Academy & U21s

[Dortmund Rover 32]

I don't watch the U21 games either but all I can put Bowyer's reluctance to play them is fear. Yesterday would have been ideal to put a couple in the side and have a look at them. Instead we have a two loan players and several out of contract players in who possibly won't be with us next season. This is the same fear that has cost us many points over the last two seasons.

[rog of the rovers]

A friend of mines son (was at Liverpool) went for a trial at Rovers. I saw him the other day and asked how he got on.

He didn't get offered the chance to join the academy, the reasons given......''whilst technically he's one of the best players we've seen for his age, but he's not the sort of player we are after as he's not tall enough.''

A sad indictment of the current academy system, not only at Rovers but across the UK. And we wonder why we never win anything on the world stage.

[speeeeeeedie]

A friend of mines son (was at Liverpool) went for a trial at Rovers. I saw him the other day and asked how he got on.

He didn't get offered the chance to join the academy, the reasons given......''whilst technically he's one of the best players we've seen for his age, but he's not the sort of player we are after as he's not tall enough.''

A sad indictment of the current academy system, not only at Rovers but across the UK. And we wonder why we never win anything on the world stage.

It's always been this way. I doubt that David Silva would have ever been a footballer if he grew up in England.

I have heard stories of clubs performing x-rays on keepers hands to assess height at adulthood. If the results don't come back showing 6 foot plus they are gone.

As a side to your friends son. Football is a very insular world. Oftentimes a lad gets released from one place it's then an easy out for other clubs to say no. A quick word with the previous club's academy director and their mind is made up before the kid has kicked a ball at the new club.

[rog of the rovers]

It's always been this way. I doubt that David Silva would have ever been a footballer if he grew up in England.

I have heard stories of clubs performing x-rays on keepers hands to assess height at adulthood. If the results don't come back showing 6 foot plus they are gone.

As a side to your friends son. Football is a very insular world. Oftentimes a lad gets released from one place it's then an easy out for other clubs to say no. A quick word with the previous club's academy director and their mind is made up before the kid has kicked a ball at the new club.

Spot on. I think he's going back to play Sunday football. No doubt if he's good enough he'll get scouted again and will get another crack.

I think he's only 12/13 so time is on his side.

I remember watching our youth team about 10 years ago or so when my age group was 17-18, knew four or five of the lads in the team so watched quite a few of their games. I remember we had a decent team that won the Academy league.

Part of that squad was Kevin Pezzoni, who later went on to be ''bullied'' out of football, so I'll choose my words carefully, but talk about a player who got by on being big and tall. He was clearly the weakest member of that squad, yet I think he's one of the few who actually went on to play at a decent professional level.

[ABBEY]

Imagine messi getting slung out

[Stuart]

A friend of mines son (was at Liverpool) went for a trial at Rovers. I saw him the other day and asked how he got on.

He didn't get offered the chance to join the academy, the reasons given......''whilst technically he's one of the best players we've seen for his age, but he's not the sort of player we are after as he's not tall enough.''

A sad indictment of the current academy system, not only at Rovers but across the UK. And we wonder why we never win anything on the world stage.

It just shows that for all the rhetoric peddled by the FA about grassroots changes is pointless garbage, as professional clubs don't but into it. English football will never ever change because the same people carry on making the same decisions again and again, and there is no incentive to do anything differently.

If Messi or Maradonnachad been born English they'd have been binned off too.

It genuinely saddens me.

[Bluebell]

I've had a knowledge of the academy system for a number of years. The problem the boy from Liverpool will have is that he's been playing a different type of football, it's a different type of coaching, you could say more technical. At Blackburn he'd struggle to fit in. To me, (at Blackburn,) in the older ages they look at big and strong and get stuck in.

Rovers used to do the hand X-ray on all players, not sure if they still do though. All clubs make mistakes on players, but you have got to have the belief in your own ability, which is difficult for youngsters. It's all about opinions, what one club doesn't want another does. Rovers have in the past told boys they won't make it only for top clubs to take them on. With the coaches, there are good and bad at every club, some you wouldn't want to coach your son as they aren't good enough to improve a good technical player. The problem any child has is once they have signed they are stuck there, basically owned by the club from the age of 8.

[Stuart]

But the practise of selecting players based on height in limiting the quality shorter players.

Raheem Sterling (according to his wiki) is 5' 7. Should he have been told he's not going to make it?

[Bluebell]

I Agee, Sterling was bought by Liverpool at approx age 14, having paid for him he will therefore have been given time to develop, also not many have his pace. Not all clubs give the smaller boys time to develop. If you were to look at a reason as to why so many don't make it, it could be that the bigger or boys who matured early stood out age 14 to 16, if the late developers were given time, maybe more would come through, unfortunately not all clubs have that vision. It probably depends on the ethos of the club at the time, pretty sure Rovers had the chance of signing a young Thomas Ince but didn't think he was good enough, maybe he wasn't aggressive or big enough. Yet good enough for Liverpool! You could say the same with Ricky Lambert, who left Liverpool at a young age, maybe not technical enough.

