Academy & U21s

[rigger]

10 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Billy Barr's U23 side that did so well last year, outdoing Mowbray, in a way, by successfully playing 4-3-3 to compete with the Premiership U23s is in danger of sinking without trace, as it were. It's as if they did too well last year.

Star man from that year, McBride, with 12 goals, I think, and nominated for player of the year, alongside players like Cole Palmer of City, was in demand for loans last summer and now finds himself on loan at Queen's Park. His contract is said to expire this summer, so it's not clear the club will keep him.

When the first team needed a forward in the midst of our injury crisis, Mowbray turned to our new full back, Zeefuik, to play as a forward. Ayala did a stint there too.

I think Mowbray is making a mistake by not giving some of these young players chances, especially, when others are injured. Surely, Zeefuik shouldn't be starting as a forward ahead of our young U23 forwards who have been playing at that level for a few years?

It raises, again, the point of having an U23 side, if there isn't meaningful opportunities for promotion. I feel that it'll be a mistake to let McBride go this summer without having tried to integrate him with the firsts but time will tell.

Should Hedges have a recurrence of his early season hamstring injury and a few others be unavailable, we will be scratching around again.

 

 

I think the clearing of the decks out on loans, at U23 level is to allow the lads at U18 to progress. Perhaps the people running the acadamy think some of the U18s have a better chance of eventually making the first team. I would trust them to make the right decissions. They have done so far.

[only2garners]

13 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Billy Barr's U23 side that did so well last year, outdoing Mowbray, in a way, by successfully playing 4-3-3 to compete with the Premiership U23s is in danger of sinking without trace, as it were. It's as if they did too well last year.

Star man from that year, McBride, with 12 goals, I think, and nominated for player of the year, alongside players like Cole Palmer of City, was in demand for loans last summer and now finds himself on loan at Queen's Park. His contract is said to expire this summer, so it's not clear the club will keep him.

When the first team needed a forward in the midst of our injury crisis, Mowbray turned to our new full back, Zeefuik, to play as a forward. Ayala did a stint there too.

I think Mowbray is making a mistake by not giving some of these young players chances, especially, when others are injured. Surely, Zeefuik shouldn't be starting as a forward ahead of our young U23 forwards who have been playing at that level for a few years?

It raises, again, the point of having an U23 side, if there isn't meaningful opportunities for promotion. I feel that it'll be a mistake to let McBride go this summer without having tried to integrate him with the firsts but time will tell.

Should Hedges have a recurrence of his early season hamstring injury and a few others be unavailable, we will be scratching around again.

 

 

Eh? At one stage on Saturday there were 7 Academy players on the pitch at Luton. Even with that level of success most players coming through will not make it at Championship level, so inevitably players move on. Many will make a career lower down the pyramid, the odd one will go right to the top and a few will hopefully form the core of our first team as they are now, helping us to compete with teams with much bigger financial resources.

The current under 18 crop are looking very promising right now.

[briansol]

14 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Billy Barr's U23 side that did so well last year, outdoing Mowbray, in a way, by successfully playing 4-3-3 to compete with the Premiership U23s is in danger of sinking without trace, as it were. It's as if they did too well last year.

Star man from that year, McBride, with 12 goals, I think, and nominated for player of the year, alongside players like Cole Palmer of City, was in demand for loans last summer and now finds himself on loan at Queen's Park. His contract is said to expire this summer, so it's not clear the club will keep him.

When the first team needed a forward in the midst of our injury crisis, Mowbray turned to our new full back, Zeefuik, to play as a forward. Ayala did a stint there too.

I think Mowbray is making a mistake by not giving some of these young players chances, especially, when others are injured. Surely, Zeefuik shouldn't be starting as a forward ahead of our young U23 forwards who have been playing at that level for a few years?

It raises, again, the point of having an U23 side, if there isn't meaningful opportunities for promotion. I feel that it'll be a mistake to let McBride go this summer without having tried to integrate him with the firsts but time will tell.

Should Hedges have a recurrence of his early season hamstring injury and a few others be unavailable, we will be scratching around again.

 

 

You make a good case regarding the obvious success of the U23 last term and progressing them to senior football. I did watch quite a few games, and I would probably say that team was a better then the individual parts. Unlike Buckley, who was a standout player in each game, it was more team effort with some good individual performances. 

McBride did well, but has regressed a bit this season, although finding some form lately. He need some senior experience, but doesn't look ready for the Championship yet. Jack Vale is in a similar situation. Equally with Sam Burns who is on loan at Scunthorpe. 

Jake Garrett is the obvious candidate from last season who I think we'll see more of this season.

Mowbray recently mentioned that there was no point in bloating the squad when he Phillips, Garrett and Adam Wharton he could fill the bench with and save 5 mill quid. 

 

[darrenrover]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

I think the clearing of the decks out on loans, at U23 level is to allow the lads at U18 to progress. Perhaps the people running the acadamy think some of the U18s have a better chance of eventually making the first team. I would trust them to make the right decissions. They have done so far.

Bob on rigger with that appraisal.

The lads got a lesson though against City, which won't do them any harm in the slightest!

[bluebruce]

6 hours ago, rigger said:

I think the clearing of the decks out on loans, at U23 level is to allow the lads at U18 to progress. Perhaps the people running the acadamy think some of the U18s have a better chance of eventually making the first team. I would trust them to make the right decissions. They have done so far.

