Academy & U21s

[darrenrover]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Difficult to say.  Johnson and Dunn have been working with these players for two seasons now and before that these lads played together at Under-18 and Under-16 levels and so know each other's game particularly well.  The last twelve months has seen a tremendous improvement in the quality of football that these lads play but it hasn't happened overnight.  It's been a process which has taken time but is now reaping the dividends of that patience.  Would supporters be prepared to wait for another twelve months whilst Johnson and Dunny worked a similar approach with senior players?  In the long term I believe Johnson and Dunn will be an excellent management team - much like Kenny and Ray - as they compliment each other so well.

bring it on, I'd say. Our first team is currently appalling.

[AllRoverAsia]

An interesting article on the Academy system and compensation fees:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/41839083

[Vinjay]

5 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Difficult to say.  Johnson and Dunn have been working with these players for two seasons now and before that these lads played together at Under-18 and Under-16 levels and so know each other's game particularly well.  The last twelve months has seen a tremendous improvement in the quality of football that these lads play but it hasn't happened overnight.  It's been a process which has taken time but is now reaping the dividends of that patience.  Would supporters be prepared to wait for another twelve months whilst Johnson and Dunny worked a similar approach with senior players?  In the long term I believe Johnson and Dunn will be an excellent management team - much like Kenny and Ray - as they compliment each other so well.

Shouldn't be laughing really. What an unbelievable insult to Ray Harford that is. Nothing against Johnson but that's an extreme comparison.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Vinjay17

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

Shouldn't be laughing really. What an unbelievable insult to Ray Harford that is. Nothing against Johnson but that's an extreme comparison.

No sure what you are on about.  Nobody is talking about their coaching abilities - neither is at Ray's level yet - but merely that two individuals compliment each other in terms of different personalities that work when put together.  

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

Shouldn't be laughing really. What an unbelievable insult to Ray Harford that is. Nothing against Johnson but that's an extreme comparison.

Give it a rest Vinjay. You bored of City now. Haha

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'll be going on Tuesday to watch the game at Rochdale. I can't wait to see some of these lads play. If it was the usual first team I'm not so sure I'd be bothering. 

Any of these young players seriously knocking on the door Parson  ?  Of course they'll find it really difficult getting in given the scintillating form of the senior players ! 

I like how they function as a team in spite of the chopping and changing caused by the first team call ups. It's really difficult being a reserve team manager most of the time for that reason.

[Parsonblue]

28 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'll be going on Tuesday to watch the game at Rochdale. I can't wait to see some of these lads play. If it was the usual first team I'm not so sure I'd be bothering. 

Any of these young players seriously knocking on the door Parson  ?  Of course they'll find it really difficult getting in given the scintillating form of the senior players ! 

I like how they function as a team in spite of the chopping and changing caused by the first team call ups. It's really difficult being a reserve team manager most of the time for that reason.

Lewis Travis and Jack Doyle are two to keep an eye on.  Both can play full-back or wide midfield.  Tomlinson and Hardcastle are developing into pretty decent midfielders and Fisher is another really good prospect in goal.  Nuttall of course has that golden knack of being in the right place at the right time to score - he looks a natural in that position.   In truth these players simply come together as a team with everyone knowing their role and executing it.  When players are missing, other lads seem to come and the team continues to play the same way without any disruption.  It's the complete opposite of the first team.  Callum Wright is one of the younger end and is starting to look very good - scored an absolute screamer last night.  To be honest Tyrone I much prefer watching this side that Johnson and Dunny are running to the seniors.  Even if we don't win you know you'll be entertained with fast, flowing football.

[RV Blue]

31 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'll be going on Tuesday to watch the game at Rochdale. I can't wait to see some of these lads play. If it was the usual first team I'm not so sure I'd be bothering. 

Any of these young players seriously knocking on the door Parson  ?  Of course they'll find it really difficult getting in given the scintillating form of the senior players ! 

