Academy & U21s

[Sparks Rover]

7 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Brad Lyons and Tom White must be up there with some of the oddest signings we've made at this level. In hindsight it really just feels as though they were brought here to keep results moving in the PL2, before some loans and being let go. 

You need a squad of what, 20 to compete in the 23s league.?  Stands to reason the vast majority won't make it and are only brought in so can put a team out and fulfil our obligations.   Its all a waste of time really.

[simongarnerisgod]

4 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

You mean Dolan? Not sure he has it in him myself.  They got another lad in the 23s that came from the nobbers.

he`s very raw but got the ability,just needs a half decent manager to guide him,moggasaurous not the man to improve anyone imo,especially a young lad who`s intent on looking to beat his man every time,he`ll probably be dumped in the u23`s this season with the subs allowed being reduced

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Brad Lyons and Tom White must be up there with some of the oddest signings we've made at this level. In hindsight it really just feels as though they were brought here to keep results moving in the PL2, before some loans and being let go. 

Do you think that it would make more sense to revert back to the old reserve league style system which would not only avoid crucial years in a young players development being wasted and also would see young players playing against seasoned pros rather than in a sanitised environment?

[BlackburnEnd75]

49 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you think that it would make more sense to revert back to the old reserve league style system which would not only avoid crucial years in a young players development being wasted and also would see young players playing against seasoned pros rather than in a sanitised environment?

I don't think even if you went back to a reserves league that it would be made of senior pros. I think those days are numbered. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you think that it would make more sense to revert back to the old reserve league style system which would not only avoid crucial years in a young players development being wasted and also would see young players playing against seasoned pros rather than in a sanitised environment?

How many clubs would play the first team pro's in the league when you consider the number of games that the first team play each season? 

Did you used to watch the old reserve league style system before it was changed to the current format? How much of the current format have you watch over the past 5 or 6 years?

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How many clubs would play the first team pro's in the league when you consider the number of games that the first team play each season? 

Did you used to watch the old reserve league style system before it was changed to the current format? How much of the current format have you watch over the past 5 or 6 years?

They play behind closed doors games when not in the team or returning from injury...what's the difference?

[roversfan99]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How many clubs would play the first team pro's in the league when you consider the number of games that the first team play each season? 

Did you used to watch the old reserve league style system before it was changed to the current format? How much of the current format have you watch over the past 5 or 6 years?

No, I have never watched or to be honest really had an interest in regularly watching the under age teams to be honest. It was just a question as the difference between reserve and first team football seems vast, and our reserves keep succeeding yet there doesnt seem to be many close to the first team.

As @Sparks Rover touches upon, players returning from injury or indeed those who simply dont get any game time of a weekend could play for the reserves. In theory, it would benefit everyone, the football would be much more competitive and make the youngsters that do progress through the ranks more prepared for senior football, it would allow all senior players to then keep a level of match fitness and it would also prevent signings being made for the reserves solely to fill gaps at that level, as Lyons and White seem to have done.

[bluebruce]

31 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No, I have never watched or to be honest really had an interest in regularly watching the under age teams to be honest. It was just a question as the difference between reserve and first team football seems vast, and our reserves keep succeeding yet there doesnt seem to be many close to the first team.

As @Sparks Rover touches upon, players returning from injury or indeed those who simply dont get any game time of a weekend could play for the reserves. In theory, it would benefit everyone, the football would be much more competitive and make the youngsters that do progress through the ranks more prepared for senior football, it would allow all senior players to then keep a level of match fitness and it would also prevent signings being made for the reserves solely to fill gaps at that level, as Lyons and White seem to have done.

You can already play senior players in the u23s. If I'm remembering rightly, you can play up to 3 players who are over 23. We just seldom do it, except when someone is returning from a long injury layoff.

[RoversClitheroe]

13 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

 If I'm remembering rightly, you can play up to 3 players who are over 23. We just seldom do it, except when someone is returning from a long injury layoff.

Impossible to be able to put senior players in the 23s when Mowbray picks formation, player positions and players out the hat week in week out.

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No, I have never watched or to be honest really had an interest in regularly watching the under age teams to be honest. It was just a question as the difference between reserve and first team football seems vast, and our reserves keep succeeding yet there doesnt seem to be many close to the first team.

