Academy & U21s

[SkipDonoghue]

Just now, Stuart said:

He dropped Nuttall ages ago, and Tomlinson even sooner. You and I both know Travis should be cover for Nyambe and not Bennett.

We have other clubs coveting our youngsters and a forward thinking manager would be making use of them.

What happens next season (hopefully) in the Championship? “It’s too big a step up” will be the excuse made on behalf of Mowbray by people who have never seen our young lads play. Yet they are routinely beating other PL teams’ U23s. This is meant to be a ‘premier’ competition - albeit at reserve level. We are the only L1 club to have U23s in it (and winning Div 2) and yet cannot produce any L1 players. That’s down to Mowbray. Johnson is keeping up his part of the deal, Mowbray is turning a blind eye. Made worse by the fact that he regularly watches them!

Not only watches them but raves about how good they are

Apparently TM has already told some of the younger players that he can’t play them over “his lads” and by this I mean players he has paid money for, the Nuttall and Samuel situation is a prime example of this, Nuttall would have to be smashing in goal after goal for the 1st team every time he got a chance to be involved before Samuel....it’s a double edged sword how can TM go to the Venkys and ask for money for new signings if the ones he has brought in are being leapfrogged by academy players, it’s a tricky situation and one we all should be able to appreciate even if it is a little frustrating 

[Mattyblue]

Then on the flip side, the owners may think why keep a Cat 1 Academy going?

Though, these days a lot of managers may think; why do long term planning/take a risk, i.e blooding youngsters in a promotion hunting campaign when they’re a run of bad results from the sack?

Edited April 10, 2018 by Mattyblue

[arbitro]

I just want the best players out there every game irrespective of age. Our bench on Saturday didn't inspire me in the slightest.

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

Not only watches them but raves about how good they are

Apparently TM has already told some of the younger players that he can’t play them over “his lads” and by this I mean players he has paid money for, the Nuttall and Samuel situation is a prime example of this, Nuttall would have to be smashing in goal after goal for the 1st team every time he got a chance to be involved before Samuel....it’s a double edged sword how can TM go to the Venkys and ask for money for new signings if the ones he has brought in are being leapfrogged by academy players, it’s a tricky situation and one we all should be able to appreciate even if it is a little frustrating 

“His lads” - he doesnt help himself does he?!

We are going to miss out on some of these young players when it comes to contract renewal. There are so many scouts down at the County Ground now it’s ridiculous.

It just seems to have been a nice ‘pet team’ for Mowbray to have this season. Next season he needs to be sending out some of these lads on loan to get some experience. Although Tomlinson, Nuttall and Travis are ready now. What is he going to do with them?

Magloire and Grayson will be the next ones.

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Then on the flip side, the owners may think why keep a Cat A Academy going?

Though, these days a lot of managers may think; why do long term planning/take a risk, i.e blooding youngsters in a promotion hunting campaign when they’re a run of bad results from the sack?

May as well shut all of the academies down on that basis.

A promotion campaign is exactly the time to blood some of them because they will benefit from playing with good players who are high on confidence. Certainly won’t be the right time in a relegation battle.

Even worse is when managers stick two or three out with a second string side in the cup competitions. The players get nothing but expected to outperform their peers and the manager learns nothing about a makeshift side.

[Mattyblue]

Oh I agree, but you can certainly see WHY managers stick to ‘proven pros’, the stakes are that high for managers these days.

If Mowbray had flopped this season, that was probably it for him at a decent level - and the earning power etc that goes with it.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Mattyblue

[arbitro]

33 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Then on the flip side, the owners may think why keep a Cat 1 Academy going?

Though, these days a lot of managers may think; why do long term planning/take a risk, i.e blooding youngsters in a promotion hunting campaign when they’re a run of bad results from the sack?

Last season a relegation scrap, this season a promotion challenge and another potential relegation scrap next season. According to Mowbrays logic that could be three seasons without any of these talented kids being given a real opportunity to become a first team regular. And meanwhile the squad is bolstered by the likes of Caddis, Whittingham, Samuel and the guy who thinks he is better than Dack.

[47er]

Posters on this page should be warned that it is dangerously unpatriotic to make "negative" claims about TM! 

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

He dropped Nuttall ages ago, and Tomlinson even sooner. You and I both know Travis should be cover for Nyambe and not Bennett.

We have other clubs coveting our youngsters and a forward thinking manager would be making use of them.

What happens next season (hopefully) in the Championship? “It’s too big a step up” will be the excuse made on behalf of Mowbray by people who have never seen our young lads play. Yet they are routinely beating other PL teams’ U23s. This is meant to be a ‘premier’ competition - albeit at reserve level. We are the only L1 club to have U23s in it (and winning Div 2) and yet cannot produce any L1 players. That’s down to Mowbray. Johnson is keeping up his part of the deal, Mowbray is turning a blind eye. Made worse by the fact that he regularly watches them!