I like how they function as a team in spite of the chopping and changing caused by the first team call ups. It's really difficult being a reserve team manager most of the time for that reason.

The problem is that Mowbray will be managing them on Tuesday. In the last two Checkatrade games, the u23s that have played in them haven't looked anywhere near as good as they look for the u23s (not that they were any worse than the first team players). I put this down to Mowbray doing absolutely no work on the tactics for these games, which means that the u23s don't really know what their roles are, whereas Johnson looks like he meticulously works on tactics before each game, so the players know exactly what they are supposed to do. Don't be surprised if you come away disappointed on Tuesday.

[47er]

25 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Lewis Travis and Jack Doyle are two to keep an eye on.  Both can play full-back or wide midfield.  Tomlinson and Hardcastle are developing into pretty decent midfielders and Fisher is another really good prospect in goal.  Nuttall of course has that golden knack of being in the right place at the right time to score - he looks a natural in that position.   In truth these players simply come together as a team with everyone knowing their role and executing it.  When players are missing, other lads seem to come and the team continues to play the same way without any disruption.  It's the complete opposite of the first team.  Callum Wright is one of the younger end and is starting to look very good - scored an absolute screamer last night.  To be honest Tyrone I much prefer watching this side that Johnson and Dunny are running to the seniors.  Even if we don't win you know you'll be entertained with fast, flowing football.

That is a severe criticism of the first-team manager. Yet you want him to stay!

[Tom]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

No sure what you are on about.  Nobody is talking about their coaching abilities - neither is at Ray's level yet - but merely that two individuals compliment each other in terms of different personalities that work when put together.  

Vinjay has a severe dislike of Mr Dunn so it comes from a place of bias 

[Parsonblue]

14 minutes ago, 47er said:

That is a severe criticism of the first-team manager. Yet you want him to stay!

Not really as we are not comparing like with like.  Under-23 football is about developing individual players in the hope that one or two are good enough to make the grade.  Results at this level, in many ways, are secondary.  First team football is all about results and not performances.  This season promotion is the goal.  Doesn't matter whether it is through the automatic places or via the play-offs.  At the moment we are still in the hunt for both.  I admit that I'm no great fan of the turgid approach that we seem to have adopted this season - the backwards & sideways passing is awful.  Will most people care about that if we go up - not in the slightest.  If we don't go up then the manager will, by his own admission, in all probability not be here next season.

[Vinjay]

19 minutes ago, Tom said:

Vinjay has a severe dislike of Mr Dunn so it comes from a place of bias 

It also comes from him being as dumb as a box of rocks. That's before I even get started on his other faults. He failed at Oldham which was so obvious I regret not placing a large bet on it.

What else was I supposed to assume it was other than a coaching comparison? I'm sure the people emptying my bins have some teamwork qualities but what has it got to do with football management? Not taking a dig at Johnson who may well be a prospect. Everyone has to start somewhere after all and it wouldn't shock me if he was given the chance in the event of Mowbray being sacked.  

Please don't mention his coaching badges as vindication especially when "Steve" helped him along. Do you ever hear of anyone failing those courses because I don't. They sound like a kids thing at school where everyone gets a prize.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Vinjay17

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Lewis Travis and Jack Doyle are two to keep an eye on.  Both can play full-back or wide midfield.  Tomlinson and Hardcastle are developing into pretty decent midfielders and Fisher is another really good prospect in goal.  Nuttall of course has that golden knack of being in the right place at the right time to score - he looks a natural in that position.   In truth these players simply come together as a team with everyone knowing their role and executing it.  When players are missing, other lads seem to come and the team continues to play the same way without any disruption.  It's the complete opposite of the first team.  Callum Wright is one of the younger end and is starting to look very good - scored an absolute screamer last night.  To be honest Tyrone I much prefer watching this side that Johnson and Dunny are running to the seniors.  Even if we don't win you know you'll be entertained with fast, flowing football.

