Academy & U21s

[arbitro]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

A tough game coming up on Friday against City. Especially if we are going to rest some players against Wigan in the cup the next day. 

City could be in the same boat as they are at Swindon on Friday night.

[rigger]

50 minutes ago, arbitro said:

City could be in the same boat as they are at Swindon on Friday night.

I hope so because we could do with the points.

[rigger]

The City game has been moved to, 13:00 Sunday at Brockhall.

[Adam C]

On 02/01/2022 at 20:02, rigger said:

Personnally I don't think Annesley is good enough for league football.

Just because you think that, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. 😂 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, The Hypnotic said:

Just because you think that, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. 😂 

As far as it is my opinion. It does make it true.

[RoverCanada]

Jack Vale returning from his FC Halifax Town loan. It only ran to January, so this isn't his loan being 'cut short'.

1 goal in 10 league appearances (6 starts, 4 subs), plus 1 goal in 3 FA Cup appearances, and 1 goal in 1 FA Trophy appearance. I think he also had a few assists...

So, hardly blew the doors off, but Halifax fans seem to think he was okay. However, I think you'd hope for/expect him to be starring at the National League level if he was ever going to make it for us. A shame as there was some hype for him at one point (I can still vividly recall him smacking the crossbar in his one sub appearance!). Injuries probably haven't helped.

Hopefully can find another loan for the rest of the year, but perhaps he'll be the u23s striker to finish the year if Burns and McBride are going out on loan. Still signed for 2023 and turning 21 in March.

Edited January 4, 2022 by RoverCanada

[bluebruce]

8 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

Jack Vale returning from his FC Halifax Town loan. It only ran to January, so this isn't his loan being 'cut short'.

1 goal in 10 league appearances (6 starts, 4 subs), plus 1 goal in 3 FA Cup appearances, and 1 goal in 1 FA Trophy appearance. I think he also had a few assists...

So, hardly blew the doors off, but Halifax fans seem to think he was okay. However, I think you'd hope for/expect him to be starring at the National League level if he was ever going to make it for us. A shame as there was some hype for him at one point (I can still vividly recall him smacking the crossbar in his one sub appearance!). Injuries probably haven't helped.

Hopefully can find another loan for the rest of the year, but perhaps he'll be the u23s striker to finish the year if Burns and McBride are going out on loan. Still signed for 2023 and turning 21 in March.

Good summation. Yeh I should think he will be the u23 striker again to get his rhythm back and provide emergency cover for the first team if we had an injury crisis. As you say, Burns and McBride going on loan, and the u23s occupying bottom spot in the league, suggests Vale won't move again yet. Reckon it's a case of Vale has had his shot, now it's time for the other two to get theirs.

I think short-term loans can be tricky to make an impact. The club knows you won't be there long, so they're tempted to use you as cover unless you hit the ground running (which even top players sometimes fail to do). Not sure how many games he has been available for in his time there, but Halifax have played 21 league games and he has featured in less than half of that. I think there can be a danger for youngsters too, which Mowbray has alluded to, of thinking when they play in the non-professional leagues that they're going to be able to coast it, especially if they've had appearances three tiers higher. It's not the case, especially if you go in with that mentality, as it's competitive, often a different style of game, and the players around you might not be as gifted with their passing and vision. If you're playing stop-start too, it's easy to see how things might not pan out.

He doesn't sound like he has had a shocker there though. Not going to write him off yet at all, though we've had a few goal sensation u23 players in the last few years and most haven't made much impact. The best outcomes so far have probably been Nuttall, who did make some contributions in the first team and also made us a 500k ish profit, and Butterworth.

[bluebruce]

I'm suspecting Burns and McBride will be bench options in their new loan teams. At least until they make enough impact. So I'm not really expecting them to play loads of minutes, but the experience will be valuable in their development. Reckon McBride might need to impress to a reasonable degree though in order to have his extension triggered. Then again, even if he is behind Vale and Burns in the pecking order (which I don't know of course, but Burns has been more prolific this season), it would make sense to me to keep him another year so the other two can try for more productive loans next season.

[rigger]

Are spectators allowed to go to the City game at Brockhall ?

[RoverCanada]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Good summation. Yeh I should think he will be the u23 striker again to get his rhythm back and provide emergency cover for the first team if we had an injury crisis. As you say, Burns and McBride going on loan, and the u23s occupying bottom spot in the league, suggests Vale won't move again yet. Reckon it's a case of Vale has had his shot, now it's time for the other two to get theirs.

I think short-term loans can be tricky to make an impact. The club knows you won't be there long, so they're tempted to use you as cover unless you hit the ground running (which even top players sometimes fail to do). Not sure how many games he has been available for in his time there, but Halifax have played 21 league games and he has featured in less than half of that. I think there can be a danger for youngsters too, which Mowbray has alluded to, of thinking when they play in the non-professional leagues that they're going to be able to coast it, especially if they've had appearances three tiers higher. It's not the case, especially if you go in with that mentality, as it's competitive, often a different style of game, and the players around you might not be as gifted with their passing and vision. If you're playing stop-start too, it's easy to see how things might not pan out.

He doesn't sound like he has had a shocker there though. Not going to write him off yet at all, though we've had a few goal sensation u23 players in the last few years and most haven't made much impact. The best outcomes so far have probably been Nuttall, who did make some contributions in the first team and also made us a 500k ish profit, and Butterworth.

Yeah, I think he had some injuries during his time at Halifax too. Otherwise, seemed he was at least a regular in the squad when healthy. So, certainly not a 'failure' of a loan (like, say, Rochdale last year... Magloire also struggled at Rochdale! Something about that team haha)

Considering he barely played last year (only 45min during his Rochdale loan and 3 u23 starts), maybe an extended run in the u23s to test his fitness to finish the year wouldn't be so bad. Hoping another loan arises, but I think some overestimate how easy it is to find gametime in L1 and L2 squads.