As @Sparks Rover touches upon, players returning from injury or indeed those who simply dont get any game time of a weekend could play for the reserves. In theory, it would benefit everyone, the football would be much more competitive and make the youngsters that do progress through the ranks more prepared for senior football, it would allow all senior players to then keep a level of match fitness and it would also prevent signings being made for the reserves solely to fill gaps at that level, as Lyons and White seem to have done.

I watched alot of the under 23 and 18 over the past 5 to 6 years until this lockdown prevent fans attending. The first time I watched Travis play I thought he will be one for the future for example. 

Players who are over 23's can play for under 23's like Dack and Ayala have done over the past 12 months so I don't see the point you are making tbh. 

[Guest]

I think the 23’s system worked better as a 21’s system. The league has worked for progressing the likes of Nyambe, Travis and Raya into first team football. But we developed them in the PL2 as 18-21 year olds. 

Where it doesn’t work is when 21-23 year olds come in and are somehow expected to become first team players from playing in that league.

For the 18 year olds like Pike, LRC, Nolan, Garrett and Burns - I think the PL2 has some merit. A year there and a year on loan (if done right) can develop footballers well. But signing a player aged 20+ from Gateshead or Coleraine seems to be an odd move for a Cat One academy

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I think the 23’s system worked better as a 21’s system. The league has worked for progressing the likes of Nyambe, Travis and Raya into first team football. But we developed them in the PL2 as 18-21 year olds. 

Where it doesn’t work is when 21-23 year olds come in and are somehow expected to become first team players from playing in that league.

For the 18 year olds like Pike, LRC, Nolan, Garrett and Burns - I think the PL2 has some merit. A year there and a year on loan (if done right) can develop footballers well. But signing a player aged 20+ from Gateshead or Coleraine seems to be an odd move for a Cat One academy

Do you not think they would be better if senior players (and this isnt a rule thing as apparently 3 can play but it seemingly isnt really common) played more regularly at that level? Are any of them kids likely to be anywhere near our first team?

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you not think they would be better if senior players (and this isnt a rule thing as apparently 3 can play but it seemingly isnt really common) played more regularly at that level? Are any of them kids likely to be anywhere near our first team?

From what I have seen Pike could make the bench, that's about it.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you not think they would be better if senior players (and this isnt a rule thing as apparently 3 can play but it seemingly isnt really common) played more regularly at that level? Are any of them kids likely to be anywhere near our first team?

Some of them would benefit. I think sometimes these players need to feel good if that makes sense. Let them play against other similar aged and experienced players for a few years and grow in confidence, bang 15 goals in, then get them out to League Two. 

It should be U21's, and once they hit 20 they're either ready for the bench or they're not. For me.

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Let them play against other similar aged and experienced players for a few years and grow in confidence, bang 15 goals in, then get them out to League Two. 

Or Chorley......

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, JoeH said:

I think the 23’s system worked better as a 21’s system. The league has worked for progressing the likes of Nyambe, Travis and Raya into first team football. But we developed them in the PL2 as 18-21 year olds. 

Where it doesn’t work is when 21-23 year olds come in and are somehow expected to become first team players from playing in that league.

For the 18 year olds like Pike, LRC, Nolan, Garrett and Burns - I think the PL2 has some merit. A year there and a year on loan (if done right) can develop footballers well. 

Its a good idea Joe about changing it from under 23's to under 21's even.  

I think you seem the benefit of Carter this season past going on loan and playing regular 1st team football in league 1. 

I think Rovers and our youth management setup doesn't do enough to get our good young players out of loan if they aren't good enough to break into our 1st team like Travis or Raya was. But get them loans to league 1 or 2 clubs. 

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you not think they would be better if senior players (and this isnt a rule thing as apparently 3 can play but it seemingly isnt really common) played more regularly at that level? Are any of them kids likely to be anywhere near our first team?

Thats cos first team managers won't play them in it. I remember watching Rovers under 23's vs Man City under 23's a couple of seasons where Mangala played and he was awful and Rovers players torn him apart. 

I think Pike, Eastham(could be number 2 or 3 choice for Rovers 1st team), Burns and McBride could set up to the 1st team for me and Mowbray should have given them a few games towards the end of the season instead of playing of players who werent going to be here next season. Its was mistake(another one by Mowbray) not to do so

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its a good idea Joe about changing it from under 23's to under 21's even.  