Cheers for that. I remember seeing Doyle and Tomlinson play for the youth team , they caught my eye as having something about them. I liked their attitude. Having a good attitude will take you a long way in all walks of life, not just football.

[had.e.nuff]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Lewis Travis and Jack Doyle are two to keep an eye on.  Both can play full-back or wide midfield.  Tomlinson and Hardcastle are developing into pretty decent midfielders and Fisher is another really good prospect in goal.  Nuttall of course has that golden knack of being in the right place at the right time to score - he looks a natural in that position.   In truth these players simply come together as a team with everyone knowing their role and executing it.  When players are missing, other lads seem to come and the team continues to play the same way without any disruption.  It's the complete opposite of the first team.  Callum Wright is one of the younger end and is starting to look very good - scored an absolute screamer last night.  To be honest Tyrone I much prefer watching this side that Johnson and Dunny are running to the seniors.  Even if we don't win you know you'll be entertained with fast, flowing football.

Charley Doyle has come on as well this season I like the way he can seamlessly move and slot in any role mid game be it at the back or in midfield, not the finished article yet but looks to be improving this year.

[G Somerset Rover]

Parson, do we have anyone in the Chapman mould who could potentially step up in his absence? Pace and likes to beat a man. Is JRC very quick?

Edited November 4, 2017 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[bob fleming]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

It also comes from him being as dumb as a box of rocks. That's before I even get started on his other faults. He failed at Oldham which was so obvious I regret not placing a large bet on it.

What odds do you think you'll have got? No manager of that club has had any success in recent years. And that's no disrespect to Oldham whatsoever.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Not really as we are not comparing like with like.  Under-23 football is about developing individual players in the hope that one or two are good enough to make the grade.  Results at this level, in many ways, are secondary.  First team football is all about results and not performances.  This season promotion is the goal.  Doesn't matter whether it is through the automatic places or via the play-offs.  At the moment we are still in the hunt for both.  I admit that I'm no great fan of the turgid approach that we seem to have adopted this season - the backwards & sideways passing is awful.  Will most people care about that if we go up - not in the slightest.  If we don't go up then the manager will, by his own admission, in all probability not be here next season.

...and neither will the good players we have at the club because the largesse shown towards Mowbray this summer won't be repeated next year. It's not as simple as just waiting for this season to play out.

[Vinjay]

25 minutes ago, bob fleming said:

What odds do you think you'll have got? No manager of that club has had any success in recent years. And that's no disrespect to Oldham whatsoever.

Depends if it was based on the first manager to be sacked or not. Of course at that point the season had already started so it would have been "next manager" and probably longer than EVS. As for a standalone bet I'm not sure what odds may have been given.

This season under Magoo I'm not worried about relegation (the summer activity at least spared fans that level of concern for time being) but if Dunn replaced him right now I would be.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Vinjay17

[47er]

10 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Not really as we are not comparing like with like.  Under-23 football is about developing individual players in the hope that one or two are good enough to make the grade.  Results at this level, in many ways, are secondary.  First team football is all about results and not performances.  This season promotion is the goal.  Doesn't matter whether it is through the automatic places or via the play-offs.  At the moment we are still in the hunt for both.  I admit that I'm no great fan of the turgid approach that we seem to have adopted this season - the backwards & sideways passing is awful.  Will most people care about that if we go up - not in the slightest.  If we don't go up then the manager will, by his own admission, in all probability not be here next season.

You sing the praises of the Youth Squad, how attractive the football is, how they all know their role etc etc and go on to say "the complete opposite of the first team" and that's not a severe criticism of the Mowbot? 

[JAL]

23 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Another excellent performance despite a number of regulars missing.  The quality of the football is outstanding and a joy to watch.  Watching this squad of players is so much more entertaining than watching the senior squad.  Watford were totally outplayed in the second half and were fortunate to only concede six.  Johnson and Dunn are doing fantastic work with these players.

If you put David Lowe in charge of the current under 23's how would they perform.