The issue there is the real risk of relegation, which would see those same u18s competing at a weaker level next season. That won't be good for development. But I'm fine with the loans out we have made (except Carter, I think that was foolish given our first team squad needs, albeit good for Carter himself).

[rigger]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

The issue there is the real risk of relegation, which would see those same u18s competing at a weaker level next season. That won't be good for development. But I'm fine with the loans out we have made (except Carter, I think that was foolish given our first team squad needs, albeit good for Carter himself).

At U23 level it doesn't really matter what league the team is in. It is all about individual progress, and finding which players are capable of playing for the first team. The U18 players would still be competing against U23 opposition.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

At U23 level it doesn't really matter what league the team is in. It is all about individual progress, and finding which players are capable of playing for the first team. The U18 players would still be competing against U23 opposition.

I have to disagree. Of course the individual progress etc is what matters, but I can't see how that isn't affected by playing against worse teams than in the PL2. Pretty sure even the u23 manager at the time was talking about how the harder league was bringing players along better when we got back into it a couple of seasons ago. It's also easier for senior management to be confident in them taking the step up if the youth level they've played at is at least the most competitive youth level there is.

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I have to disagree. Of course the individual progress etc is what matters, but I can't see how that isn't affected by playing against worse teams than in the PL2. Pretty sure even the u23 manager at the time was talking about how the harder league was bringing players along better when we got back into it a couple of seasons ago. It's also easier for senior management to be confident in them taking the step up if the youth level they've played at is at least the most competitive youth level there is.

The main difference between the U23s and the first team, is physicality, or as a lot of people say, the difference between a boys and a mans game. The skills and abilities are already in the players, and will be evident no matter who the opposition is.

[Sparks Rover]

Frankie McKevoy named Heart academy director at Hearts....that's a joke. @JoeHany comments...🤣 everyone I know at the nobbers reckon he's a complete old dinosaur..

Dolans isn't my favourite buy frankie must have been part of that decision.....

Edited February 3, 2022 by Sparks Rover

[Polky]

 

[briansol]

18 minutes ago, BRFC_Polky said:

 

Phillips will have many admirers. Probably the biggest talent for this club at that age in decades.

Only 16, capped at England u17, singled out by Mowbray on multiple occasions. Thinks he's training with seniors on permanent basis as well. Was captain for the U23! last match. Has height, power, pace and composure which is everything you need in a centre-back. 

It's reported that he has a "pre-contract" or what you call it, similar to what Bellingham had at Bham, since you can't sign professional terms untill 17. However if he continues his development I suspect he's not long for this club, even on a contract. 

[rigger]

17 minutes ago, briansol said:

Phillips will have many admirers. Probably the biggest talent for this club at that age in decades.

Only 16, capped at England u17, singled out by Mowbray on multiple occasions. Thinks he's training with seniors on permanent basis as well. Was captain for the U23! last match. Has height, power, pace and composure which is everything you need in a centre-back. 

It's reported that he has a "pre-contract" or what you call it, similar to what Bellingham had at Bham, since you can't sign professional terms untill 17. However if he continues his development I suspect he's not long for this club, even on a contract. 

To keep him the management have to sell the club to him. It needs to be pointed out to him, that he has a better chance of getting first team football at the Rovers than at any other club. Perhaps get Markanday to tell him why he left Spurs for us.

[Exiled_Rover]

On 28/01/2022 at 11:08, oldjamfan1 said:

Its happened to a few who broke through at ridiculously early ages; off the top of my head I can think of Michael Owen and Norman Whiteside who were both goosed by the time they were 30. Giggs is the obvious exception to that rule I suppose.

Rooney was a grown man at 16. He then player a tremendous amount of senior football for 14 years.

Owen's hamstrings went for the same reason - albeit he was a frailer build.

[47er]

16 hours ago, rigger said:

To keep him the management have to sell the club to him. 

and pay him the wage his talents will attract elsewhere. That's where the problem will arise.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

and pay him the wage his talents will attract elsewhere. That's where the problem will arise.

It depends on the players attitude. Some are money driven, others are driven by playing at the highest level they can. We shall see in the future into which camp Phillips falls. 

[Atko's Engine]

U23s 3 up after 30 mins; Vale, Phillips & .......

.................

Dack the scorers!

[neophox]

Dack!!!

 

[neophox]

Phillips is fifth choice centre half.

[Atko's Engine]

4-0 now, Vale with his 2nd just before HT.

[because of boxing day]

Surprised to see Vale in team tonight given the short number of strikers for tomorrow and the cocerns that BBD  may succumb to his recent exertions.

Game over so give him the early hook and a fast car to South Wales for a bench spot tomorrow,

[OsloRover]

Vale hat trick again, 5-0.

Lots of great prospects in this side. Brown looks close to first team involvement to me.

[Atko's Engine]

Vale now has his hatrick, & Brennan hss scored too. 6-0, 25 mins left

[Ossydave]

So back to back hattys for Vale now, surely jes knocking on the door of the first team bench at least? 

[mr bishi]

28 minutes ago, OsloRover said:

Vale hat trick again, 5-0.

Lots of great prospects in this side. Brown looks close to first team involvement to me.

Does he look capable of handling his own at a higher level. Brown that is.

Edited February 4, 2022 by mr bishi

[RV Blue]

Wharton is classy, think him and Trav would complement each other well.