Academy & U21s

[chaddyrovers]

42 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Any updates score wise?

 

 

[rigger]

5-1 win against forest tonight, it would have been more but the Forest keeper had a good game. George Pratt was impressive at the back. Alex Baker has a good turn and is quite strong, his final ball and shooting need working on. There was some feisty tackles going in from both sides. The ref actually did fairly well in comparison with some of the idiots that have been down here.

[Spartakfenni]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

We sat next to Felix’s mum and dad. The game was thoroughly enjoyable. We have some real prospects in this group. Citing, Pratt, Gamble, Wharton , Burns, Leonard, Baker. They all had good games. This was essentially  the u18’s. The future is certainly bright.

[Spartakfenni]

Just now, Spartakfenni said:

We sat next to Felix’s mum and dad. The game was thoroughly enjoyable. We have some real prospects in this group. Citing, Pratt, Gamble, Wharton , Burns, Leonard, Baker. They all had good games. This was essentially  the u18’s. The future is certainly bright.

Bloody predictive text before any smart Alec’s reply

[Trinidad Rover]

Whatever happened to Stergiakis?!

[Spartakfenni]

11 hours ago, Trinidad Rover said:

Whatever happened to Stergiakis?!

More importantly what’s happened to McBride? He was on the bench and didn’t get on when Leonard got injured. The lad seems to have lost his way.

[riverholmes]

It does seem that there was a choice to play mostly U18s in this cup game, as Durrant, Brennan and, I think, Nolan were also subs, with McBride.

It is worrying how far off it McBride is, after last season's finish as top scorer and, arguably, one of the star players for the high finishing U23 team. I do hold out hopes for him as he seemed like a technically gifted and confident player. His form has gone along with a general fall in the team's form, aggravated by key injuries, who are struggling against relegation now. He scored a lot of pens last year but he finished high in the goal charts behind, I believe, the likes of Man City's Palmer and Delap, who are getting rave reviews. And, then, he went and scored that free kick for the first team in pre-season and there were hopes he'd get more chances.

I recall reading that he was close to a loan move in the summer but the club seems to have barred loans - perhaps, fearing the effects of a Covid breakout or just poor planning as to the core squad, I don't know. However, he really needs to get going again. A loan move might be a good idea in January but there might be fewer suitors now. If he does go out, it' has to be to a team in the football league or SPL.

My speculative belief is that a lot of players form has stalled from a kind of developmental hiatus this year. Players are not getting first team opportunities and not out on loan and, combined with the loss to injury of key players like Barnes, Whitehall and Garrett has meant a struggle to compete. There's also a transition of leadership from Billy Barr to Mike Sheron, which might involve some new ways of doing things.

The positive is the form and contribution of U18s players, which will hopefully get the U23s performing again. Sam Burns, also, is a bright spot who, despite one of the strange non-league month loan spells, has been scoring and, if he continues, perhaps, deserves recognition from Mowbray.

Edited December 14, 2021 by riverholmes

[rigger]

Another point that I took from last nights game is, It's not just the first team that hasn't got a clue about taking throw-ins. 

[Guest]

A conversation with Rovers Head of Academy Stuart Jones.

 

For anyone who hasn't got time to listen, one of the interesting points to come from this is that Ash Phillips (1st year scholar, 16y/o) is now permanently training with the 1st team from this point forward.

[AndyW]

Thanks for posting that @JoeH that's what I had come here to do...🙂

What did people make of what Stuart had to say?

Any questions that you wanted to be asked that weren't?

[Rochdale_rover]

Cheers for that.

 

Good listen

Great to hear what is happening down at the academy

[had.e.nuff]

Leicester usually so their u23 games live on their web site all you have to do is sign up its free

[rigger]

3 hours ago, had.e.nuff said:

Leicester usually so their u23 games live on their web site all you have to do is sign up its free

Leicester game is off.

[AndyW]

The latest Rovers Academy Podcast was an interview with RB/RWB Jay Haddow.

Jay is a Hong Kong native who came over to England at the age of 12 on his own and Rovers approached him pretty quickly. He has been part of the Academy since then and he is a key part of our fantastic U18 side and now U23s as well.

https://youtu.be/m844HUEJMIw

[chaddyrovers]

On 15/12/2021 at 17:41, JoeH said:

A conversation with Rovers Head of Academy Stuart Jones.

 

For anyone who hasn't got time to listen, one of the interesting points to come from this is that Ash Phillips (1st year scholar, 16y/o) is now permanently training with the 1st team from this point forward.

Brilliant podcast. Very enjoyable to listen. 

Our Academy seems to go from strength to strength 

[bluebruce]

On 20/12/2021 at 19:41, AndyW said:

The latest Rovers Academy Podcast was an interview with RB/RWB Jay Haddow.

Jay is a Hong Kong native who came over to England at the age of 12 on his own and Rovers approached him pretty quickly. He has been part of the Academy since then and he is a key part of our fantastic U18 side and now U23s as well.

https://youtu.be/m844HUEJMIw

It's not legal to fly internationally on your own at 12?

[AndyW]

59 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It's not legal to fly internationally on your own at 12?

He flew with his Dad who initially stayed with him for a month. He remained here on his own, though received regular visits from family.

Sorry if you felt mislead. Not intended.