[Stuart]

This is the problem though, only trying to develop the early developers is to the detriment of smaller players. By the time those players who looked good when they simply had a physical advantage are caught up by the rest it's too late.

Then clubs complain about the lack of talent and buy youth from abroad. Not enough is done by professional clubs to develop youngsters and bring them through. They rely on community volunteers with minimal training, time and budgets then cherry pick the stronger ones, only to dump them later. Clubs should be investing far more in properly developing young talent.

[Andyblue2]

Lazy

Can't Run

Doesn't Run

Slow

Would never have made it through today's academy system.......Matthew Le Tissier

[Bluebell]

Yes, Le Tissier would have had no chance, many of the staff within clubs are no different to us all, in fact you wonder what some staff see in players, something we see now with the first team. How many players these days can beat a man? There won't be many, in academy's they are all coached the same, there are boys who you would think shouldn't be there but they may blossom late but the club won't give them time. I'm sure there are many who have been through the academy system who have been broken by it and wish they'd have waited. In each age a club may have 20 players, they can't all play! I watch Rovers and feel they miss a player to burst from midfield beyond the forwards, that can see a pass, a player that will be rare at any club, some academy's knock that out of the boys at a young age. Man U have recently taken a lad on trial Drew Lewis, a mate of mine was a Tranmere as a young lad with him. He tells me he wasn't so good so hardly ever played, they released him. None of the lads have gone into football from that team, yet the worst at the time has the best opportunity.

[Baz]

A lot comes down to the coaching and what they want from or see in a player.

If you have academies full of ex-players who arent really focussed on the modern game, and are just looking for the quickest/tallest etc then they may misss the skillful ones, and to make a decision at age 12 is really harsh.

How many of those players dont even go for another trial and just give up?

Maj used to talk at length about the players who are missed because of the coaching myopia and some of the smaller clubs who have focussed on development of the individual to their talent, rather than the to the team style.

[Bluebell]

Not all coaches are ex players, I have mostly found the ex player appreciates ability, unfortunately the people above them who have probably done nothing in the game make the decisions. Many coaches are school teachers or are at clubs because of who they know, not what they know. Many will say its a closed shop. A boy can shine one year with one coach who he gets on with, but spend the following year in decline due to a coach who isn't as good or possibly doesn't encourage the lad. Some clubs have a belief that if they can put football into say a fast runner, can they put a football brain into the same player?

They are letting boys go all the time, but if the boy wants to go they can't. For any boy released, it's one persons opinion, that same person will have been bitten on many occasions by boys who have stuck at it and go bigger and better.

[Andyblue2]

It's a world of nepotism and back scratching. The number of ex-pros kids now coming through is a disgrace. I know of one kid at Notlob who is the academy managers son (ex average Notlob fullback), and he's nowhere near the level required but cos dads been there for a while now, he's a first year scholar and due to his dad's connections will almost certainly make some kind of career. I know for a fact that more talented kids have been let go before him.

It's happening everywhere and I see it being a real talent killer as more and more money comes into the game and more and more ex pros get their mates to sign their kids....it's a feckin joke actually and I'd stop the academy system immediately and start again.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Andyblue2

[chaddyrovers]

any idea who Rovers will appoint as Under 21's manager?

I would look to appoint someone like Mike Newell

[Stuart]

There will be a thorough recruitment, sifting and interview process to ensure the best options are available.

And then they'll decide that John Filan was the stand-out candidate.

[Bluebell]

You would hazard a guess at somebody from within as with the academy job. A step up from below or a Craig Short type.

[Parsonblue]

There will be a thorough recruitment, sifting and interview process to ensure the best options are available.

And then they'll decide that John Filan was the stand-out candidate.

Wouldn't be a bad appointment Stuart. He's done a decent job thus far this season.

[Stuart]

[blueboy3333]

laughing at someone who knows a lot more about the goings on at Ewood shows you up as the ignoramus i always thought you were.

Wouldn't be a bad appointment Stuart. He's done a decent job thus far this season.

only realised who you were when i saw the Blue-eyed boy's blog the other day. I've really enjoyed your books on Rovers over the years, as have a lot of my family.

[yoda]

laughing at someone who knows a lot more about the goings on at Ewood shows you up as the ignoramus i always thought you were.

only realised who you were when i saw the Blue-eyed boy's blog the other day. I've really enjoyed your books on Rovers over the years, as have a lot of my family.

Might be worth checking out who Stuart is

[blueboy3333]

Might be worth checking out who Stuart is

Steve Kean?

Regardless, laughing at a fellow poster's opinion doesn't really add anything to the board.

Edited March 29, 2015 by blueboy3333

[Stuart]

Stick your beak out, Blueboyzzzz. Parson is long enough in the tooth to know where I was coming from. if he doesn't then he's quite capable of making his own enquiries.

When I want your opinion I'll ask for it - but don't cancel any plans while you are waiting.

[Parsonblue]

So, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what you perceive to be Filan's strengths and weaknesses as a coach and why he hasn't brought anything to the Under-21 squad this season?

Edited March 29, 2015 by Parsonblue