Nuttall, whilst full of potential, has looked somewhat raw at times at senior level and is certainly not going to be ahead of Graham.  Tomlinson, of course, had an alarming drop of form earlier in the season but has improved in recent months.  I agree that I would have Travis on the bench at the moment but with Evans and Smallwood playing well in the centre of midfield, Bennett is able to do an excellent job as an attacking full-back, particularly in away games when he is afford the room to break.  We have some excellent lads in the centre of defence but they aren't going to replace Mulgrew, Lenihan or Downing at the moment.  The fact that Mowbray is giving these lads extended contracts shows that he sees a future for them at the club.   

[Parsonblue]

7 minutes ago, 47er said:

Posters on this page should be warned that it is dangerously unpatriotic to make "negative" claims about TM! 

Or have the temerity to have a different opinion to 47er

[47er]

13 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Or have the temerity to have a different opinion to 47er

Bit rude! Anyway I thought all views were welcome!

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Nuttall, whilst full of potential, has looked somewhat raw at times at senior level and is certainly not going to be ahead of Graham.

...but he should be ahead of Samuel, who has been a huge disappointment.  However, Mowbray spent big money on one of them and the other was signed by Johnson so Nuttall won't get a look in. It's also explains Whittingham's bizarre shoehorning into the side early season when it made no tactical sense.

The interests of the club should come before Mowbray's pride. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

...but he should be ahead of Samuel, who has been a huge disappointment.  However, Mowbray spent big money on one of them and the other was signed by Johnson so Nuttall won't get a look in. It's also explains Whittingham's bizarre shoehorning into the side early season when it made no tactical sense.

The interests of the club should come before Mowbray's pride. 

I think the plan was to play with wing backs and Whittingham playing as a sort of " Tugay " style playmaker picking the ball up off the three centre backs. When that didn't work out there was no room for him in a 4-4-2 formation. He's not the first player to get to the " season too far " point in their career and he won't be the last. Trouble is we've got to keep paying him for another season. One or two of us said so at the time  but we were told to get with the plan.

[47er]

Serious question Parson----do you think we will be able to hang on to our most talented youth unless TM changes his approach?

They won't want to go into their twenties will they, without being given regular games?

What's the point of having an academy if its products are able to walk away for peanuts?

Fair enough, he can use the reason that its vital we go up this season but suppose , as others have said, next season he says we can't play them because we are in danger of relegation ?

We'll lose them won't we? A number of questions for you, please don't say it was ever thus will you??!!!

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

We have signed loads of them on extended contracts, Mowbray obviously sees futures for them here. We need to go up this season first and foremost. Seniors and under 23s going well. Keep calm people 

[G Somerset Rover]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

That as maybe, but whats the rush to get a practically untested into the side/squad, in the last 6 pressure cooker games of a promotion push, when the team is winning games?

Surely let him finish what hes doing for the u23s, then integrate him over pre season.

I get what you're saying, but two words: Paul Caddis. It must be very demoralising for him to see that guy in front of him.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Posters on this page should be warned that it is dangerously unpatriotic to make "negative" claims about TM! 

Im the first to get annoyed when people try to deride others by taking their criticisms out of context as some kind of attempt at spreading an agenda or whatever. But I personally think, and seemingly others echo this, that in a season and at a time where know how, consistency and mental strength is key, experience tends to trump youth.

38 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

...but he should be ahead of Samuel, who has been a huge disappointment.  However, Mowbray spent big money on one of them and the other was signed by Johnson so Nuttall won't get a look in. It's also explains Whittingham's bizarre shoehorning into the side early season when it made no tactical sense.

The interests of the club should come before Mowbray's pride. 

I think this is unfair. Whittingham for 1 example, hasnt played a minute i dont think even since hes been fit, hes obviously a good player but for various reasons hes not hit the form of previous heights and seemingly Evans has over taken him. I dont rate Samuel but both him and Nuttall for me have been equally ineffective when theyve played, so not sure if Nuttall can feel that hard done by.

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I get what you're saying, but two words: Paul Caddis. It must be very demoralising for him to see that guy in front of him.

To be fair to Caddis hes a steady eddie and has never let us down. His experience of these situations for other clubs may give him the nod over a promising defender last seen showing indiscipline. Theres no rush and im sure he will play a bigger part next year.

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Nuttall, whilst full of potential, has looked somewhat raw at times at senior level and is certainly not going to be ahead of Graham.  Tomlinson, of course, had an alarming drop of form earlier in the season but has improved in recent months.  I agree that I would have Travis on the bench at the moment but with Evans and Smallwood playing well in the centre of midfield, Bennett is able to do an excellent job as an attacking full-back, particularly in away games when he is afford the room to break.  We have some excellent lads in the centre of defence but they aren't going to replace Mulgrew, Lenihan or Downing at the moment.  The fact that Mowbray is giving these lads extended contracts shows that he sees a future for them at the club.   

Bit naughty that pb. Nobody mentioned Graham but Nuttall was ahead of Samuel at the time and on the face was dropped for political reasons rather than form. ‘Can’t be seen to be dropping a player I’ve bought’.