I think you seem the benefit of Carter this season past going on loan and playing regular 1st team football in league 1. 

I think Rovers and our youth management setup doesn't do enough to get our good young players out of loan if they aren't good enough to break into our 1st team like Travis or Raya was. But get them loans to league 1 or 2 clubs. 

Thats cos first team managers won't play them in it. I remember watching Rovers under 23's vs Man City under 23's a couple of seasons where Mangala played and he was awful and Rovers players torn him apart. 

I think Pike, Eastham(could be number 2 or 3 choice for Rovers 1st team), Burns and McBride could set up to the 1st team for me and Mowbray should have given them a few games towards the end of the season instead of playing of players who werent going to be here next season. Its was mistake(another one by Mowbray) not to do so

I dont doubt that Mowbray is an idiot (my issue was more with him selecting players like Evans, Trybull, Johnson who should have gone, Bennett etc rather than giving the young first team players who are more likely to be in the first team this season more game time, Davenport, Buckley, Dolan etc) but the problem with those that you name is we have no idea whether any of those that you name are anywhere close to Championship standard because they have only played against kids.

[speeeeeeedie]

On 15/05/2021 at 10:40, Sparks Rover said:

Ah well, never mind.

He'll find something. There are plenty of other teams close by, but it may mean driving a bit further than he has been doing though. 

I grew up in East Lancs so have no history or contacts where he lives.

Apparently Bolton or Accy Stanley (can't remember which) offered for him to go and play for them whenever he feels like it, no contract or training commitment, just turn up when he wants to. I don't know how that would work.

[chaddyrovers]

 

31 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont doubt that Mowbray is an idiot (my issue was more with him selecting players like Evans, Trybull, Johnson who should have gone, Bennett etc rather than giving the young first team players who are more likely to be in the first team this season more game time, Davenport, Buckley, Dolan etc) but the problem with those that you name is we have no idea whether any of those that you name are anywhere close to Championship standard because they have only played against kids.

Buckley should have playing regularly until end of the season. If Evans, Trybull and Downing weren't going to be here then they shouldn't have feature in our last 8 games. 

Thats why Mowbray should have given them game time in the last 8 games whether its was starting the game like Pike at Right back or Burns on the left of the front 3 or coming off the bench for 20 mins or so. 

[Sparks Rover]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Buckley should have playing regularly until end of the season

Why? Just cos he's here.? Not good enough but never mind.

[Sparks Rover]

36 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

He'll find something. There are plenty of other teams close by, but it may mean driving a bit further than he has been doing though. 

I grew up in East Lancs so have no history or contacts where he lives.

Apparently Bolton or Accy Stanley (can't remember which) offered for him to go and play for them whenever he feels like it, no contract or training commitment, just turn up when he wants to. I don't know how that would work.

Sounds like Accy.  Notlob have a decent t academy , Accy just use local college etc...bit less formal..

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont doubt that Mowbray is an idiot (my issue was more with him selecting players like Evans, Trybull, Johnson who should have gone, Bennett etc rather than giving the young first team players who are more likely to be in the first team this season more game time, Davenport, Buckley, Dolan etc) but the problem with those that you name is we have no idea whether any of those that you name are anywhere close to Championship standard because they have only played against kids.

Uncle Tony knows, he knows all about the kids and how good they are, so he ignored the excellent opportunities for the rest of us mere peons to see.

God I'm really starting to hate this man.

[SoldierMo]

Hes just an idiot bloody annoying me crazy

Edited May 17, 2021 by SoldierMo

[bluebruce]

Another weirdly short contract, this time for Burns. 18, been in the u23s this season, scored 7 in his last 11 I think it is.

One year deal with a one year option.

Meanwhile, Alex Baker, 18, been in the u18s this season, guaranteed 2 year deal.

[JohnGo]

41 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Another weirdly short contract, this time for Burns. 18, been in the u23s this season, scored 7 in his last 11 I think it is.

One year deal with a one year option.

Meanwhile, Alex Baker, 18, been in the u18s this season, guaranteed 2 year deal.

Baker 2 years to prove he’s capable of making the u23s. Burns 1 year for either loan out or breakthrough into first team squad. Burns needs to kick on and prove the second half of the season was not a fluke.