[riverholmes]

Rovers U23 policy of allowing players to go out on month-long loans into the conference league, three or four tiers below us, makes little sense to me. Dan Pike has just rejoined AFC Fylde in the National League North, the second tier of the conference. He was there earlier in the season and got injured.

Pike must be rated by the club, as he was given a new contract recently. In which case, the club should be looking to nurture the player for the first team and/or enhancing his transfer value for sale if he doesn't make the cut. I don't believe that desultory month-long loan spells to such a different standard and style of football will be beneficial for either.

I can understand the choice to send an U18s player on a "work experience" contract, as has been done - or someone who's going to be released (eg. Stefan Mols at the end of his time here) - but an established U23 player with a new contract is, to my mind, very poor judgment. I can also understand but am sceptical of a season long loan to the conference, as David Raya had at Southport. However, at least, the season gives the player a chance to adapt to his surroundings and gain a meaningful amount of experience with a secure contract.

Jack Vale, with his Wales U21 goals would, I suspect, with a few Rovers sub appearances, potentially carry a meaningful transfer value. (Though, the pandemic is likely to really diminish the FPL transfer market). If he stays fit, he could even develop the form and confidence to contribute something with Rovers first team The loan spell in non-league with Halifax, could easily diminish any potential transfer value and I don't think will add much to his game nor his standing - given the very different style and significantly lower standard of football played in non-league.

The players seem to be desperate to play, as their first team squad opportunities are highly limited. U23s football is not as competitive as first team football. However, the club need to be making better decisions about their long-term "assets". I agree that Pike needs first-team football - and, personally, I'm not sure of him making it at Rovers without a lot of improvement, though others who have much more knowledge of the U23s rate him highly. The club need to be advising him to stay put and find a League 2 club, at least, and, ideally, a spell that is more secure than 1 month.

On the other hand, if offers aren't around and the player desperately wants football, at least try to organise a longer-term and secure non-league loan, which gives the player security and time to gain meaningful experience. Sam Burns' month or so at FC United strikes me as lacking worth and risky for a player who is supposedly one of our best U23 players.

All this being said, I am very much looking in from the outside, so I'd be interested to know what the club's justification is.

Edit: Just seen that Jack Vale did go to Halifax Town for a half-season loan, which, at least, provides some security and adaptation time., as opposed to these month-long contracts He's playing in the National League, one level above what Dan Pike will be playing at AFC Fylde. 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by riverholmes

[Guest]

1 minute ago, riverholmes said:

The players seem to be desperate to play, as their first team squad opportunities are highly limited. U23s football is not as competitive as first team football. However, the club need to be making better decisions about their long-term "assets". I agree that Pike needs first-team football - and, personally, I don't see him making it at Rovers, though others who have much more knowledge of the U23s rate him highly. The club need to be advising him to stay put and find a League 2 club, at least, and, ideally, a spell that is more secure than 1 month.

 

I think it's clear that when this is a viable option, we use it. Wharton and Carter are good examples. Likelihood is that nobody in Lg1 or Lg2 thinks he can impact them right now. A lot of clubs disregard PL2 football atlogether and if him doing another month with AFC Fylde puts him in the shop window for the end January then that's a good thing. He'll come back here just before deadline day, hopefully off the back of 3/4 impressive performances - ready to go out somewhere.

[only2garners]

It seems to me that we are blessed with an overabundance of talent in the Academy right now. The success of the under 18 team has led to a number pushing for experience at under 23s. They can only get this if the incumbents give way. Allowing them to go out on short term loans gives them some real like experience in matches that matter whilst allowing a youngster to have a go at the next level.

There's also a case that a month long loan means that the player can be back quickly if the club needs him.

[bluebruce]

4 hours ago, JoeH said:

I think it's clear that when this is a viable option, we use it. Wharton and Carter are good examples. Likelihood is that nobody in Lg1 or Lg2 thinks he can impact them right now. A lot of clubs disregard PL2 football atlogether and if him doing another month with AFC Fylde puts him in the shop window for the end January then that's a good thing. He'll come back here just before deadline day, hopefully off the back of 3/4 impressive performances - ready to go out somewhere.

I got the impression from articles at the time that we clung onto our youth players and wouldn't let them go until after the window was shut, in case we needed more bodies. Then sent them on these short-term non-league loans when the window was shut to League One and Two. I don't know about Pike specifically, but that appeared to be the general situation.

[Sparks Rover]

13 hours ago, only2garners said:

There's also a case that a month long loan means that the player can be back quickly if the club needs him.

They still come into Brockhall everyday and train don't they, the fyldes of this world aren't full time are they??  Can they not play for both fylde and the 23s?

[Mattyblue]

Pretty sure Fylde are fully pro, which made it very embarrassing for them to end up in National North when their plan was to be in the EFL for 2022.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Sparks Rover]

50 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Pretty sure Fylde are fully pro, which made it very embarrassing for them to end up in National North when their plan was to be in the EFL for 2022.

Well, if that is the case I wouldn't like them going training with them everyday..  in my experience of fylde as a club they are a right set of shysters.  

I know a couple of boys on loan at bamber bridge from pne and they just play games and train a couple of times per week...rest of time the play for nobbers reserves and go into Euxton as normal.  

[had.e.nuff]

19 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

They still come into Brockhall everyday and train don't they, the fyldes of this world aren't full time are they??  Can they not play for both fylde and the 23s?

afc fylde are full time, Pike is only on a short term loan till early jan so could still go to a EFL league team for the rest of the season