And let's not forget his famous hattrick against Bulgaria's u21s in September 🙂 (seems he's still a regular for the Wales u21s)

Edited January 4, 2022 by RoverCanada

[bluebruce]

52 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

Yeah, I think he had some injuries during his time at Halifax too. Otherwise, seemed he was at least a regular in the squad when healthy. So, certainly not a 'failure' of a loan (like, say, Rochdale last year... Magloire also struggled at Rochdale! Something about that team haha)

Considering he barely played last year (only 45min during his Rochdale loan and 3 u23 starts), maybe an extended run in the u23s to test his fitness to finish the year wouldn't be so bad. Hoping another loan arises, but I think some overestimate how easy it is to find gametime in L1 and L2 squads.

And let's not forget his famous hattrick against Bulgaria's u21s in September 🙂 (seems he's still a regular for the Wales u21s)

Ahh knowing he had injuries paints a clearer picture. Wasn't the problem for Vale at Rochdale something to do with covid getting the games cancelled for a while just after he arrived? Or am I thinking of a different player/loan?

[briansol]

58 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Ahh knowing he had injuries paints a clearer picture. Wasn't the problem for Vale at Rochdale something to do with covid getting the games cancelled for a while just after he arrived? Or am I thinking of a different player/loan?

I think they cancelled the season right after he went there.

Always been a fan of Vale, but I think he is a confidence player. Think I read an interview when he was younger that the coaches was working with his belief in his own ability.

Attribute-wise he's probably been the most rounded striker for the U23 over the last years. Can hold the ball up, good pace and go past people. He's surely going to have a professional career, but similar to Butterworth at an age they need to kick on. 

Probably looking at a new loan for him, U23 will not do much for his development, also the Academy is looking to expose more of the U18 like Harry Leonard in the U23's

[bluebruce]

3 minutes ago, briansol said:

I think they cancelled the season right after he went there.

Always been a fan of Vale, but I think he is a confidence player. Think I read an interview when he was younger that the coaches was working with his belief in his own ability.

Attribute-wise he's probably been the most rounded striker for the U23 over the last years. Can hold the ball up, good pace and go past people. He's surely going to have a professional career, but similar to Butterworth at an age they need to kick on. 

Probably looking at a new loan for him, U23 will not do much for his development, also the Academy is looking to expose more of the U18 like Harry Leonard in the U23's

As much as I agree it would be good for his progression to go on loan, we are in danger of the u23s being relegated which would have a detrimental effect on the development of the whole youth squad.

Leonard can still be brought through without needing to play for the u23s every game. He sounds talented but probably not the time to make him the only real forward the u23s have. If they were comfortably midtable it would be different.

[briansol]

17 hours ago, bluebruce said:

As much as I agree it would be good for his progression to go on loan, we are in danger of the u23s being relegated which would have a detrimental effect on the development of the whole youth squad.

Leonard can still be brought through without needing to play for the u23s every game. He sounds talented but probably not the time to make him the only real forward the u23s have. If they were comfortably midtable it would be different.

Very much agree with the importance of keeping the U23 in the top division. They have really suffered for letting Pike, Burns and Vale go on loan this autumn couple with injuries to key players. They might Vale around for the U23 as well as backup option for the first team in case of injuries. 

Expecting to see Costello and Dack featuring some matches for the U23. Could help on result, although sometimes it's more distrupting.

[roversfan99]

The question though is whether it is fair/moral to keep anyone at the club purely to predominantly keep the under 23s in a certain league when it could cost theme 6 huge months of senior football at a key point in their development? I am not sure that it is fair on Vale for example who may not make it here therefore could do with a productive loan spell in the lower leagues to try and make a career for himself.

[rigger]

From what I have seen this season, I don't think it matters that much which league the U23s are playing in. What is important is if the players can show whether they have the quality to play for the first team. 

[Spartakfenni]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

From what I have seen this season, I don't think it matters that much which league the U23s are playing in. What is important is if the players can show whether they have the quality to play for the first team. 

Hopefully if the u23’s get relegated the u18’s will step up to the mark and the u23’s bounce back.

[bluebruce]

Dack won't play against City, according to LT, too soon. JRC expected to.

[Guest]

Supporters can attend down at the JTC. With Brown playing I can imagine JRC might play wide or as a 10.

[briansol]

U18 game vs United was just cancelled after the teams were ready for kick off. Emergency services was not present and delayed + watery pitch.

8 pounds wasted on ManU TV 🙂

Edited January 8, 2022 by briansol

[arbitro]

7 minutes ago, briansol said:

U18 game vs United was just cancelled after the teams were ready for kick off. Emergency services was not present and delayed + watery pitch.

8 pounds wasted on ManU TV 🙂

I'm sure an under 18's match was abandoned at half time recently because of no emergency services being present.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I'm sure an under 18's match was abandoned at half time recently because of no emergency services being present.

how and why was it allowed to start then? Or did Emergency Services get a call and had to leave?

[arbitro]

5 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

how and why was it allowed to start then? Or did Emergency Services get a call and had to leave?

It was never officially confirmed (maybe out of embarrassment) but the rumour was there was never an ambulance there in the first place and nobody noticed until half time. 

[Guest]

Resting a few of the 18’s who’ve been given 23’s games in recent games tomorrow. Saving them for Wednesday’s FA Youth Cup game.

Does anyone know where they’re playing this FAYC game against Stoke?

[rigger]

28 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Resting a few of the 18’s who’ve been given 23’s games in recent games tomorrow. Saving them for Wednesday’s FA Youth Cup game.

Does anyone know where they’re playing this FAYC game against Stoke?

It's at Leyland