[Stuart]

23 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Not really as we are not comparing like with like.  Under-23 football is about developing individual players in the hope that one or two are good enough to make the grade.  Results at this level, in many ways, are secondary.  First team football is all about results and not performances.  This season promotion is the goal.  Doesn't matter whether it is through the automatic places or via the play-offs.  At the moment we are still in the hunt for both.  I admit that I'm no great fan of the turgid approach that we seem to have adopted this season - the backwards & sideways passing is awful.  Will most people care about that if we go up - not in the slightest.  If we don't go up then the manager will, by his own admission, in all probability not be here next season.

I agree about the enjoyment of matches, and also about the first team being about results. Usually, the enjoyment of first team football comes from results. The excitement of needing the win and scoring the goals to get it. Right now Mowbray is very much hit and miss on results and very much miss on excitement.

Don’t agree that we are in the hunt for automatic promotion though. There is a lot of work to do before we can consider ourselves in the hunt and - much to the frustration of the ‘get real’ apologists - we now need to increase our rate of return on points and very likely win games that some would call difficult.

[mhead]

Nottingham Forest had a change of owners with not too much money. They got in The ex-Brentford/Rangers Manager and have 5 youngsters in the team. As a result there are only 2 non-British players in the team/squad. Is this a Blueprint?!

I was not aware that our Under 23s are less competitive than Forest Under 23s and they are in a higher League as a First team. They are inconsistent but I am told the football is more exciting and the fans are more engaged with the Team. Anyone know more?

[darrenrover]

22 hours ago, Stuart said:

I agree about the enjoyment of matches, and also about the first team being about results. Usually, the enjoyment of first team football comes from results. The excitement of needing the win and scoring the goals to get it. Right now Mowbray is very much hit and miss on results and very much miss on excitement.

Don’t agree that we are in the hunt for automatic promotion though. There is a lot of work to do before we can consider ourselves in the hunt and - much to the frustration of the ‘get real’ apologists - we now need to increase our rate of return on points and very likely win games that some would call difficult.

The only way to get us back in the hunt is by playing a more expansive, pressing game, positive mentality and attack with purpose, power and pace. Sadly we don't appear to have the players in the first team squad with any of the required attributes to do so. Are they lurking in the development squad perhaps?

[47er]

22 hours ago, Stuart said:

I agree about the enjoyment of matches, and also about the first team being about results. Usually, the enjoyment of first team football comes from results. The excitement of needing the win and scoring the goals to get it. Right now Mowbray is very much hit and miss on results and very much miss on excitement.

Don’t agree that we are in the hunt for automatic promotion though. There is a lot of work to do before we can consider ourselves in the hunt and - much to the frustration of the ‘get real’ apologists - we now need to increase our rate of return on points and very likely win games that some would call difficult.

I agree. I can't see how anyone could seriously think we could make one of the two automatic promotion positions from here. Its a toss-up as to whether we'll finish 6th or 5th or miss out altogether

A dramatic turn round in performance would be needed to do better and does not look forth-coming.

[AllRoverAsia]

On 07/10/2017 at 01:24, speeeeeeedie said:

Here's an interesting article in the Guardian regarding club youth players; https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Fiver+2016&utm_term=246909&subid=6923483&CMP=EMCFTBEML853#comment-106370893

It mentions Huddersfield who have indeed scrapped their u8-u16 set up. They did an extensive review and found that the last person who played in those age groups for Huddersfield who then went on to play in the Premier League was Rovers own Jon Stead, in 1999.

Relating this to Rovers, I don't see how the club can keep funding a cat 1 academy that isn't producing players. No manager installed at Ewood would be willing to bring up youngsters, they want proven players who are known commodities.

 

I have only just seen the above David Conn article and the following.

A sobering read with many boys kept within the Academy system just to 'make up the numbers' and almost guaranteed to fail.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/10/football-club-academies-rejection-boys

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/10/howard-wilkinson-review-academy-system

Edited November 8, 2017 by AllRoverAsia