is the case anyway. Yet you have someone like Elliott then who just bypasses it all at 16/17. I think the media scrutiny comes into it and it's mental for players and managers are perhaps too cautious. Cos as you say, the under 23s always seem to be seriously punching above their weight. It's an interesting question, what is the gap and ultimately,is it worth having one? It feels important to me to have one. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What is slightly concerning is that we seem to regularly be winning games at under 23 level but there doesnt seem to be much in the way of tangible graduates since Travis to really convince in the first team for such a successful team against other kids. 

I look at those who have come through, Rankin Costello is the closest it seems but even beyond his proneness to injury, he hasnt convinced me beyond being a versatile squad member, not a natural full back and hasnt yet shown spark or stand out features further forward. Buckley apparently stood out at that level but looks a million miles away. Thompson and Pike werent considered when we had no senior options in their positions. Carter and Magloire looks well off in their fleeting appearances, the hope would be to replicate Whartons trajectory (minus injury) with loan spells but the latter being in non league isnt convincing. Mols could barely get a game in the Spanish 4th (I think?) tier and Vale and Butterworth have managed roughly 90 senior minutes between them and seem again very injury prone, especially Butterworth.

 

Of all the things to criticise, the Academy is the least deserving. On a good day we'd have 5 or 6 graduates in the first team. Very few teams in the top 4 Divisions can better that. For a Championship side it is an excellent achievement and reflects well on the work done at youth level. 

The current crop aren't all going to come through together, but Pike, Vale, Carter and Butterworth (if ever fit) look like being the next bunch to break through. Find me another club with that kind of success rate. I find your 'concern' very strange. Some clubs struggle to get more than 1 or 2 Academy graduates in the 1st team. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Of all the things to criticise, the Academy is the least deserving. On a good day we'd have 5 or 6 graduates in the first team. Very few teams in the top 4 Divisions can better that. For a Championship side it is an excellent achievement and reflects well on the work done at youth level. 

The current crop aren't all going to come through together, but Pike, Vale, Carter and Butterworth (if ever fit) look like being the next bunch to break through. Find me another club with that kind of success rate. I find your 'concern' very strange. Some clubs struggle to get more than 1 or 2 Academy graduates in the 1st team. 

I just thought it was worth pointing out that in the last 2 years in which we seem to have been very successful, that I am not sure if any of them have yet shown signs of establishing themselves at senior level like the 4 or 5 of recent years did/have.

Ultimately academys are never consistently churning out first team players year in and year out, and Travis, Lenihan and Nyambe all have established themselves in the 3 or 4 years prior, as well as Raya who was sold. So its not necessarily a criticism of the academy at all. And it isnt all about first team players, the likes of Rankin Costello and Wharton as squad players means that we save money on having to sign 2 bodies to fill those roles so there is constant use from the youth team.

I also think that the gap between under 23s and its sanitised environment and senior league football is so vast that maybe there isnt THAT strong a correlation between performances there and likelihood of breaking through to the senior team. A lot of the time, stand out prospects may not spend a lot of time there, either due to loans or instant promotion to the first team.

 Out of interest, did Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis stand out at that level, I genuinely dont know? 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I also think that the gap between under 23s and its sanitised environment and senior league football is so vast that maybe there isnt THAT strong a correlation between performances there and likelihood of breaking through to the senior team.

Exactly, which makes our current record of getting Academy graduates in the 1st team even more remarkable. I can only remember the group including Duff, Dunn, Johnson etc being in anyway comparable in terms of numbers going into the first team. We've always produced players since Jack came in and set up Brockhall but a lot of our best youths have ended up in the lower divisions or non-league, and that goes back to the Prem days. The current rate of success of getting youths into the 1st team is incredible, especially as a Championship club. 

 

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, did Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis stand out at that level, I genuinely dont know? 

I didn't see enough of them at youth team level to know TBH. I think Travis was played at full-back.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Exactly, which makes our current record of getting Academy graduates in the 1st team even more remarkable. I can only remember the group including Duff, Dunn, Johnson etc being in anyway comparable in terms of numbers going into the first team. We've always produced players since Jack came in and set up Brockhall but a lot of our best youths have ended up in the lower divisions or non-league, and that goes back to the Prem days. The current rate of success of getting youths into the 1st team is incredible, especially as a Championship club. 

 

I didn't see enough of them at youth team level to know TBH. I think Travis was played at full-back.

Absolutely, it was in no way a criticism or doubt as to the worth of the academy. I was just pointing out that considering how well in regards to under 23 league tables that the current crop seems to be doing, there doesnt seem to be any star talent that stands out. The three that have played a role this season, one is a versatile squad player who perhaps hasnt made any position his own and seems to have injury issues that the manager touched on, one has been on some successful loans and of course was unfortunate to get that injury although had never established himself at this level with any regularity prior, and one of course we differ on the opinion of but I am sure that you will concede that he has never broken through and gotten himself a regular run of starts in what is a congested area of our squad. With the others, they have either had the briefest of first team careers and/or see to be either too injury prone or not considered even when there are no senior players available in their position.

It is unreasonable to expect a steady stream of constant new first teamers through the academy each season, and indeed even a couple of squad players (on the back of a spell in which 4 key players came through, one being sold) is very useful.

I seem to recall Travis playing at right back in the 2 dreadful spectacles that were the Checkatrade Trophy games v Stoke and Bury before he had established himself in the first team in midfield a year later.

[inflikted]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Mols could barely get a game in the Spanish 4th (I think?) tier

 

Yeah Intercity are Tercera División, which is Spain's 4th tier. It's mostly amateur there. You only really start to see a semi-decent standard in the top sides of the Segunda Divisón B (third tier). That's where you get sides who are chasing La Liga 2, as well as the B teams of Barcelona and Real Madrid etc.

Edited January 27, 2021 by inflikted

[Oldgregg86]

On 27/01/2021 at 20:55, roversfan99 said:

I just thought it was worth pointing out that in the last 2 years in which we seem to have been very successful, that I am not sure if any of them have yet shown signs of establishing themselves at senior level like the 4 or 5 of recent years did/have.

Ultimately academys are never consistently churning out first team players year in and year out, and Travis, Lenihan and Nyambe all have established themselves in the 3 or 4 years prior, as well as Raya who was sold. So its not necessarily a criticism of the academy at all. And it isnt all about first team players, the likes of Rankin Costello and Wharton as squad players means that we save money on having to sign 2 bodies to fill those roles so there is constant use from the youth team.

I also think that the gap between under 23s and its sanitised environment and senior league football is so vast that maybe there isnt THAT strong a correlation between performances there and likelihood of breaking through to the senior team. A lot of the time, stand out prospects may not spend a lot of time there, either due to loans or instant promotion to the first team.

 Out of interest, did Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis stand out at that level, I genuinely dont know? 

They all stood out for me but out of all of them Lenihan the least

[had.e.nuff]

U21s on LCFC tv tonight free to view only need to register.

[only2garners]

26 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

U21s on LCFC tv tonight free to view only need to register.

That'll be a tough challenge - Leicester are playing their under 23s.

[RV Blue]

Dack, Bennett, Evans all start