[chaddyrovers]

18 hours ago, Stuart said:

Really enjoyable match tonight. Excellent team performance with  LewisTravis and Stefan Mols the real stand outs; Mols getting a goal on his first game back after injury - much to the delight of his personal fan club / family.

2-0 win and now only a point needed to win the title. Hopefully we can ack Ewood next week (we’ll the JW lower anyway) and see them over the line.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/april/u23s-report-newcastle-h/

great to see the under 23's playing so well and performing. 

17 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Surely Travis needs integrating back into the first team fold now. Kid will have learnt his lesson.

agreed

16 hours ago, Stuart said:

Both he and Nuttall (who scored our second tonight) seem to have been unceremoniously dumped from the first team this season. How Mowbray treats our young lads has been nearly as frustrating as his tinkering with the line up.

He has certainly put Nuttall’s development back, and for what? To keep Samuel happy? Dropping him after his first spell dented his confidence - perhaps Mowbray thinks he doesn’t work hard enough but I’m not sure Samuel’s work rate has been great either and Nuttall had been in fine scoring firm at the time.

Likewise Travis. Yes, he overstepped the mark (once) but Mowbray has weakened our midfield in order to make a point to young Lewis by playing Bennett out of position instead of him - during an injury crisis and with a career rb who he also doesn’t trust. Presumably because of that rash challenge. Hardly a crime. Maybe he is being especially harsh to send a message but I’m not sure what the message is. He just seems to prefer his own men.

Even Tomlinson has been largely overlooked after a cracking debut last season.

It’s a testament to what Johnson and Dunn have built that they will almost certainly win the league by utilising a style of play and an attacking ethos - mixed with a real desire and even aggression - which can withstand Mowbray’s occasional dabble. Almost seems like the U23s are their own team at times rather than a feeder for the first team. Probably wise for as long as Tony “why spend money on the academy” Mowbray is here.

All that said, it’s the first team league table that matters so as long as TM wins his version then fans can be happy. Long term I just hope we can keep hold of Johnson until TM reaches his expiry date. Because I don’t think he is the man to cultivate, or integrate, our young talent into first team regulars.

I wouldn't say Dumped Stuart tho I can see your point and view. I think Mowbray has gone for experience with these most important games in years for Rovers. we need promotion this season. 

I would like to Travis on the bench at least. 

Yes I agree Stuart that Johnson and Dunn deserve credit for their work at under 23's level. 

I do disagree on Mowbray not integrate them into the 1st team as he has blood Travis and Nuttall this season but he has had to balance blooding youth players whilst having to achieve promotion. 

I would like to see Johnson take over from Mowbray when he does leave here but think it will while yet

15 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Now we've reached the business end of the season I think it's simply a case of Mowbray putting his faith in the more experienced players in the squad rather than untried youth.  Of all the recent managers, I can only remember Mowbray and Gary Bowyer, actively taking the time to go and watch virtually every Under-23 game at home and also take in some away games as well.  I think Mowbray has been one of the more supportive managers of the youth set-up at Ewood.  

was Mowbray there last night? 

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We have signed loads of them on extended contracts, Mowbray obviously sees futures for them here. We need to go up this season first and foremost. Seniors and under 23s going well. Keep calm people 

I agree Mowbray sees Travis, Nuttall, Tomlinson, Wharton are Rovers future. 

[Mike E]

I'll try to get down on Monday

Think (well, hope) TM will look more favourably on playing younger players when promotion/winning the league is more mathematically certain, personally.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

great to see the under 23's playing so well and performing. 

agreed

I wouldn't say Dumped Stuart tho I can see your point and view. I think Mowbray has gone for experience with these most important games in years for Rovers. we need promotion this season. 

I would like to Travis on the bench at least. 

Yes I agree Stuart that Johnson and Dunn deserve credit for their work at under 23's level. 

I do disagree on Mowbray not integrate them into the 1st team as he has blood Travis and Nuttall this season but he has had to balance blooding youth players whilst having to achieve promotion. 

I would like to see Johnson take over from Mowbray when he does leave here but think it will while yet

was Mowbray there last night? 

I agree Mowbray sees Travis, Nuttall, Tomlinson, Wharton are Rovers future. 

Good post Chaddy.

And no, Mowbray wasn’t in his usual perch last night. I expect he was busy preparing the team for tonight’s game.

[chaddyrovers]

U23s: Here's how the sides will line up at Ewood this evening! #Rovers https://t.co/8onc9obBQj

[RoversClitheroe]

Is there a way to watch it online?

[chaddyrovers]

Travis in centre mid with Hardcastle and Tomlinson. 

Buckley and Evans wing backs

Platt, Magloire and Grayson back 3.

Nuttall and Mols up front

Tomlinson goes close with. 3 mins gone

[chaddyrovers]

1 nil down but domainate the game. 

Travis been good. 

Nuttall wanted the ball playing through where he would have 1 on 1 with Keep but Travis played it wide left to Evans. 

1 off the line from Platt header. 

Mols should have test the keeper at worst but blazed over. Probably should have scored